Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
LT struggling against Nebulos means nothing imo. Since there's no cap-level to gauge Nebulos/staff prior.
Anyway, I went back to the story, LT was winning the cheesy fight the entire time.
Nebulos even ran for life at one point.
Also, although the LT had to use something other than his power due to a stipulation,
it wasn't as vague as I remembered, there was some info that gave us some clues into Nebulos.
Nebulos empowered Strange with his Staff, (partially) turning Strange into pure energy
then Strange was able to fly by Countless UniverseS in an instant basically:
Strange/Staff also stomped Mordo (empowered by all Earth's mystics)
by absorbing Mordo's power via Staff, it was really a one-shot that
sent Mordo literally zooming to the ends of Infinity & beyond: (not bfr, holy)
Also, it appears Nebulos' Staff was able to absorb LT's mystical energies,
this is why he resorted to slagging a huge mountain to destroy that planet.
Nebulos was amazed at LT's power out-put but I agree it was still cheesy all the same.
But imo, Nebulos wasn't such a punk, he had his special power through the Polar Specter,
which is to absorb the energy attacks of any being/entity it seems, even the LT's.
This is also interesting, Nebulos was going to incant a final spell that would've wrecked The Cosmos,
Strange states: "it must not be let loose on The Universe"
But what Universe? His own Universe (Planets Perilous) ... or 616? (Strange's universe)
Or did this mean The Cosmos as in all universes?
Just sayin,
why would Strange care what happens to Nebulos' twisted realm where only he seems to exist?
And if Strange was talking about his own universe (616)
If so ... well, they were located Countless UniverseS away from 616,
does this mean Nebulos was gonna one-shot 616 from countless universeS away?
If so, that's pretty bad-ass.
LT fled from Korvac's universe means less than nothing imo.
Since LT never confronted Korvac, and was never even noticed by Korvac,
LT did nothing, and nothing happened to him for me to care about this. Plot called for Korvac to UN the universe,
otherwise,
LT would've used his effortless universal manipulating power on Korvac,
instead of a freakin single tiny sun.
IB? Now, ... that really means nothing, and it ain't an opinion imo.
He was always the all-powerful cosmic judge. Even in the Nebulos story:
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
LT has few real appearances. (meaning where he does something significant)
Stories cater to heroes (almost always human mortals, mostly with some kind of ability grant it)
Yet, LT has always been the most powerful entity aside from the
implication of a one "God" that made even the LT, we later learned this is something called TOAA.
There's no proof that I've seen that states: "the continuum of universes = the multiverse."
The Omniverse is made up of universes, infinite number of universes, a .. continuum of universes.
Multiverse and Megaverse are just groupings of universes.
Omniverse is literally described in that glossary as "all alternative universes,"
on panel supported that statement several times I presented one pages back.
We may have bone, flesh and skin, (multiverses/megaverses)
but in the end, it's just atoms. (universes)
That's how you see it, and that's cool.
But imo, LT had his hands tied behind his back by Gruenwald. Simplistic plot constrictions.
Especially when we see LT use the local sun against a guy who
absorbed a host of Celestials amongst other cosmic powers for crying out loud.
Yet the same LT demonstrated at-least pure universal manipulation in said story.
I mean, ... ahh whatever if you don't see it for what t is.
His desire to give others what they wanted is one excuse.
Yet, it makes no difference if he orchestrated it (consciously/unconsciously) to begin with.
... meh, there's the more logical reasoning which is making Beyonder feel "desire"
and now there's a reason for Beyonder to return to a second long ass series,
and hopefully we'll make tons of money like we did with SW1.
It's not ignored, and you posted that scan before, means nothing.
Since Beyonder didn't give any specifics, it's inconsequential.
Also, the LT and the rest of Marvel were like microbes to Beyonder, so ...
your 'lesser beings' argument doesn't work here imo.
It's cool, I respect your opinion as well,
but I strongly disagree with some of the points you're making as well.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Jan 7th, 2014 at 11:17 PM
You're very obviously lowballing the Beyonder as people like quan lowball your beloved DC characters. Like I said, saying that he would get trashed by anyone on this list is bullsh1t of the highest order, and borders on baiting.
You're so adorable when you bark loudly and fail to bite, you angry little puppy.
So, Nebulos was "the lord" of his universe...............a universe, where there's no one except him? I'm impressed.
LT wasn't, by any means, winning the fight; in fact, he admitted himself that every attack of his was getting absorbed by Nebulos' staff, which is why he resorted to summoning the flames of Faltine:
I appreciate the effort you're putting by posting those feats, but they're not even remotely impressive when in comparison with LT. And Strange absorbed through the staff, the occult magic of all earth's mystic.............add some little extra power the staff itself possesses (as Nebulos later said, that it grew in power as time passed on, or something like that), and you've got a staff that is able to completely nullify all of LT's cosmic bolts.
The universe it's going to wreck, was Nebulos' universe, definitely. There's no proof to suggest otherwise, Strange being concerned about it? why wouldn't he be concerned about the destruction of an entire universe (be it his or otherwise)? Considering that they were in Nebulos' own universe, and the specific term Nebulos and Strange used was "the universe/cosmos" (not "my/our universe" in case of Strange) id say that it was meant to refer to Nebulos' dimension.
Also, Nebulos said that even LT couldn't prevent such a spell, that doesn't exactly support your case here. Not to mention that Strange was able to take away his staff when the Tribunal couldn't.
Im aware that he's been called "cosmic judge" in the story (multiple times), but you didn't seem to understand what im saying. I meant to say that, when looking at LT's (unimpressive) pre SW 2 history its nothing compared to his later performances (see ahead). Which is why i asked you whether pre SW 2 LT strike you as powerful as his later appearances (this was a actually a rhetorical question).
So tell me, honestly, when you're thinking of LT's feats, what feats do you think of? Does anything pre-SW 2 come to mind? Or rather the time he was stated to exist in all multiverses simultaneously, or the time he held 2 megaverses in his hand, or the time he was established to be the 2nd most powerful entity in Marvel, or the time he was established to be superior to the IG (which was capable of affecting multiple universes, as opposed to how it's portrayed currently), or the time he merged surfer with the universe instantly, etc..?
All those are post-SW 2, non of the things he did before are worth mentioning when it comes to his feats.
Well, here's the proof, right from the relevant issue:
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Actually, that gives an idea of how pissy 1967 can be.
I already showed what Strange was capable of using a fragment of the Staff's power.
In any case, Nebulos was more about defense that equated to offense.
Nebulos absorbs energy/mystical attacks and then uses it against his opponent.
His durability was next to paltry I'll give ya that.
That's probably why that "absorbing" Staff" comes in handy for em.
LT was winning. And I already addressed LT's bolts being absorbed.
I also mentioned the LT using a huge mountain against Nebulos.
So, not sure what yur teaching me here.
"Winning" with his back turned hauling ass in the opposite direction.
I appreciate your efforts too.
Before absorbing the mystic/energies it gave Strange the ability to travel across countless universeS in a blink,
it also absorbed any attack Mordo threw at em.
(also, Strange harnessed it partially)
It's absorption capabilities had nothing to do with the mystic energies.
The Staff grew in power accordingly with what it absorbed through time, not with time.
Perhaps. It's interesting though.
Strange labelled the "numberless Dimensions"
as he travelled across the voids of space-time, as ... The Universe:
When Mordo got shotted into the "Everlasting Nothingness" (void after all creation)
He passed Endless galaxies to the ends of infinite space-time, then into the nothing beyond.
Writer tells us "All Worlds of the created Cosmos are left behind" ...
I don't see why he couldn't send a spell in the same fashion using all the Staff's power.
Nebulos taking out his own reality makes no sense and accomplishes nothing for him,
especially since he seemed alone in that reality and Nebulos' tone was to hurt The Cosmos,
not only himself and LT/Strange.
Don't see how Strange's PIS abilities mean anything here.
In any case, Nebulos isn't a physical combatant.
His deal is to absorb attacks and then use them against you.
We've gotten to see more of the LT and what he can do. He's the same LT of always.
All the DimensionS, in time or space ... were given to the LT"
---------------------------------------------
Again, what unimpressive showings are you talking about?
Imo, the LT was never really portrayed before SWI except for the What If.
Nebulos? Well, Nebulos had his stipulated power (to absorb any and all energy/mystical attacks)
No different than Protege's stipulated ability to copy anyone's power.
Before Nebulos, he appeared before Strange and didn't do much, didn't need to do much.
Another time he manifested In-Betweener to confront Strange, which means nothing concerning LT powerwise.
So, I don't get what you mean. It's a lame character which isn't going to get much play,
especially in a time when almost no one gave a shit about these types of subjects in comics.
Anyway, he was portrayed as extreme as times were then.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Jan 8th, 2014 at 06:32 PM
Zom not only feared the LT, but got thwarted easily by LT.
Surfer becoming infinite? Don't remember LT trying to do this before and failing.
Well not from the relevant issue since this 1982 What If has nothing to do with Last Planet Standing.
Also, I thought you jumped on the wagon that says there was No Omniverse back then.
So, how the hell do we expect for All Universes to be the omniverse in 1982
when the idea concerning mainstream or rather canon work was constricted to the Multiverse?
Anyway, let's try some proof after the Omniverse was established as part of continuity.
"Omniverse ... Infinite number of Alternatives ... variations of Sol III." (616-Earth)
Because Korvac admitted that while he was more powerful than any being in that universe,
he was not more powerful than every being in that universe combined.
LT demonstrated power over that entire universe.
Which leads right back to "Plot."
The stories prior to his major showings didn't call for him to act on a multiversal or better scale.
Still, Zom was a Multiversal threat and the LT did away with him easily.
I don't really care about that tbh. Beyonder was helping Doom during that piss-full moment.
Anyway it was a one shot deal, and no one, I mean no one can repeat that.
Unless Beyonder re-creates the scenario for us.
Which is: (a Doom, from a future he doesn't even exist in, using big G tech amped
with alien tech, while Beyonder helps him, in a reality where the concept of Death has been warped)
That was specifically stated in the Doom scene where he's stomped by Beyonder.
So, yet another stipulation aiding this Doom.
So, you believe this one isolated incident accounts for all 50+ issues of SWII?
You must be joking.
Anyway, I'll post the many times Beyonder stated he was limiting his powers,
to combat your one scan.
Anyway, I can see by now that the discussion is going nowehere,
which is why this'll probably be my last response regarding this topic.
I never said that Nebulos was winning, i clearly stated countless times that LT was struggling with Nebulos.
Nope, LT wasn't winning, by his own admission, every attack of his was getting absorbed by the staff until he summoned the flames to destroy Nebulos' planet...........that translates to winning?
Okay. But LT struggled against that staff, and by the end of the fight, it had the power to destroy a universe, which indicates that Nebulos hadn't used even the majority of its power while fighting LT.
I never said that Nebulos was winning, i clearly stated countless times that LT was struggling with Nebulos.
No, LT wasn't winning, by his own admission, every attack of his was getting absorbed by the staff until he summoned the flames to destroy Nebulos' planet...........that translates to winning?
Okay. But LT struggled against that staff, and by the end of the fight, it had the power to destroy a universe, which indicates that Nebulos hadn't used even the majority of its power while fighting LT.
And the very next page has Mordro saying "the earth......then the whole universe"......obviously referring to a single universe:
And if anything, your 2nd scan proves this, because it tells us "all the worlds of the cosmos", and we see planets right there on panel (not that there isn't any more examples, because there is, but you get the point, i hope).
I already acknowledged that LT functioned on a multiversal scale even before SW 2.
I am talking about him struggling against Nebulos and his staff, because it contained some earth's mystic (which was definitely a huge power up relative to the power it contained without it, otherwise, Nebulos wouldn't have bothered to go through all the trouble), which were enough to give LT some serious trouble, he was completely helpless against it.
There's also the What if.....but meh, we threw that on the plot, remember?
I also have more examples, from different titles referencing "God" around the same time period, in the mid-70s. (i definitely win that one). Let me know.
Are you basing this off the SS v3 #44 (i think it was)......that statement that says Thanos is supreme in all realities? I have my own reasons for not believing that IG is a threat to all realities (but im not going to go into details cause that's irrelevant to the discussion).
I sure do remember LT struggling against Nebulos, though.
Zom himself wasn't a multiversal threat. It was the side effect of releasing Zom which threatened the "worlds beyond worlds":
No, i already know that it was stated multiple times that Beyonder was liming himself (heck, i recall an instance where he was beaten by some thugs), but it sure does disprove your statement that Beyonder was limiting himself the entire time, no?
Personally, i believe that he wasn't limiting himself while interacting with the abstract beings. That's just my opinion, though.
Why are you acting like a parot?
But seriously, as long as new points are brought up (and not the same circles again and again, you'll notice i ignored some parts of your posts for that very reason), ill respond, otherwise (which would lead to a boring discussion), ill stop.
Last edited by operator616 on Jan 8th, 2014 at 10:19 PM
Couldn't get the edit in time, and i missed this part.......
If you were paying attention you'd notice that i was referring to the what if issue and not LPS, in my previous post, you said you found no evidence of it, which is why i responded with a scan from the relevant issue (which is specifically stated was the what if issue, previously).
I said that scan doesn't prove that LT was omniversal not that the omniverse didn't exist.
But I will concede that the writing in this arc is all over the place.
I don't think I wanna entertain this 1967 joint anymore.
"Into the Everlasting Nothingness"
So there's nothing beyond this one universe?
Which leads to only one universe in Marvel in this story.
I disagree, but ok.
Cool.
The Staff itself doesn't need to be powerful initially.
It's power comes from absorbing cosmic/mystical energies as it's attacked then use that an offense.
I already told ya, if you don't see it for what it is, whatever.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
I disagree. Let me know when you find that on panel or bio account
that suggests the LT got a power-up. So, no need to try and play tic
toe anymore with your logic. Unless there's actual proof, let's leave it alone.
So then now to you ... LT was ... number Two? You confusing me.
O...K ... I only said he was #1 cause you said he wasn't established as #2.
In fact earlier in this debate I included that the LT is the most
powerful save for an implication of a one "God" above him.
So ... pay attention friend like you enjoy advising.
No. I also have my reasons but that's neither here nor there.
... Nice catch. You got that one. Mr M keeps it real.
I also forgot to give you your credit on the Sorcerer Supreme#21 discourse we had,
after taking a second look, I noticed you were right, so Strange was
talking about separate infinities withIN the Multiverse which made it
trans-infinite. Therefore LT was still operating within the Multiverse.
The "Clusters" are groups containing infinite universes of a type,
then there are other "groups" (Clusters) with an infinite # of other
types of universes, yet all in the Multiverse.
So you got that, and when the debate shows up somewhere again, I'll support it,
that's Mr M. And don't forget to reciprocate when you see yourself in my shoes.
(there's been a couple of debates we've had where you could've obliged)
HAHAHA!! That shit makes no sense I agree.
Jim Steranko was known for getting high like Gruenwald, who knows.
In that very same page:
It was literally stated that "Each self-contained Cosmos" (universe) was affected:
"Infinity was rent asunder" for a short time after Zom's released:
Back in those days they had that juicy 'chocolate Tie' and that stinky 'Indiga' in fat joints,
I'm guessing someone was lifted during this creation.
Fair enuff. I don't agree but it's not an impossible point of view.
Relax. Just trying to bring a bit of humor at the end. You're a little robotic sometimes.
I'll continue to enjoy this debate until I get bored.
(but with the same circles again and again, you'll notice I've been patient
although I will begin ignoring some parts of your posts for that very reason)
Otherwise, I'll get bored of circles sooner than I realize and quit without notice.
So that's not humor, that's being an ass in response to sanctimonious babble.
If you were paying attention you'd notice that this whole discussion
started with you coming at me cause I said LPSG was an
omniversal threat based on the LT stating he was a threat to the continuum of universeS.
So, you shouldn't have been using anything Before there was an omniverse obviously.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Jan 9th, 2014 at 02:38 AM
Beyonder could easily take over the DC universe. I've just read Secret War 1 and 2, and how they explains the Beyonder (classic) was that he was more than the sum total of all existence it self. that means he was more powerful than everything in existence (people, artifacts, weapons, ect) together.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 7th, 2014 10:41 PM
... Nice catch. You got that one. Mr M keeps it real.
