That's because there is no answer. Guys like Gil-Galad and Elendil's only real feat is fighting Sauron. But at the same time, Fingon's only real feat is battling Gothmog... My point is, none of these characters really have any feats to speak of.
Uh, where did I say otherwise. Gil-Galad, however, is a First Age elf and of the line of Kings. Logically, he would be a very great warrior.
He also had his whole gang of Balrogs backing him up. Sauron has the most impressive solitary kill.
Are you dense or do you just bother to not read my posts? I said in my post, Isildur did not kill Sauron he "merely cut the ring of his corpse."
By the same inane logic, Gothmog is superior to Melkor... Simply because Sauron stays in the back does not make him inferior in battle.
There needs to be a line drawn here between movie Sauron and book canon Sauron, Supra. Since we're talking about Silmarillion feats and characters here, using movie feats is inadmissable.
Also, Gothmog was not a man but a Maiar of the same order as Sauron. Sauron was simply a much better Maiar which is why the Balrogs became mortal and feral and Sauron retained much of his immortality and higher powers. It's like comparing Zeus to a Cyclops.
It's thought with his ring he could destroy the forces of Middle-Earth as of the trilogy. This includes the combined forces of Elrond, Galadriel, Cirdan, Gandalf, Gondor, Rohan, Dale etc. There aren't any First Age elf armies and Numenoreans to keep him in check.
Which doesn't change the fact that Gothmog has the superior feats and wins under his belt. Doesn't change the fact that Gothmog was more formidable and lead the forces in battle while sauron was behind lock and key. Nobody is denying Sauron is the better sorcerer and more versed in deception.. cunning and the ways of Melkor. What is also crystal clear is that he isn't the warrior that Gothmog is.. if he was.. he'd be in charge of the forces and leading the charge as the greats did back then.. he wasn't and for good reason. When Gothmog was around Sauron took a back seat to him when it comes to the battles, and since this is a fight.. not a war of words or magic.. Gothmog wins.
Also... how did Gothmog and other Balrogs become "mortal" and Sauron didn't... explain to me how this happened and where this is stated?
Fingon fought Glaurung when he first appeared... which alone is more than the featless wonders you keep talking about
Ecth.. also killed balrogs before he even met Gothmog.. again something greater than than people you mentioned. Shit, just defeating Gothmog alone is vastly superior to anything. So no, by feats Feanor... Ecth and Fingon are VASTLY superior to Sauron best victims.. of this there is no doubt.
I don't know how I could forget but I forgot the massive feat of getting Ungoliant to let loose of Melkor when she was in the process of devouring him. It was balrogs who were called and saved the day... Not Sauron.. That is a massive feat for the powers of balrogs to drive away Ungoliant.. who rivaled Melkor in power after devouring so much of the light. Shit he had Melkor helpless to do anything till the balrog saved the day.
Nobody knows but that's irrelevant because for much of his life he was a shapechanger or a disembodied spirit. Morgoth was a giant in his final form, but he was not always so. Tolkien didn't make character sheets for his creations.
KT, you clearly have not read the books. Your repeated assertions in the face of direct quotes and refutations is mind-boggling. Balrogs were slain, and the one in Moria is the last of his kind. In the sacking of Gondolin, many balrogs died.
Sauron, however, was not the same until he crafted the One Ring. And even then he survived the flood of Numenor and escaped into the East to reform. Balrogs could not do this.
There are no assertions I repeated.. BTW.. I'm still waiting on how and when Gothmog became mortal?
How is Feanor.. Ecth and Fingo being above the peole Sauron beaten and assertion? This is a fact.. and fact supported by battle feats.
It's also not a assertion that Gothmog was in charge of battle and the one leading the charge for Melkor.. If Sauron was more powerful.. he would be leading the way. He wasn't. Gothmog was.. and the reason why is because he's more formidable and the better warrior. This isn't an assertion it's a fact. I listed some of the battles gothmog has lead.. Suaron never lead any when Gothmog was around. There is a reason for this.
So which assertions are you referring to? I'm honestly starting to wonder if you've ever read any of the books.
Supra thinks Gothmog is an orc. His opinion is irrelevant.
I dunno if this has been pointed out, but I just started reading the Silmarillion, and here is something it says:
"Faced by this rebellion, of appalling folly and blasphemy, and also real peril (since the Numenoreans directed by Sauron could have wrought ruin in Valinor itself) the Valar lay down their delegated power and appeal to God, and receive the power and permission to deal with the situation; the old world is broken and changed."
Depending on how you take this, Sauron's power could be being compared to a Valar.
Oh, and quote is from a letter Tolkien sent to Milton Waldman, who asked for a summary of his setting.
__________________ Thanks Scythe!
Last edited by NemeBro on Dec 27th, 2013 at 12:26 AM
Your deliberate (or perhaps ignorant) attempts at twisting events is laughable.
"Then Fingon prince of Hithlum rode against him with archers on horseback, and hemmed him round with a ring of swift riders; and Glaurung could not endure their darts, being not yet come to his full armoury, and he fled back to Angband, and came not forth again for many years."
Not only did Fingon do this with a bunch of archers but it was against a young Glaurung who was not yet fully developed and vulnerable.
He killed "Balrogs"... At this time they weren't maiar but creatures created by Melko and were far less than those of later versions. Using this story (which is supposedly Tolkien's earliest ME story) is a very weak argument. Hell, to put things in perspective, in these stories dragons are machines and 'Sauron' was a cat possessed by a demon. Nor was Ecthelion even the greatest lord in Gondolin in these early versions.
Only if you have no clue what you are talking about or are twisting 'facts' to suit your argument.
First the Balrogs were not "called" as you say. They heard Morgoth scream and then came in their numbers. And Ungoliant, even at this time, is certainly not the equal of Melkor in his prime or even Manwe, Tulkas, or likely any of the other Valar.
It is a good feat none the less, but it was a whole group of Balrogs not one. Using this as a feat for Gothmog is ridiculous.
Last edited by ares834 on Dec 27th, 2013 at 12:35 AM
More likely its simply the might of the Numenoreans. I doubt even Sauron was comparable to even the least of the Valar.
What? He was killed in Gondolin and was unable to reform... Of course he was mortal. Presumably, his impotent spirit still lingers but Gothmog is dead and gone.
Last edited by ares834 on Dec 27th, 2013 at 12:32 AM
Sure, but that's because Sauron's direction was to attack Valinor. Sauron himself had absolutely no intention to go to Valinor. He was simply trying to kill off the Numenorians.
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