It doesn't matter, the Rancors don't have Force Defenses. Be they stronger than normal or not, it makes no difference whatsoever in the face of a lightning storm.
Also, the closeness of the Rancors to the Temple is irrelevant. In fact, I would go so far as to call it a game mechanic. It not being a Nexus before Bane's time is silly, considering that Revan's time was closer to the time of it's inhabitance by the Rakatans.
Even if the temple wasn't a Nexus, it has nothing to do with the argument since Revan wasn't at the temple when he did this feat. The planet of Lehon itself is a Dark Side Nexus, dude.
They don't need a Force Defense. They wouldn't have one anyway if Revan wasn't on the planet. The Force can influence their overall strength.
It's not a game mechanic. The rancors appear in the backgrounds of several cutscenes actually. And if I recall correctly, there is a cutscene when you first enter the area, and you see the rancors moving toward you.
No. The temple, based off the tribes, is the most powerful part of the planet. Travel to the world and speak to the Rakata if you don't believe me. If that is only a faint nexus, the rest of the world must be .
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Why the hell would he not put those techniques in his holocron? That would be pretty counter-intuitive to the very idea of making one. We already know from RoT that Nadd's holocron was filled with sorcery because Bane gives Zannah all the info on sorcery that was in it. Bane might not have dared to use those rituals but he still knew how to perform them. He didn't need to have performed the Force Storm ritual before to have mastered it by the time he used it on Ruusan.
Do your damn homework, Ant. That variation on Force Drain "cannot be taught. It can only be learned via instinct." Revan can only use regular Force Drain, not Traya's variant.
Bane's willpower let him resist her attack, since it was targeting him in that area, but he still needed the burst of light to completely destroy the specters. He's being inaccurate when he says sorcery in general can be resisted via willpower though. I chalk that up to Drew's idiocy.
I don't believe I ever truly denied that.
Have another cookie. Yes, it means "very shortly before" or "immediately proceeding". That, combined with the fact that Rain knew the forest had exploded in flames indicates she was awake, while absolutely nothing indicates she was asleep.
In in that case I'd say this is an impossible point to determine due to the inconsistencies inherent in the sources. The comic, which is the source you're using to determine when Rain was asked about it, seems to have depicted her doing so immediately after the Storm finished. Which is then contradicted by the novel saying the storm stopped in the night. I find it likely the comic just goes from the Storm ending to the scene with Rain, thus making that internally consistent but still contradicted by the book.
It makes more sense than her blocking the storm in her sleep. THAT's ****ing retarded. SO retarded I'm considering not even dignifying it. It doesn't matter why she didn't ask until morning.
Bouncers communicate using telepathy. So Laa speaking in that manner makes sense.
She wasn't asleep though.
This is so ****ing stupid. I'm sorry Ant but I'm not wasting my time on this. You can't instinctively charge up the force in your sleep, that's so ridiculous I can't believe you're even suggesting it sincerely.
Or do you know it was only over her for a couple of seconds? That was just Bane being stupid and high on the power, of course it's not going to cover and consume the whole planet in seconds.
Look, I don't care why she only asked about it in the morning. Maybe she fainted after doing it. Maybe she had a wank for a few hours. It is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that she performed the feat and was obviously conscious when she did it.
As I said, you already admitted that if she can instinctively perform an attack as a child, she can likely do it as a Sith Lord AND that it's power would approach, equal or exceed that of her younger selves. That you take it back here only proves that I've already won and you realised that.
Bane's lightning is greater than the Force Storms, in terms of it's direct, focused destructive power. Bane was able to disintegrate beings with it even as of PoD, his level of power with it in DoE would be far greater than it and the Force Storm.
My argument is not debunked. You've already conceded to me.
Except the Force is omni-directional. He also doesn't need to transfer the energy anywhere, all uses of the Force come from the same place.
No, we're talking about the Force Bubble more. You suggested her not using one against Bane proves she can't use it to block lightning at all, despite force defenses have a proven ability to do that.
So you basically just agreed to my point with that "Yoda was just too powerful" thing. Bane was just too powerful to use a Force Bubble against.
I quoted some of your responses together since majority were you saying my sleeping theory suxs.
Once again, all of this is speculation. We don't know the contents in the holocron, and not *all* information of a user is transferred into that holocron. That's simply not how holocrons work. And some attacks just don't make sense with Darth Zannah having, like Sutta Chwituskak. Ultimately, unknown attacks are not going to affect someone on Revan's level. Also, there is a large difference from just knowing how to do something via textbook instruction and experiencing and completing it first-hand. Do not forget that Darth Revan had great knowledge on sorcery as well, and that his knowledge surpassed the entire academy.
"And there was far more than just the ancient practices of dark side sorcerers stored inside the Holocron."
―Darth Bane: Path of Destruction
You are getting this mixed up. Don't insult me when you are the one who is wrong:
Traya's method is teachable. Meanwhile, Traya states Nihilus' is not, as you just kindly provided the quote. There is already an established difference between them.
"Darth Traya indeed teaches the newly christened Darth Nihilus to harness his life-draining gift to radical heights"
―Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
I believe you were under the assumption that Darth Traya taught Darth Nihilus the art of Force Drain in general. That's wrong. She merely taught him how to expand his *wound* powers. Darth Nihilus is a confirmed wound in the Force. His Force Drain, like The Jedi Exile's, is different. It is out of instinct. They feed off others to satisfy their hunger (even if they don't know it). Traya doesn't do this. Also, have you already forgotten that those Sith Assassins who "feed on the Force" were "established by Darth Revan"? So yeah, Revan is highly advanced in Force Drain.
Inaccurate? Seriously? That's your excuse? The two times Darth Bane had to use the "burst of light" was to defend against sorcery on immense nexus'. The one was on Dxun, "a world infused with the power of the dark side." The other was Ambria, where they were both drawing on the "the power trapped there for thousands of years." You don't need to unleash a burst of light to defend yourself against sorcery, don't be ****ing stupid, bae. In Legacy, Cade Skywalker didn't need to unleash a blast of light to defend himself against that One Sith's sorcery. He overcame it through the power of his will.
PS: Any insults here are jokes, like the ones you directed at me.
Holy shit, have you been reading what I was saying? You are completely wrong.
The storm happens in the beginning of the comic. You don't see Rain until the very end.
As I proven earlier, they left around 8:30am. We have still yet to see Rain yet by this point.
Neph, I accept your (please log in to view the image). You failed to even write an educated defense. All you said was that my theory was shit, so it's not true. Seriously? I have proof and evidence for my theory. You are suggesting she sat there not doing anything for *hours*, and that the Force has an "on-and-off" switch which Force-sensitives use when they go to bed and then wake up.
Even if she was conscious, which was wasn't, that doesn't affect my point. Her Force Barrier feat is not an accurate demonstration of her power if she cannot do the same against Bane's lightning, which is weaker then the Storm's lightning. Case closed.
You serious? They combined the power of all the members participating in the ritual into Darth Bane's body. Bane confirms this. It well beyond Bane, or seemingly anyone (besides Hero of Umbara).
"He felt his strength surge as he channeled and focused the dark side from the others."
―Darth Bane: Path of Destruction
I disagree. The Force is harnessed in the midi-chlorians which are in various places throughout the body. They don't come from one particular place like you are suggesting. Take note that Corran Horan has Force Resistance, but cannot use Telekinesis. Not all aspects of the Force are the same. Look at Force Lightning compared to a Mind Trick for example. Totally different things, but both use the Force.
Example 3 : The space above Endor became a nexus immediately after Palpatine's death.
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We are completely getting off topic in some cases. Here is the argument: Can Darth Zannah's sorcery prove more effective then Revan's lightning?
We already established the telekinesis and the Force bubble, I believe.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
No. Read the dialogue. He resists the illusions and calls her "weak", then he attacks her with illusions of his own. This is confirmed when he says "I know my fear. Let me show you yours."
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
imo,Revan...Kreia said it best about Revan's power.And Darth Ant66 wrote a very powerful respect thread about Revan and his abilities. Darth Zannah is a talented user of Force Sorcery.
Winning against Revan is gonna take more than sorcery.
How is that not how holocron's work? What do you have to suggest that Nadd wouldn't have put all his knowledge into it? Holocrons are made to pass on your knowledge to future generations, what part of that suggests only partial information? And my point was that Zannah has access to a huge range of sorcerous abilities to call upon. Eventually she'd put Revan down with one of them, like she did Bane.
And Zannah has access to all of Revan's knowledge and much more, so pointing out his knowledge only helps my case.
*I* got it wrong? You are the one who is so very, very wrong here. Traya uses the exact same technique that Nihilus uses. It is not teachable nor did she learn it from standard means. Traya taught Nihilus how to increase his prowess with his ability, not how to perform it in the first place. I was not under that impression, which is stupid. She taught him much more than general Force Drain. But she didn't teach him
Revan establishing the Assassins means all of fvck and all. Revan does not have their technique as seen in Kotor II or Traya's drain, which is the same as theirs. Do you think Revan could do this:
(please log in to view the image)
Because he cannot. The above is proof that Kreia uses the same technique as Nihilus, which she herself states "leaves nothing in it's wake." And yes, the Sith Assassins use the same technique as Nihilus as well:
"The sect of assassins that chase you feed on the Force... what he does is simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve, in time."
The Sith Assassin's learned this on Malachor, following Nihilus and the Exile's example to learn it in a similar manner:
“What if other Jedi went to war as you did, suffered the same events, and emerged as you did. What if there was a crucible that trained such Jedi to consume and kill?”
“For you, Malachor was that crucible.”
“What's worse, is these Sith that we face... I fear that they have learned the lesson of Malachor all too well. It is what allows them to prey on Force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near.”
“Somehow, they have learned their hunger from you. And so you have brought about the end of the Jedi, and perhaps all the knowledge of the Force.”
Revan doesn't have Nihilus' technique, nor does he have Kreia's technique, nor does he have the Sith Assassin's technique. Because they all use the same technique and Revan doesn't have it. Revan has regular, common Force Drain. Nothing more.
Yes, Bane got it wrong. Try to resist Sorcery-based Force Blasts, powerful rituals stealing your essense and Sutta Chwituskak with willpower and see what happens. Thanaton didn't one-shot Nox by overwhelming her willpower. Sorcery has more techniques than mind-based attacks that can be reasonably resisted with will, it's only Drew's utter idiocy that seems to suggest otherwise.
WTF does a nexus have to do with shit? All that does is increase power, it doesn't change the way you can resist techniques. Don't be thick, love. In general you need to, you know, actually use the Force to resist the Force. Bane's light burst shreds Zannah's conjured specters so obviously it had an effect on the technique. It's impossible for you to prove Cade resisted it through will instead of the Force. That's not made explicit.
Also Bane wasn't drawing on Ambria. The power was trapped until Zannah drew on it, as your own quote proves.
I did read. You said the Storm finished in the morning and that was when Rain was next shown. So it would be soon afterwards.
I failed to write an educated defense because your argument is so mind-numbingly stupid that I didn't need one. Zannah instinctively blocked the storm. You cannot instinctively prep with the Force. That's the opposite of an instinctive reaction. That requires conscious thought. You have absolutely no proof at all beyond wild speculation. Prove that its possible. Prove that you can use the Force in your sleep. Prove that you can prep in your sleep and I might consider it a legitimate argument. Otherwise, and I mean this with affection, its just utter drivel. By far the worst argument you've made.
How is it not as accurate demonstration of her power? She was a child. As an infinitely more powerful Sith Lord, she'd obviously be better, even just as good, at channeling her power as she was then. You've already admitted to this.
__________________
Last edited by Nephthys on Jul 12th, 2014 at 11:09 PM
Hence why I said "direct, focused destructive power". All the members contributed, but that power was spread out over the whole storm. Bane's Lightning is concentrated into a focused blast of power. Hence why Zannah cannot block it. In a direct competition her defenses cannot block his lightning. But they don't need to to block Revan's.
Force Defenses can block lightning. Zannah has Force defenses. Zannah's Force defenses are enough to block Revan's lightning. Case closed.
The Force is omnipresent and can be used in any location instantly so long as you have visibility or you can sense the location. Even across the galaxy. Bane channels all his uses of the Force through himself, so he doesn't need to store power in a certain place to perform powers and in different places for other powers. He doesn't have a Force Lightning gland in his wrist and a Telepathy sac in his brain. It all comes from the same place. Changing tactics would be instantaneous, if you would even need to change anything at all to use a different ability than what you were considering using.
The things you mention are just different applications of the Force. They are only different in how they affect reality and how the Force is shaped. But the power to perform all those techniques comes from the exact same source, in every aspect. They are different once you use the techniques, before then they are the same: Force energy.
Horn just has no talent for TK.
Proof that it was immediate?
Also that was in space. There's no environment into corrupt.
Theres more to it than that.
No, we haven't. Just because YOU think we've established something doesn't make that true. We have not resolved the issue of who is superior in TK and we have no established whether she can use a Force Bubble.
Jul 5th, 2014 03:38 AM
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Though I will respond to your above point with the rest, if that makes you feel any better.
