Giving a wildly inconsistent Luke who was fighting recklessly a good battle? It's impressive, no doubt, but it's not as impressive as it seems. And we can't forget how Luke seems to always put Caedus down quickly with the force when he's smart.
Yes, but out of all SW characters, Luke is the most inconsistent. How in the hell does one easily pin Caedus to a chair, yet get thrown around by some monk?
If by giving Luke a good battle, you mean injuring him, then yes, Caedus gave Luke a good battle. The problem is that Luke was fighting recklessly and barely even defending himself, allowing Caedus to score those hits on him. To draw a comparison, the first time Obi Wan and Maul fought in TCW, Obi Wan began to fight recklessly when Maul brought up Qui Gonn, allowing Maul to gain a significant advantage and score hits on Kenobi.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
I don't think anybody here qualifies for making assumptions about the meaning of the term Force-user in accolades assigned to Sith Emperor. I have provided additional examples (statements featuring The Ones) in which the same term have been assigned to The Ones.
In Star Wars, Force-users aren't just Jedi and Sith.
Abeloth wasn't a Force-user?
I advice you to revisit the sources featuring Abeloth and you might come across terms such as Force strength.
Wait, I decided to make your job easier a bit:
"Abeloth had a dozen times the Force strength Luke had, and he could do no more than keep her from crushing his throat."
Much like Abeloth, Sith Emperor also extended his reach to galactic proportions by imbuing his power within thousands of individuals whom he planted in various regions/organizations/planets to do his bidding unwittingly (Children). Much like Abeloth, Sith Emperor also possessed and switch avatars at will (Voices). Sith Emperor actually performed multiple tasks with his powers, simultaneously at a time, which is very impressive display of strength on part of any single Force-user; Sith Emperor simultaneously empowered thousands of individuals across the galaxy; simultaneously drained thousands of individuals (sometimes even from lightyear distances); simultaneously influenced the environment of Dromund Kaas with his powers and experiments; simultaneously engaged in combat situations; and even planned to pull off Nathema on galactic scale to complete his ultimate transformation to omnipotence after adequate preparation. In short, Sith Emperor literally multi-tasked with his Force abilities on a massive scale and some still think less of him which is baffling.
Well:-
"300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side. They argued briefly over whether to alert the Republic and Jedi Council, but Revan was already too consumed by arrogance and anger to consider the possibility of defeat. By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War."
HoT managed to defeat Sith Emperor in circumstantial way, the latter had invested much of his power in a galaxy-busting ritual prior to this encounter and seemingly didn't get ample time to fully recover his strength after being interrupted from a ritual of such a scope. This event seems like a Force-mediated development, reinforces the claim that The Force have its own will.
Not to take away from HoT as well, he was the only Jedi in the galaxy who had a chance at defeating even a vulnerable Emperor or his Voice. Anybody else would have flopped in his place.
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 19th, 2014 at 02:40 AM
2. Not what I said. 'Force wielder' is a term that seems to be used in regards to the species that the Ones are. 'Force-user' is what we've been arguing over. (Well, general usage, anyway.)
3. Okay. He was weakened, and he lost. In a sense, that's comparable to Abeloth). Regardless, I'm not here to debate how powerful Vitiate is or isn't with you. I've read those threads. They result in pages upon pages of the same enormous quote-vomit posts being repeated over and over again. My point was that Vitiate shouldn't be compared with the Ones. I've made that point, supported it, and that's all I have to say.
I like you. ^
Not saying I don't like LeGenD too though, he's a cool guy, despite his claims being "far fetched" most of the time. Then again he probably thinks the same about me, so it's cool.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Apr 19th, 2014 at 02:50 AM
You talking FotJ? The thing is Luke restrains himself, he generally doesn't go all out. But he wasn't holding back against Caedus. There are times of heavy amounts of PIS, but I don't see wh this is one of them.
Luke was straight up challenged by Caedus, it's really that simple. And he was defending himself. As for your TCW example, Maul already held a significant advantage before Kenobi became "reckless". Also, generally, when characters become reckless and give into their darkness they tend to fare far better just look at Luke vs Vader in RotJ.
Last edited by ares834 on Apr 19th, 2014 at 03:02 AM
I understand that Luke isn't gonna slaughter the monk with the force, but he naturally would try to protect himself from harm.
Except that re-reading that fight, half of it was Luke and Caedus beating the shit out of each other physically. Like they had a few clashes, a slash perhaps, but in between they threw a lot of punches and kicks. What significant advantage did Maul have over Kenobi before he mentioned Qui Gonn? I mean, he landed a kick on Kenobi, but that's really it. As for the darkness part yes, but as I said earlier it was just as much of a fist/kick fight as it was a lightsaber duel, if not more so.
Force-wielder and Force-user, both are same in terms of interpretation and used to represent any Force-user irrespective of alliances and conditions.
I have already posted a statement in which The Father have been dubbed as a powerful Force-user, here it is again:
"The Son was an embodiment of the dark side of the Force who dwelled on Mortis during the Clone Wars with his sister, the light-sider known as Daughter, and the powerful Force user known as Father, who tried to keep them in balance."
I can also post statements in which a mortal (e.g. Galen Marek) have been dubbed as a Force-wielder.
???
Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 19th, 2014 at 03:19 AM
There shouldn't be any debate. The Ones are straight up confirmed by T-canon (which overwrites all C-canon material it contradicts) to be the most powerful beings the Jedi ever met.
The Ones. They're called Force wielders. A species. In this case, not being used as a descriptive term to refer to someone who wields the Force. You could use Force-wielder interchangeably Force-user of course, as long as it's clear you're not talking about the Ones, but I was using it as a species name, which is unlikely to come up in a general conversation (most people just refer to them as the Ones, anyway).
I guess I could have saved a bit of headache by wording that originally as "Abeloth isn't the same species as the Ones", but a bit late for that now.
"Starkiller The code name for Darth Vader's Secret Apprentice. A powerful, almost primal Force-wielder, he was forged by Vader into a lethal living weapon that the Dark Lord groomed in secret - continuing the Sith tradition of treachery - in a bid to defeat the Emperor and rule the galaxy."
Satisfied?
Yes, Sith Emperor isn't like The Ones but all are Force-users.
Apr 19th, 2014 02:11 AM
