I have to rethink this.
I believe CM is almost equal to Superman (when he is subconsciously holding back).
So 4x Kurse may be stronger than CM while a 2x Kurse about a touch stronger.
Stop trolling. I mean it. I already gave undeniable proof that Superman is at least several times stronger when he SUBCONSCIOUSLY stop holding back.
We have where Superman going from not being able to hurt DD (using all of his conscious might) to killing DD in a few panels (when he released his mental blocks). This is beyond a 5x increase.
We have batman outright stating Superman has mental blocks that makes him subconsciously hold back when members of the JL thought Supergirl was stronger. Meaning, Superman doesn't know he's holding back at times or can't consciously prevent it at times.
We have OWAW where it explicitly states and shows Superman subconsciously holding back and Superman having to be trained through meditation and hypnotize himself to release those mental blocks to be on a insane level he never reached. He went from fighting probes for hours to one shotting them like fodder. This is more than a 5x increase.
We have Superman increasing his power over the years (he got several amps) after he an CM fought evenly before. He has gotten at least 3x more powerful over the years. From mountain moving to planet lifting.
Lastly, you are an idiot.
Why do you even post when you don't ever debate. All you do is enemy D.C. characters. Strength doesn't win forum fights idiot. Whose stronger has absolutely nothing to do with the winner when two characters have different power sets. CM is faster and can't be touched if he doesn't want to be. Kurse has no super speed. CM has flight and can bfr Kurse to outer space at any time in the fight. This alone proves that idiots only see strength.
P.S. if two beings are holding back and appear to be equals, that doesn't mean they are equal. One can be holding back much more than the other. For example, CM could be twice as strong when he stops holding back and Superman 5x as strong. CM never ever showed a 5x or more increase in strength when he stop holding back.
Calculate your way out of this. So all that BS crap and calculations you dreamed up one night is thrown out the window with the pot of piss you just posted.
It does not matter, EVERY writer has them as equals and NOT ONE WRITER has changed it even to this day. H1A8s BS crap about mental blocks is just that, BS. Superman mental blocks are there because he had to practice MENTALLY holding back so that he did not have to constantly monitor himself when around or fighting WEAKER characters. That's what batman was talking about. Superman does not gain 5x his strength by not holding back or releasing mental blocks. I know its a crossover, but look at when marvel and DC had hulk and superman fighting when something was buzzing around hulk ear controlling him, hulk was getting angry and was about to overpower superman and Marvel made it clear that hulk was getting stronger by the second, Do you think DC is NOT going to showcase superman in the face of a rival company if superman could stop holding back or drop his BS mental blocks to compete???? What do they do? They make him sun-amp. That's the ONLY way he can get stronger. His strength is set in stone, thats why oh smart ass braniac said that superman would not normally be able to push warworld. He had to sun-amp. He even stated himself that he did not have to worry about holding back against BA because he knew BA would have beaten his ass if he did. If superman wants to stop holding back, then so will his peers and keep it equal, but not one of them is getting any stronger unless you are the hulk.
He wants DC characters to have his make believe mental blocks or 5x strength increasing dreams and Marvel characters are looking on crying...... in his dreams..... Why do you think he picked the number 5x for supermans strength increase??.....ANSWER.... Because Kurse gained 4.
So are you really going to ignore on panel proof? Should I report you?
The OWAW storyline PROVES the mental block thing. Superman increased his might by more than 5x through meditation and training. He went from fighting a single probe for hours to one shotting them like fodder. You can't ignore this evidence at all. The DOS storyline proves it as well. Superman went from using all of his believed might to not being able to even cause DD any pain to killing him in a few panels. It was talked about in the comic that Superman has to let go and be willing to kill in order to win. This again, is beyond a 5x increase.
Superman and CM are equals on normal terms (before the upgrades). You have no proof that all writers view Superman and CM as equals (especially the writers than wrote OWAW and DOS). You are just speculating without proof. Also, writer's opinions on who is stronger don't count here anyway. We go by on panel evidence. If you ignore on panel evidence in favor of things that are not allowed then you are breaking forum rules and will be reported.
1. That's pre crisis and doesn't count. You can get warned for this.
2. I already gave proof that Superman subconsciously holds back (he needs to meditate or be under dire circumstances to break free of those mental blocks). Take that as a retcon if you want. Releasing the blocks gives him 5x or more increase.
3. Superman has gotten several upgrades in his power over his recent post crisis years. CM wasn't stated to get any upgrades at all (other than Billy becoming the wizard Shazam). So even if they started even in the past, then without the retcon, Superman is still several times more powerful due to the upgrades alone. The upgrades plus the retcon makes Superman significantly stronger than CM.
I randomly picked 5x. It had nothing to do with Kurse. I was estimating. In your opinion what is the strength increase of an individual that goes from fighting something for hours with little progress to one shotting them in a fraction of a second like fodder? Or fighting someone for hours and not causing them any pain to killing them in mere moments?
Also, I don't view Superman as equals to Thor in strength. I view Superman as many times stronger than Thor. So again, the 5x has nothing to do with Kurse.
using a select few showings, wherein superman steps WAY out of character and becomes as strong as the plot needs him to be, is a silly line of 'logic'. we use *average* showings to gauge characters here--not 2 or 3 cherry-picked feats. pretty much any character you can name has stepped WELL beyond their 'normal' tier at *some* point--doesn't mean these random high showings become their average level, though. this is day one stuff, tbh.
that being said: superman and shazam have ALWAYS been portrayed as near-equals EVERY time they've battled on panel. hell, on more than one occasion shazam has been able to gain the ever-so-slight advantage, because supes is vulnerable to his magic. where strength alone is concerned, however, they are all but identical. the writer intent is absolutely irrefutable.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Jul 20th, 2014 at 03:55 PM
Typical of LBJ to screw up and then go on a rant to cover his ass. You posted a Pre-CRISIS scan because you're clueless.
Just because you think Superman has never been written as superior doesn't prove anything. Superman has stalemated Captain Marvel despite fighting several times overnight, having had some of his energy drained, and being effected by Kryptonite to an unknown but increasing degree since he started fighting. He even caught Cap's punch.
And your refusal to accept Superman's dynamic strength doesn't mean you're right. You bringing-up Warworld is a strawman. He does indeed get stronger, but two facts about you mean you're going to deny it.
And your interpretation of a Pre-CRISIS crossover that's even more non-canon due to those DC/Marvel crossovers taking place on a separate, shared Earth further proves your desperation, Pete.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
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Jul 20th, 2014 01:15 AM
Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
