All I heard was bawwing and some conspiracy theory/appeal to motive (though to be fair, Bleach is pretty shit, I wouldn't argue that they'd lose to peak humans or such though)
Go cry some moar
__________________ "I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!
I said they're reliable so long as you go through the calc yourself, just as we would do here, then accept it. As Scream said, "frequently" unreliable.
And yes that's a nice analysis on why one illusion isn't another illusion. Genjutsus are explained to use chakra to manipulate the enemies five senses, just as his shikai is explained to be. Length being the main difference here. Know what else is similar? Both have been proven to fail against those that can detect the energy difference, aka it doesn't hide from those sensing with more than y he five basic senses.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
I did go through the calc, and it seemed reasonable enough to me.
Incorrect. Genjutsu does not manipulate the five senses, instead, the caster of the Genjutsu flows his own chakra into the others brain to control their chakra flow, and disrupt their senses.
Only those that bare chakra and or have a chakra network are susceptible to Genjutsu.
As for Kyoka Suigetsu. It's ability is Kanzen Saimin (Complete Hypnosis.) It gives Aizen the ability to completely control the five senses of anyone. The complete hypnosis of Kyōka Suigetsu is absolutely flawless; even if the target is aware of being under the hypnosis (Illusion), they cannot resist its influence.
Even if you can somehow sense its actual presence behind the hypnosis (Illusions,) you still can't escape it.
The sole way to escape the ability of Kyoka Suigetsu is to touch the blade itself before its complete hypnosis (Illusion) is activated.
You clearly have no idea of what your talking about.
Did I forget to mention that its pretty easy to escape Genjutsu?
The first one, is to disrupt the flow of your own chakra, hence ridding yourself out of the Illusion.
The second, is the Sharingan's ability to negate most Genjutsu.
And lastly, if a team-mate disrupts your flow of chakra, hence why normal Genjutsu don't work on Jins.
And as Stealth said apparently it's already been debunked on the very site.
Jiraiya tells Naruto that genjutsu works on the opponents five senses. Same end result.
Energy equivalency rule.
Completely, absolute, perfect, flawless, 100%, godlike... Up until Yama states that it's possible to sense the energy difference.
Now how many sensor types are there? How many can use a sixth sense? It may be a nice way to take off mid tiers, but the main threats hold the advantage (not to mention he'd likely be dead before he gets a chance to successfully show it to enemies.)
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
Dude, even if you can somehow sense its actual presence behind the hypnosis (Illusions,) you still can't escape it.
Do you not understand that?
No, Jiraiya says, the same thing I put down, that's still the canon rule of Genjutsu. (please log in to view the image)
Note the words 'Disrupt.'
Actually, I forgot to mention that its possible for the Rinnegan to nullify Eye Based Genjutsu, but its such a rare Dojutsu that it never crossed my mind.
Energy equivalence rule can only go so far, Naruto's and Bleachs powers are very different.
Actually, why in the world will an equivalence rule be used in this debate?
Also, give proof of its debunking otherwise that point is void.
As shown in his battle with Barragan, he can easily activate it in a second, without using the words, Shatter Kyoka Suigetsu, so your point is void.
As I said before, even if you can somehow sense Kyoka, you still can escape it.
Last edited by Kaldin on Aug 19th, 2014 at 02:12 AM
Equivalence rule. Most debating boards use it and assume powers will interact regardless, as a way to stop people from weaseling their way out of canon immunities and abilities and shit by saying things like "x magic resistance won't work against y magic because y magic is a different magic" and such and such
__________________ "I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!
Except Yama still says he can sense the difference. That so long as he doesn't focus on sight and touch, and relies on energy sensing, he can detect the real Aizen.
That only worked because Kyoka Suigetsu was stabbed into his body, and because he held onto the real Aizen. As I said before, you still can't escape the Illusion, unless you touch the blade before the Illusion is activated.
Only Yamamoto was ever able to sense the difference, but even he himself couldn't have escaped the Illusion, so your point is void.
I think you meant couldn't instead of could am I right?
Also, this isn't a debate between the Hst, so equivalence rule shouldn't be in place between those verses.
Why are you mentioning Yamamoto anyway? He's the ****ing Captain-Commander of the Gotei 13, the single most powerful being behind the Transcendent's.
These are the words in your scan.
'Genjutsu is something that works on your opponents five senses. To control the Chakra flowing through and linking their cranial nerves.'
This still goes with what I was saying.
By connecting what I said (And my scan.) and your scan this is what we will get.
'Genjutsu is something that works by the caster flowing his own Chakra into the brain, to control and link the cranial nerves (Which is in the brain,) to control the Chakra flow, and work on the opponents five senses, by disrupting their senses.'
Is everything here making sense? Also, only way for Genjutsu to work is not to have Chakra, but to have a Chakra Network, which is what the word controlling the flow of Chakra connects to.
Equalizing Chakra with Reiastu/Reiryoku will still mean Bleach doesn't have a Chakra Network, so Genjutsu still shouldn't work on Bleach characters, unless somehow a Chakra Network can be somehow added into Bleach chars already existing network.
That's all I have to say for now.
Sure it helped that it was impaled, but that was a secondary note from him stating he can sense it's energy. And for most that's all that's needed. Especially those with greater sensing capabilities. I'm mentioning it because he was part of the feat to do with sensing, which I'm sure he's great at. But to what extent?
Cool, so it messes with the five senses.
Hence the rule coming into play. A pointless response would be to say the genjutsu would just go through the Reistu in a similar way. This is what the rule is for.
__________________
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
You don't get it do you, even if you can sense it behind the Illusion you still can't break out of the Illusion, bloody ****ing hell, how many times do I have to drill this into your skull?
I doubt anyone in Naruto has the keen senses of the ****ing Captain-Commander himself.
No, it disrupts the senses.
I'm not going to bother with the latter.
Chakra Network is not an energy, that point is void. There's no logical way you can give Bleach a Chakra Network, it would just ruin their own Network, and then precede to ruin their powers.
And yet again, this is not a thread about Bleach vs Naruto, so a equivalence rule shouldn't be in motion between these verses.
I know how to debate perfectly fine thank you very much, you are the one that needs to learn how to debate. All you do is talk and talk, you don't even debate.
Sensing through doesn't mean anything, since you will still be in the Illusion.
Yamamoto is Yamamoto, that's all I need to say.
Though, someone like current Naruto, might, key word might, be able to sense the true presence of Kyoka behind the Illusion.
But what can he do about it?
Yama was lucky that Aizen decided to impale him, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to confirm his theory, nor would it have worked fully. The sensing that is.
KMC Community Forums
Aug 17th, 2014 12:45 PM
