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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Revan vs The Hero of Tython


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Revan vs The Hero of Tython
Started by: Nephthys

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KillaKassara
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps not (or perhaps he did), though he didn't summon a Force storm in his battle with Revan either, so its inconsequential for a comparison between the two.


Yes he did, it was the attack that deepfried Revan, Hero would be crushed by that same attack, if Vitiate wasn't in such a weakened form. That's why it's such a blow to your delusions of grandeur.

quote:
He still had access to Force Lightning, and was powerful enough still to collapse the Dark Temple after his defeat, so whatever.


So what!? Do you know how powerful he was, see: DE Sidious and Darth Nihilus.

quote:
The HoT couldn't afford to spend time resting before confronting Vitiate.


Dooku engaged in a Force battle with Grand Master Yoda not one minute after owning Obi-Wan and Anakin.

quote:
Scourge stressed pointedly that they couldn't give Vitiate time to recover, which resting would do.


It's not the same. Vitiate was preparing to absorb all Biota in the entire freaking galaxy, Hero was brawling Temple guards. Get Hero of Tythoon's wank-juice out of your ears.

quote:
Vitiate also directly says that the Hero has been weakened in getting to him if he rescues Kira/Doc.


So a statement from a treacherous Sith Lord who is known to make another statement about Hero's inability to harness his power is infallible proof?

quote:
Again, if such a small detour (they are literally one room away from the entrance to Vitiate)
He wasn't running into the Emperor's throne room, he was strutting along at a moderate pace, it doesn't take long to regain one's composure.

quote:
depleted the Hero that much, I see no reason why the entire mission wouldn't affect him.


Says the desperate Sith Lord who's in a severely weakened form.

quote:
There doesn't need to be a statement about the Hero being weakened by the temple. The Dark Temple is canonically a potent darkside nexus. Lightsiders are weakned while on a darkside nexus and find it harder to draw on the lightside there.


So was the planet in which Yoda faced Dooku in their second encounter, Yoda was not weakened and he did not have trouble accessing his powers.

quote:
Darksiders can draw on a darkside nexus to increase there own power and we already have evidence indicating Vitiate was drawing on the nexus (else why would he be there?)


We have no idea what Vitiate was doing to prepare for the annihilation of all life in the galaxy.

quote:
No, you dork!


DO NOT WANNA SAY THAT TO MY FAAACEmad

quote:
I told you to just read my profile (by clicking on my name in my posts) for the evidence it was really Vitiates true body, not that Karpyshans twitter post was that proof. I'll just re-post the evidence:

You can check the start of the audio to see that the person talking is a lead writer for TOR.


Yes, a body was destroyed. But was it his original, immortal body? Yet again, there's an absence of evidence. Either way, that's just icing on the cake, as Vitiate was extraordinarily weakened - and the notion that Hero was not weakened is just more of a bonus. Either way, Hero's victory over a most definitely weakened Vitiate is a 100% unquantifiable feat that does not help his case against Revan. His potential might, but there's absolutely zero reason to assume he unlocked it during the events of TOR.

Meetra beat a weakened Nihilus, Hero beat a weakened Vitiate, and pre-JA Luke beat a weakened Sidious.

quote:


Vitiate having black eyes as a baby is irrelevant.


It wasn't just his irises, there were no whites in his eyes, the eyes were a total void. If that's not the result of early dark side corruption I don't know what is. Just like Palpatine being an infant with unnatural strength, or Tenebrae, speaking in a voice unnaturally deep for his age, like Sidious in ROTS.

quote:
You claim to be a star wars fan and you don't even know that the darkside can change a persons eye color?


Naaaaaah

quote:
I'm not paying for TOR at the moment. I'm getting all the pleasure for none of the cost. wink


Oh, but you are still wasting hours and hours on an unproductive MMO game you've already finished to completion (most likely as multiple Imp and Pub classes)???

K.


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Last edited by KillaKassara on Nov 16th, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 09:54 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:00 PM
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Nephthys
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
Yes he did, it was the attack that deepfried Revan, Hero would be crushed by that same attack, if Vitiate wasn't in such a weakened form. That's why it's such a blow to your delusions of grandeur.


That doesn't really count as a Force Storm, but whatever. Who knows, maybe he did use that attack during the fight. Or perhaps the Hero of Tython just wasn't dumb enough to let him charge up his best attack like Revan was.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
So what!? Do you know how powerful he was, see: DE Sidious and Darth Nihilus.


Being able to destroy a huge temple is still pretty damn powerful dude. On those two's levels imo.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
Dooku engaged in a Force battle with Grand Master Yoda not one minute after owning Obi-Wan and Anakin.


So? That doesn't mean he wasn't a bit weakened from his exertion. He does pant a little before Yoda comes in.

Plus Dooku fought two people, whereas the Hero fought through an entire city and a small army of the best soldiers in the galaxy.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
It's not the same. Vitiate was preparing to absorb all Biota in the entire freaking galaxy, Hero was brawling Temple guards. Get Hero of Tythoon's wank-juice out of your ears.


Laugh my freaking ass off!

No, he wasn't. He'd already tried to absorb all the galaxy and failed.

"You’ve learned that the Emperor is on Dromund Kaas, temporarily weakened by your efforts thwarting his plan for galactic annihilation. Striking at him now is your best chance to defeat him once and for all."

He's weakened because he'd already tried to perform that ritual and it didn't work. But he was recovering after that. All throughout the invasion of Dromund Kaas and the attack on the Dark Temple the Emperor was recovering his strength.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
So a statement from a treacherous Sith Lord who is known to make another statement about Hero's inability to harness his power is infallible proof?


I'm not taking it as infallible proof. Merely an indication of what is logically true. A Jedi isn't a god. They get tired from fighting and exhaust their power. The Hero fighting through so many people logically would experience this.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
He wasn't running into the Emperor's throne room, he was strutting along at a moderate pace, it doesn't take long to regain one's composure.


Charging headfirst into the throne room would be idiotic, in case the Emperor prepared for her. Other than that Scourge specifically say sthey have to move as wuickly as possible to prevent the Emperor from regaining his strength.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
Says the desperate Sith Lord who's in a severely weakened form.


That he doesn't say it if you don't go indicates he wasn't just making it up.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
So was the planet in which Yoda faced Dooku in their second encounter, Yoda was not weakened and he did not have trouble accessing his powers.


How do you know Yoda was not weakened a bit? Plus the Dark Temple is much more potent than Vjun.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
We have no idea what Vitiate was doing to prepare for the annihilation of all life in the galaxy.


He wasn't. He was just recovering his strength.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
DO NOT WANNA SAY THAT TO MY FAAACEmad


I'd kick your ass bro. Imma come at you like a spidermonkey!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
Yes, a body was destroyed. But was it his original, immortal body? Yet again, there's an absence of evidence. Either way, that's just icing on the cake, as Vitiate was extraordinarily weakened - and the notion that Hero was not weakened is just more of a bonus. Either way, Hero's victory over a most definitely weakened Vitiate is a 100% unquantifiable feat that does not help his case against Revan. His potential might, but there's absolutely zero reason to assume he unlocked it during the events of TOR.

Meetra beat a weakened Nihilus, Hero beat a weakened Vitiate, and pre-JA Luke beat a weakened Sidious.


Yes, it was him. Confirmed by a lead writer, so no absence of evidence here.

He was also amped by the Dark Temple so it evens out.

The Hero was weakened. And she was probably near her full potential at the end. She was rapidly coming into her power, as is noted by Scourge when he claims that he could have beat her the first time they met, but that she's improved drastically since then (a short amount of time) to the point where she beats him somewhat easily.

After which she also receives training on Vitiates fortress for a lengthy period of time.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
It wasn't just his irises, there were no whites in his eyes, the eyes were a total void. If that's not the result of early dark side corruption I don't know what is. Just like Palpatine being an infant with unnatural strength, or Tenebrae, speaking in a voice unnaturally deep for his age, like Sidious in ROTS.


Proof that Vitiate had no whites? I've never seen that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
Naaaaaah


Yes.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dolos
Oh, but you are still wasting hours and hours on an unproductive MMO game you've already finished to completion (most likely as multiple Imp and Pub classes)???

K.


Naw, I've only finished five of the classes. I still have Trooper, Warrior and Bounty Hunter to go.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:37 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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The Hero of Tython would swamp Revan wink


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:41 PM
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Nephthys
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Yes. The HoT did what Revan failed to do 3 times in a row and made him look like an incompetent boob in comparison.

Sorry Revan, the Hero is the main character now!


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:44 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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tbh even by the end of act 2 HoT may be more powerful. Lord Scourge at this point may have been as powerful as Revan. His potential is hinted at by Revan in his novel, plus he has the extra experience and skill.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:46 PM
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Nephthys
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Probably only as powerful. I mean, Vitiate did beat the Hero and 3 other Jedi at the same time with a single attack. Sure, he's gotten more powerful since Revan, but I wouldn't put the Act II Hero above Revan based on that showing.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:49 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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HoT fared better against the FLS than Revan did yes


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:53 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
tbh even by the end of act 2 HoT may be more powerful. Lord Scourge at this point may have been as powerful as Revan. His potential is hinted at by Revan in his novel, plus he has the extra experience and skill.


Not even close.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 10:58 PM
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Nephthys
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Also, I think the HoT could probably beat the Imperial Strike team that beat Revan.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 11:01 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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prime HoT definitely could.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 11:02 PM
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Nai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. The HoT did what Revan failed to do 3 times in a row and made him look like an incompetent boob in comparison.


I don't know, how their actions even compare.

According to ingame information as well as the SWTOR Encyclopedia, Vitiate had stored part of his power in:


  • in his original body
  • in his Voice
  • in the Emperor's Wrath (and Scourge)
  • in the 12 hands
  • in hundreds of his children.


So, logically, Vitiate as he appears in SW:ToR has to be by far weaker than the Vitiate Revan faced. And then, he is even more weakened by the failed ritual when the HoT finally defeats him (with assistance of T7).

And then, you always make it sound, as if everything the HoT has done was done by him alone. Going by the fact, that he always had assistance, - ranging from the aforementioned R2(demigod)-like T7 through a Child-of-the-Emperor kum Jedi Knight and, finally, the immortal Lord Scourge - one can't attribute everything just to him. Much like it wasn't Revan alone who did every heroic deed in KotoR. And the same goes for Meetra in KotoR 2.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 11:06 PM
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ares834
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thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, I think the HoT could probably beat the Imperial Strike team that beat Revan.


In a forum fight, sure. He can quickly kill the agent and BH with TK.


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Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 11:07 PM
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Nephthys
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nai
I don't know, how their actions even compare.

According to ingame information as well as the SWTOR Encyclopedia, Vitiate had stored part of his power in:


  • in his original body
  • in his Voice


Hmm, I don't think this is true. According to this:

"For centuries, the Emperor's Voice has delivered the Sith leader's commandments to his servants. In fact, to converse with the Emperor's Voice is to have an audience with the Emperor himself, whose power and consciousness have been placed within the Voice's body."

And SWTORE says the same thing. So by all rights, Vitiates power is held within his Voice when he is occupying it. He isn't splitting it between the two bodies.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nai
  • in the Emperor's Wrath (and Scourge)


  • Not true, Vitiate doesn't grant power to the Emperor's Wrath (that is, the Sith Warrior class). As for Scourge, his martial ability was boosted by the Emperor, but I highly doubt its something that requires a constant portion of Vitiates power, rather than improving him with sorcery in some way. Like for instance how Talzin improved Savage Opress. If it was a constant boost though I also don't see why Vitiate wouldn't sever it after Scourge betrayed him.

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nai
  • in the 12 hands


  • Again, not true. In fact the encyclopedia indicates that Vitiate draws power from them instead of the other way around.

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nai
  • in hundreds of his children.


  • Eh, this is the only accurate one you named. However, many of the Children were killed in the Consular storyline, including the First Son and they were thus revealed to the Republic, which likely lead to more of them being killed.

    Also it only says that they 'share' a portion of his power, so its entirely possible that they are merely drawing on his power like the Imperial Guard does when near him. Also since the connection between he and them is always open I don't see why he couldn't draw on their power should he need to.

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nai
    So, logically, Vitiate as he appears in SW:ToR has to be by far weaker than the Vitiate Revan faced. And then, he is even more weakened by the failed ritual when the HoT finally defeats him (with assistance of T7).


    I disagree. Vitiates power is stated in SWTORE to be ever increasing, not diminished. Furthermore he's been draining power from Revan for 300 years since his capture, again indicating an increased amount of power. And he's drawing power (and vitality) from the 12 Hands you mentioned. The only possible draw on his power IMO is from the Children and that is nebulous and arguable.

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nai
    And then, you always make it sound, as if everything the HoT has done was done by him alone.


    A fair comment, but the Hero's actions were always attributed to them in the game so thats how I presented it. I also don't think her companions contributions were that notable, with the possible exception of Scourge when he joins.

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nai
    Going by the fact, that he always had assistance, - ranging from the aforementioned R2(demigod)-like T7


    Lol.

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nai
    through a Child-of-the-Emperor kum Jedi Knight


    Kira is never shown drawing on the power of an Emperor's Child. We see in the Consular campaign that a Child is a completely different personality and being to their host, so I see no reason why she would be able to. Furthermore, she's an unfinished one anyway, as Vitiate notes, after calling her weak.


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    Old Post Nov 16th, 2013 11:51 PM
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    Jmanghan
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    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nai
    I don't know, how their actions even compare.

    According to ingame information as well as the SWTOR Encyclopedia, Vitiate had stored part of his power in:


    • in his original body
    • in his Voice
    • in the Emperor's Wrath (and Scourge)
    • in the 12 hands
    • in hundreds of his children.


    So, logically, Vitiate as he appears in SW:ToR has to be by far weaker than the Vitiate Revan faced. And then, he is even more weakened by the failed ritual when the HoT finally defeats him (with assistance of T7).

    And then, you always make it sound, as if everything the HoT has done was done by him alone. Going by the fact, that he always had assistance, - ranging from the aforementioned R2(demigod)-like T7 through a Child-of-the-Emperor kum Jedi Knight and, finally, the immortal Lord Scourge - one can't attribute everything just to him. Much like it wasn't Revan alone who did every heroic deed in KotoR. And the same goes for Meetra in KotoR 2.
    If that's true, then by those standards, after 300 years of being constantly tortured, Revan should be on his level, shouldn't he? I mean if he was ALREADY weakened over the years by storing his power in different bodies (basically what you side) on top of the weakened state he was in during his fight with the Hero of Tython, why couldn't Revan storm in there with Scourge and while HoT and Scourge are fighting the imperial strike team, Revan uses Tutaminis against him after he tries to use his weakened force storm, and crushes him. Come to think of it, by that logic, alot of people should be far ahead of him during the events of TOR, including Satele, and the Jedi Strike Team that was supposed to assassinate him. Oh wait, they didn't? No? No, because they couldn't. Because Vitiate was too powerful.


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    Old Post Nov 17th, 2013 12:12 AM
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    XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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    Revan was gone, and Scourge states that being in the Emperor's presence (as a foe) would be too much for him to handle.


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    Old Post Nov 17th, 2013 12:13 AM
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    Nephthys
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    Scourge and Satele say that being in the Emperor's presence would be too much for anyone except the HoT to handle.

    Even weakened the Emperor would stomp anyone other than the HoT.


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    Old Post Nov 17th, 2013 12:17 AM
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    Jmanghan
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    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
    Revan was gone, and Scourge states that being in the Emperor's presence (as a foe) would be too much for him to handle.


    Exactly my point, if Vitiate was so weak (According to the dullard's posting) then how come Revan couldn't take him? Revan's power increased within the 300 year gap between "Revan" and "SW:TOR" and according to everyone, Vitiate was weakened immensely, so why couldn't Revan take him? And my answer to that is... Because he wasn't strong enough, he was too weak to defeat Vitiate on his own, something HoT had no trouble doing.


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    Old Post Nov 17th, 2013 12:17 AM
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    XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Nephthys
    Scourge and Satele say that being in the Emperor's presence would be too much for anyone except the HoT to handle.


    when did satele say that?


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    Old Post Nov 17th, 2013 12:17 AM
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    Nephthys
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    Location: The End


     

    Before the mission you can ask Satele to join you in fighting Vitiate and she says that anyone other than the HoT would get pwned by his telepathic domination.

    You know, just in case we needed more proof that the Hero >>> Satele.

    quote: (post)
    Originally posted by Jmanghan
    Exactly my point, if Vitiate was so weak (According to the dullard's posting) then how come Revan couldn't take him? Revan's power increased within the 300 year gap between "Revan" and "SW:TOR" and according to everyone, Vitiate was weakened immensely, so why couldn't Revan take him? And my answer to that is... Because he wasn't strong enough, he was too weak to defeat Vitiate on his own, something HoT had no trouble doing.


    No, the answer is cuz he was dead. wink


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