Sauron has died more times than Moosie has changed his diaper by himself... Not as many times as you'd think using that analogy... but he's still died numerous times... by people inferior to who kiled Gothmog and who Gothmog has beaten.
Gothmog as Ares admits most likely didn't die.. his spirit still lived.. just as Sauron spirit lived.. difference is.. Sauron was still able to take a physical form again.. while Balrogs couldn't. That doesn't account for Sauron dying like a weak feeb numerous more times than Gothmog died. Just cause Sauron comes back doesn't change the fact that he was beaten many times... What just cause Rich Franklin keeps on coming back to fight peope over and over and losing.. is that impressive to you?
I do find falling to actual impressive forces (Like werewolves protected by Fate itself, Eru Illuvitar, or a powerful Elven king and eight foot tall Man king) and managing to come back almost every time to be more impressive than getting gored by a helmet and pushed into some water, yes.
Impressive you say.. what was impressive about Huan? Which feats did he have? Eru.. well that was just another time he was washed away like laundry... no really a bad showing per say cause it's Eru but just par for the course for Sauron and getting owned. Do tell me what is impressive about the Elven King and Man king... please cite for me their feats.. Ohh wait they have none.. So again.. what was impressive about him DYING many many times?
Gothmog killed Ecth.. who himself had killed other Balrogs prior... Killing other Balrogs is VASTLY more impressive than anything Gil-galad or The man King has EVER done.. EVER. It's also more impressive than anything Huan has ever done. Gothmog killed Ecth but also died.. hardly a low showing. Difference is Gothmog also killed Feanor, who again, is well above Ecth in feats and of course above anyboyd Sauron beat. There is no way to get around Gothmog killing more impressive people, dying less and being killed by more impressive people. There is zero way around that.
Did you also think it was impressive for Rich Franklin to keep coming back from being KO'd.. only to be KO'd again? Do you like comeback stories? Is that why you love Sauron? Sorry it's not impressive to get owned over and over just cause you come back from it.
Still waiting for the impressive feats of Huan.. not how far their footsteps could be heard... Further, why do you believe Huan couldn't be killed there
God most certainly could fell Sauron for good.. just because something didn't happen doesn't mean it couldn't. Just cause Pea lost to De La Hoya doesn't mean he'd lose everytime. If Eru wanted Sauron died forever.. that is EXACTLY what would happen and let's not act otherwise. He wasn't even trying to kill Sauron there anyways.. he was trying to wipe out the num's for disobeying the proclamation.
So dying to featless wonders is impressive to you? Sorry it's not. Those guys are not early age Elven Kings who's feats shit all over the later ones... Those were 3rd age elven and Man kings with no feats to their name. Sauron killing them isn't impressive but them kiling him is par for the course with Sauron.
And? Gothmog killed hiim period. Again Ecth beating a whole bunch of Balrogs is vastly superior to ANYTHING or Anybody Sauron has beaten or been beaten by. There is no way around that. IF you want to post a feat from anybody who has killed Sauron (besides eru) or someone Sauron has killed that Rivals kiling multiple balrogs please post it.. If not, than Ecth has better feats than Sauron.. period.
Feanor is EXPONENTIONALLY above ANYONE Sauron has beaten or been beaten by.. a recurring theme in this debate. You can say he had help..but the fact remains.. it was a BATTLE... Feanor had help as well.. Gothmog MANUEVERED hiimself and others in a position to beat the help Feanor had and to isolate him at the end... That is called battle tactics.. Gothmog was supeior and landed the death blow on the greatest Elven lord of all time.
and? This is impressive to you.. defeating Finrod has nothing on defeating Feanor.. fingon and ecth..
As I also stated before... Gothmog was Captain of Angband... Sauron was called Lieutenant of Angband.. as we know Captain is above Lieu... As we aslo know Gothmog NOT Sauron was put in charge of defending Melkor not Sauron.. in most of the battles Gothmog was leading the charge and protecting Melkor.. Sauron was held up in fortrress not powerful enough or with enough prestige to either lead nor help... and you wanna talk about being a pussy.
As I mentieond before when Melkor was about to be killed by Ugoliant.. who came to his rescue and drove it off.. not Sauron.. of course the puss was no where to be found.. it was the balrogs.. and we're talking about a super amped Spider who had just digested all fo the trees of light... somebody about to kill Melkor himself.. The balrogs saved Melkor when he couldn't even save himself. That is how powerful they were.
No what I said and meant was.. Second and Third age Elves and men can't compare to first age Elves and men. That is a clear fact that can't be disputed. Now I'll ask you... Gil-Galad being the son of Fingon... Since it seems you're acting like he was a first age elf with feats to show for.. do tell me his feats... Ohhh wait... he was a young child for most of his existence in the first age... his feats and reign were almost exclusively in the secnod age
Elendil.. it again seems like you have no clue... please cite for me when he was born and what feats of his were during the first age.
Moosie.. you honestly have no clue about what we are talking about. You're doing your little sidelining routine because you were already made to look like a fool in this thread and others. Remember that whole... Morgoth came first before Melkor... anybody saying that.. should never act like they have a clue what they are talking about when it comes to Lord of the Rings or Sim material.
Odd.. If he couldn't be killed and up until that point had only spoken once... why would he be cowaring in fear and not wanting to come out and fight Sauron?
You honestly can't be this stupid.. I mean really.. you can't. Even Ares would agree that Eru could perma kill Sauron at any time he felt like it. The God of all God could without question or with a mere thought wipe Sauron out for all existence. To even think otherwise is hilarious. He can't die.. so tell me.. after the one ring was destroyed... he's coming back agian?
I addressed this point to Ares.. You guys are hilarious that you try and talk crap and literally have no clue what you're talking about. Like literally. My point was very clear... Elves of the First age were far superior to later elves and their feats represent this. So, I'll ask you this because it's clear you have no clue. You do realize Gil-Galad was just a boy during the end of the first age right? Shit, he wasn't even born for the majority of the first age. You do realize that the vast majority of his life was spent in the second age right? Ohh wait you don't seem to know this. Elendil, again it seems you have no clue... Do you know when he was born? Do you honestly have a clue what you're talking about? What age was he from LULZ
Ummm feanor was that badass.. The greatest Elven king by a country mile. He was confident in his abilities and for good reason. The point is he had an army with him when the battle took place... Just because he was smart and prudent doesn't change the fact that he had help. Ares, with one of his many times of leaving out info.. even tried to make it seem like there was no battle and feanor was just jumped by Gothmog and Balrogs... this couldn't be further from the truth.. there was a battle.. and feanor was beaten and outmanuevered. Period. WHich again, is a slaying of somebody exponentionally better than anybody Sauron has beaten or been beaten by.
Ecth killing multiple balrogs is AGAIN greater than ANYTHING Sauron has ever done. You just can't get around this point can you. Name me ONE feat of Suaron in battle that is greater than killing multiple balrogs.. I'll be waiting on this.
Kryponite effect... okay... please cite the passage that says this as I don't remember that being said at all. What I do know is that she was amped and Morgoth himself couldn't defeat her or stop her from devouring him.. Balrogs could. As we know... Morgoth is vastly superior to Sauron
Umm No.. Sauron was the political figure head.. his right hand man.. his protege... He was not in charge of the armies and leading them. His military rank shows this very fact. You do know that a Captain is above Lieu right? You do understand that during these times.. the best warriors were out front leading the charge. The lead by example and the best of the best were leading the charge. That is how the battles were fought in the Sim... NO tell me.. If Sauron was so powerful and so strong.. why was he NEVER EVER leading the charge of battle when Gothmog was around? Odd isn't it? Well not really considering Sauron was more a politician than he was a warrior. Which again is confirmed by how many times his shit was pushed in. So explain to me why he was never leading any armies or leading them into battle if he was so powerful?
Saruman was said to be more powerful than Gandalf.. by Gandalf... Him saying that would include Maiar like Sauron as well.. Yet Gandalf was able to defeat Saruman... Hyperbole means jack.. feats mean everything.
Now what I want you to do is this?
1 Name me all the times Gothmog has died and the times Sauron has died.. Who has had their shit pushed in more?
2. Name me all the battle Sauron lead when Gothmog was around... thnk think think
3. Name me ANY feat of Sauron in battle that is better than killing multiple balrogs at one time. I already know you can't but do avoid this question LULZ
4. Name me any slaying of Sauron has that is better than killing Ecth and Feanor?
5. Which is a higher military rank.. Captain or Lieutentant?
I'm also curious why Wiki, tolkiens gateway and other LOTR sites list Gothmog and Sauron has having the same rank. Explain this to me
Guys, you have no clue. There's no clue to be had guys. Get a clue, guys.
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Jan 7th, 2014 08:06 PM
