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Black Sails
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Arachnid1
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Jesus fking Christ @ Rogers

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Blackbeards death was the most brutal thing I've seen on TV. FFS. Still, he went out like a badass. Smiled at Rogers before the keelhauling, and smiled at him after. That scene had my jaw hanging open.

I couldn't believe Rackham just surrendering though, considering the fact that it's pretty clear what happens to pirates at this point. He had the bigger ship, the bigger crew, and more guns. They could have easily bargained for Blackbeard and Anne. I honestly thought Rackham had an epic plan in the works. This was Calico Jack and Blackbeard together, and both are made out to be brilliant/talented. Rogers punked tf out of them. I assumed both Rogers and Blackbeard would survive due to history. I should have taken VaultDwellers "Well, the show takes some liberties with historical fact," more seriously lol. This wouldn't have blindsided me so badly.


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Old Post Mar 13th, 2017 06:22 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Martian_mind
I just saw the Ep where [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Silver betrays Billy. It pretty much cements [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Israel Hand as the most dominant fighter in the series. Totally OP.


Yeah, that managed to be both extremely brutal, yet ridiculously swift, all at once. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Billy never stood a chance.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Jesus fking Christ @ Rogers

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Blackbeards death was the most brutal thing I've seen on TV. FFS. Still, he went out like a badass. Smiled at Rogers before the keelhauling, and smiled at him after. That scene had my jaw hanging open.

I couldn't believe Rackham just surrendering though, considering the fact that it's pretty clear what happens to pirates at this point. He had the bigger ship, the bigger crew, and more guns. They could have easily bargained for Blackbeard and Anne. I honestly thought Rackham had an epic plan in the works. This was Calico Jack and Blackbeard together, and both are made out to be brilliant/talented. Rogers punked tf out of them. I assumed both Rogers and Blackbeard would survive due to history. I should have taken VaultDwellers "Well, the show takes some liberties with historical fact," more seriously lol. This wouldn't have blindsided me so badly.


Well, [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Jack wasn't going to risk Anne getting killed in the crossfire. It's his weak point. We've seen him make sacrifices (sometimes irrational) for her sake on multiple occasions before, often to his own detriment.

I also didn't expect Teach to die there. I actually expected them to keelhaul him one more time, only to find him missing from the ropes or something, and have him return at a later point.

But this also shows you what I mean with regards to Rogers being an extremely brutal and formidable enemy. He's as psychotic and bloodthirsty as any of the pirates when he wants to be.


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Old Post Mar 13th, 2017 06:32 AM
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Martian_mind
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
[B]Yeah, that managed to be both extremely brutal, yet ridiculously swift, all at once. [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Billy never stood a chance.


It was especially shocking considering how well [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Billy has performed against Vane and Flint. They were pretty much the top-tier, yet [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Israel is next level.


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Old Post Mar 13th, 2017 09:16 AM
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Robtard
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Israel Hands is a badass and it's fitting considering he was one of Teach's top men, right?

He's playing the devil on Silver's shoulder very well. One of the better characters, despite little screen time.

Also of note, he's both a real and fictional pirate. As the show generally has one or the other.


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Old Post Mar 14th, 2017 04:43 PM
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KingD19
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Israel was Blackbeard's #2 before Vane. Teach basically betrayed him once Nassau was his. And according to both Silver and Hands himself, it was basically him doing the lion's share of sacking Nassau the first time around.

Also [SPOILER - highlight to read]: I'm kind of disappointed in Rogers. His refusal to take blame for his actions and put is all on his dead wife/baby mama who had a very sound plan that would've only sacrificed his pride for a time is just...sad. He's a brutal, savage, cunning enemy. And a great tactician. I thought he'd be man enough to accept that because he was a big baby and snitched to England's enemy, his wife and child are dead. It's all Eleanor's fault and the Handmaiden's fault for whispering in her ear.

Also I hope they didn't survive Madi just to kill her off later.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 12:18 AM
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Martian_mind
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^All true about Israel, though it still doesn't explain the sheer width of the gap. He absolutely destroyed someone who is barely below the previous top-tiers. Why would Blackbeard's right hand man be so much more effective?


Edit: Then again, he willingly serves Silver, so I guess he values vision and wit over physical prowess.


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Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 06:54 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
Also [SPOILER - highlight to read]: I'm kind of disappointed in Rogers. His refusal to take blame for his actions and put is all on his dead wife/baby mama who had a very sound plan that would've only sacrificed his pride for a time is just...sad. He's a brutal, savage, cunning enemy. And a great tactician. I thought he'd be man enough to accept that because he was a big baby and snitched to England's enemy, his wife and child are dead. It's all Eleanor's fault and the Handmaiden's fault for whispering in her ear.


To be fair, he [SPOILER - highlight to read]: didn't really blame Eleanor so much as the handmaiden. He seemed convinced that Eleanor only did what she did because of external influence. He also kept whispering "I'm sorry" when he was looking at her body, so he does feel guilt. And considering what he had learned about the handmaiden, with regards to Rackham and the Spanish, as well as her previous history of being an informant and manipulating people, you can't blame the guy for being paranoid.


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Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 07:32 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Martian_mind
^All true about Israel, though it still doesn't explain the sheer width of the gap. He absolutely destroyed someone who is barely below the previous top-tiers. Why would Blackbeard's right hand man be so much more effective?


Edit: Then again, he willingly serves Silver, so I guess he values vision and wit over physical prowess.


He's not a leader-type, be could likely kill most men on 1v1, but that doesn't make someone a good leader, at least not for long. He probably knows that and is content being behind the scenes, whispering into a charismatic captain's ear.


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Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 04:44 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
He's not a leader-type, be could likely kill most men on 1v1, but that doesn't make someone a good leader, at least not for long. He probably knows that and is content being behind the scenes, whispering into a charismatic captain's ear.


Makes sense. Keep a relatively low profile while still holding a degree of influence. I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the bigger decisions Silver has made recently happened after exchanges with Hands. Which also shows that the guy is definitely not stupid either. He doesn't have the charisma to have people follow him, so he finds a position where he can still have an effect while staying out of the limelight. First with Teach. Now with Silver.


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Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 05:01 PM
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Robtard
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Exactly.

I do think he's the 'devil on your shoulder', who will slyly point Silver down a dark path.


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Last edited by Robtard on Mar 15th, 2017 at 06:59 PM

Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 06:56 PM
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KingD19
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The writers have basically said Hands is the driving I fluence into turning John into The Long John Silver.

Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 07:17 PM
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Makes sense. He's clearly trying to drive a wedge between Silver and Flint, wanting Silver to be the single undisputed leader of the pirate group while himself as the righthand.


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Old Post Mar 15th, 2017 11:45 PM
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Arachnid1
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I'm finally caught up in this show. It's been an outstanding ride. I'm glad I was able to marathon it all at once.

Flint, Silver, Vane, Rackham, and Rogers are all the best characters by far.

I like the subtle game of chess Rackham and Rogers have been playing since Rogers introduction. They've been constantly outdoing each other, and it looks like Rackham is going to get the last laugh. It honestly reminds me of a Spy vs Spy skit with them lol. These two have actually turned out to be my favorites. I preferred their entire conflict to everything happening with Flint, Bones, and Silver.

Flint, I hated the first two seasons. He was a heartless tool. He's grown on me exponentially these past two seasons. Every choice he makes is for the greater good. There is no emotion in it. He's a good and strong leader.

Silver has had the best character development of all, though for the worse. He's devolved into a more hatable and selfish character. His entire reputation and name was built by Billy, who he betrayed and tried to kill. This was a pretty major dick move. He was originally my favorite character when he was a more light and good hearted person just trying to survive. His new king persona isn't nearly as likable, though it is badass.


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Old Post Mar 16th, 2017 04:46 AM
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KingD19
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arachnid1


Silver has had the best character development of all, though for the worse. He's devolved into a more hatable and selfish character. His entire reputation and name was built by Billy, who he betrayed and tried to kill. This was a pretty major dick move. He was originally my favorite character when he was a more light and good hearted person just trying to survive. His new king persona isn't nearly as likable, though it is badass.



Well, he's supposed to be hatable and selfish along with charming and lighthearted as he is "Long John Silver", who has more emotions than pretty much the entire cast of Treasure Island. However, Billy brought that on himself 100%. He was so focused on making John betray Flint(which is another dick move) that he ignored Flint and Madi's logical argument about the slaves, which in turn turned all the slaves against them just like they said it would. Billy was the only bargaining chip they had to get the entire slave population on their side, which they sorely needed.

If Billy had just gone with the plan in the first place, it would have been a smooth takeover. Also, you're saying you wouldn't want revenge on the guy who got for instance say, your mother beaten to a bloody crisp with a flaming thatch broom? All because he was so gung ho about the here and now that he willingly ignored the future ramifications.

Old Post Mar 16th, 2017 05:49 AM
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Arachnid1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
Well, he's supposed to be hatable and selfish along with charming and lighthearted as he is "Long John Silver", who has more emotions than pretty much the entire cast of Treasure Island. However, Billy brought that on himself 100%. He was so focused on making John betray Flint(which is another dick move) that he ignored Flint and Madi's logical argument about the slaves, which in turn turned all the slaves against them just like they said it would. Billy was the only bargaining chip they had to get the entire slave population on their side, which they sorely needed.

If Billy had just gone with the plan in the first place, it would have been a smooth takeover. Also, you're saying you wouldn't want revenge on the guy who got for instance say, your mother beaten to a bloody crisp with a flaming thatch broom? All because he was so gung ho about the here and now that he willingly ignored the future ramifications.
Agreed but Billy has still caused more good so far than bad. That was a stupid emotional move on his part that made no sense. It was like the writers just threw that in for the drama. He also still brought all his men to the battle following that completely saving Silver and Flints ass, not to mention securing Max as a bargaining chip preventing her from reaching the Fort.

And even before that, Billy contributed tons. That lone instance wasn't enough to order him dead or tortured. Especially when Silver himself committed worse sins like repeatedly screwing over the crew before he became it's voice. Flint also has done worse than that by far. Neither of them ended up trying to kill the other over any of it (Flint not killing Silver for stealing the Urca gold from under him for example).


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Old Post Mar 16th, 2017 07:32 AM
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KingD19
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Agreed but Billy has still caused more good so far than bad. That was a stupid emotional move on his part that made no sense. It was like the writers just threw that in for the drama. He also still brought all his men to the battle following that completely saving Silver and Flints ass, not to mention securing Max as a bargaining chip preventing her from reaching the Fort.

And even before that, Billy contributed tons. That lone instance wasn't enough to order him dead or tortured. Especially when Silver himself committed worse sins like repeatedly screwing over the crew before he became it's voice. Flint also has done worse than that by far. Neither of them ended up trying to kill the other over any of it (Flint not killing Silver for stealing the Urca gold from under him for example).


All of the good Billy did before and after don't matter, even though he has been instrumental in this whole thing since episode 1. It's only the bad he did right then and there, as it goes far beyond just the pirates and rebels. Once the slaves got involved, they became equals as that was the whole point of freeing them. So now you have hundreds of people upset because of the dozens if not more than that killed and injured because Billy was so focused on being better than Flint, or getting revenge from seasons ago that he ignored both he and Madi(leader of all the slaves) who agreed and had sound, rational logic. So the only way to appease a third if not more of the forces they had was to offer Billy up on a platter. Putting in the caveat of keeping him alive shows just how hard it was for him to make the order.

But also at the plantation, Billy fully attempted to kill Flint and it seems Madi as well. For John to not have killed him simply over that was amazing, as Madi is Silver's unnamed wife I'm assuming from the books who looks after his affairs while he's out being a scoundrel.

Even when Silver f*cked everyone over, he found ways out because he was still useful in some ways, and he's pretty much the most devious f*cker on the show. Billy's kinda like Ned Stark in that he wears his emotions on his sleeve, and has no problem fully explaining what he wants and means. So he's far less able to do more than brute force or appeal his way through situations like that.

The rebels fully belong to John now. Flint's still at his side and his position is strengthened because ironically Billy trying to force them apart pushed them closer together. And now after imo being rightfully sentenced, he's fully cooperating with Rogers. I don't know if it's gonna be John, Flint, Hands, or even Madi. But someone is gonna gut Billy Bones.

Last edited by KingD19 on Mar 18th, 2017 at 02:32 AM

Old Post Mar 18th, 2017 02:30 AM
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Martian_mind
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Finally caught the finale. A great end to an amazing show.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2017 11:19 AM
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Arachnid1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Martian_mind
Finally caught the finale. A great end to an amazing show.
Weak finale IMO. It wrapped up everything to nice and happily for the pirates. The pirate age does not have a happy ending for those guys. I don't watch shows about pirates to learn that love conquers all or anything sappy like that. The only thing I liked was the resolution to Jack and Rogers beef. Holy hell was that satisfying (I know thats not how things ended for Rogers IRL, but I like to believe he stayed rotting in prision in the story and never returned to govern Nassau again). Despite that, I would have liked to get a real resolution to Jack and Bonny's story other than "they continued being pirates". Their story already had a dramatic ending IRL. Translate that over.

It also never really gave any true resolution to Flints story. Treasure Island already told us how he died before the show but how did he get there? They wouldn't allow him to leave the plantation, and it's not like he would leave with his love interest there. How did he end up where he was?

I'm also disappointed in certain Treasure Island characters not being translated over. Multiple characters were supposed to have been part of Flints crew when he was active but were never given life in the show. I would have liked to have Pew or Dr. Livesey translated over.

The only characters endings I can accept are Silvers and Billys, because it at least pointed towards setting up where they were going in Treasure Island. You can connect the dots for them.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2017 04:29 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Despite that, I would have liked to get a real resolution to Jack and Bonny's story other than "they continued being pirates". Their story already had a dramatic ending IRL. Translate that over.


Well, they ended their story with a nod to real life history, with "Mark" (Mary) Read joining up with the crew.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2017 06:53 PM
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Robtard
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It ends with the hints that Jack's going to be getting into another MFF threeway. That's a proper ending, imho.


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Old Post Apr 19th, 2017 08:13 PM
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