There's a HUGE difference between a writer talking about a scene he actually wrote and a writer not talking about anything he wrote. And it doesn't matter if Pak was "unsure," he went with Superman did. Now if you can prove that wasn't Pak, that's another matter.
And I'm not surprised at all you've gone zeta male on me, not even trying to pretend to be a beta, and ignoring me asking where you've been on the Superman vs Wonder Woman thread.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
Carver, your hate and lowballing of Superman should stop. Honestly buddy. Hulk is the top dog strength wise in the Marvel U, so is Superman in the DC U, this is their "Thing". Accept that both are euqals, have dynamic strength and be good with it. You can surely imagine that this is how both companies will always treat them, as equals strength wise, even if Superman has the better strength feats.
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The irony is with the vast majority of the "debunked" examples, whoever "debunked" them is guilty of the very out of context and blah blah blah BLAH whining he claims is going on. But an idiot like you would be oblivious.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
Wenn through it and honestly, nothing was debunked. You make at least a case with scans and enough information. This blog is just very purely researched, scans out of context and even in some wrong order and smalles of a butthurt DBZ fan.
I believe this. I just give the edge to Hulk between the two, as everything Hulk does he does without the benefit of Superman's remaining power set.
Logical?
Maybe not, but its my HO.
However, what's interesting about that post are the additional scans to certain feats DC fans like to showcase, like the one, where Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter pulled the Earth.
They then say that they're all equally strong and everyone is pulling 1/3 of the planets weight, which is flawed in itself, because nothing tells us that Wonder Woman for example really is pulling 1/3 of the weight. She could be pulling only 1/5 of the weight and Martian Manhunter and Superman are doing all the rest.
The other flaw is that in the next scans you see them admiting that they can't pull the Earth and Green Lantern helps them out.
I just don't like when people are overhyping certain stuff. In a different thread I said that destroying the Earth is not an easy task. If I say that Superman can't destroy the Earth Superman fanboys will come at me and acuse me of lowballing and being biased towards Marvel, while at the same time I say that not even Thanos can destroy the Earth judging by how he wanted to destroy the Earth, but had to rely on a bomb in Infinity.
The same goes for my favorite character the Sentry, where some people say that he is an universe-buster, just because his energy expanded past the Microverse, but that statement is flawed as ****, because there is a lot of context to that certain showing as well, which negates him having an universal power output, even if he gets the chance to cut loose.
The only two characters, where I would agree with planetary level strength (and more) at the moment are Marvel's Hulk and Hyperion. Hulk simply, because he is the Hulk and Hyperion, because he had two very wonky feats.
Hyperion's first feat was him holding two planets apart until the colliding universes themselves destroyed the two planets. I thought that feat was ridiculous as well and expected it to have much more context to it, but that somehow never happened.
Then Hyperion even managed to stop an approaching planet, which looked like it was bigger than the Earth, which again is an insanely high showing, but it had purpose and all that.
So yeah, I disagree with you for Superman trying to test his strength. I of couse understand your argument and it makes sense and all that, but my problem is still that Superman hasn't done anything similar to that before and also not afterwards.
Him ripping Doomsday apart doesn't really validate it in my opinion, because Doomsday hasn't been established. It's not the Doomsday we saw during DOS, who ran through leagues of superheroes with relatively good feats. If DOS Superman ripped that Doomsday apart, it would have been a different story. This Doomsday didn't face the same quality of opponents. He faced Wonder Woman, who is very downgraded in DCnU. It's not Pre DCnU Wonder Woman, but it looks like some people on boards think that DCnU Wonder Woman has access to all the feats of the prior Wonder Woman version additionally to the current version. That's not the case. This new Wonder Woman is a much weaker version.
The only character in DCnU that I view as a serious threat is Darkseid. He has been portrayed as very powerful with his planet busting. Helspont and H'El are quite good as well, but H'El for example is how I imagine Hyperion being in the DCnU. Simply on another level, until the DCnU have caught up with feats.
Yeah, he was most likely butthurt about the SrewAttack Superman vs Goku fight. Did you see it and where would you rank Goku? At his best he is a mid herald imo. ^^
I don't remember the story but there might have been context behind it, as is mostly often the case. However, writers are inconsitent and Characters suffer from it a lot, might it be Hulk, Superman, Sentry or Thor. Different writers different opinions and the ones suffering most are those chars who are published a lot.
I think it is easy to destroy Planets in each universe, for heralds at least, but near impossible to destroy earth, because it is the center of all stories. Alternate Earths have been destroyed in Marvel and DC, with ease by Superboy Prime for example.
I agree with Hype, Hulk, would add Thor and Sentry, and in DC some more but this is the point where our opinions differ^^. Which is nothing bad imo.
Superman was never beaten like this before, he was almost helpless against Helspont. It's like overconfident boxers who get beaten for the first time in their live, they train, they doubt, they test, to improve if something like this happens again. Also Darkseid is a thread and Superman needs to expand or find his limits for the sake of all.
The Doomsday threat seemed real enough and sure he didn't fight teams of heroes but we will see what happens with Superdoom, which is also an indicator of Doomsdays power imo. Though the idea of Superdoom ist just plain stupid and unnecessary...
No worries, I read it and prefer a wall of text sometimes, that explains an opinion thoroughly than a poor statement .
I've seen the Death Battle and I agreed 100% with it.
I have yet to disagree with any Death Battle actually, because they actually invest a lot of time in researching the abilities and feats of all the fighters and go with the most logical outcome.
And Dragonball characters are really hard to place on tier lists. I would never argue against Superman or any other mid to high herald level character in a fight against DB warriors.
DB warriors have a very decent damage output, when it comes to energy attacks. I do see them being planet busters, when it comes to that, but I also see Superman and co. being able to tank more damage than DB warriors can.
For example:
Can Superman survive being shot at with a Kamehame-Ha? Yes.
Can Superman make a move before Goku even manages to gather energy for a Kamehame-Ha? Damn yes, he can.
Can Goku survive Superman's first punch? I really, really doubt that.
What holds DB warriors back is their durability. They might be able to survive the strongest energy blasts, because it's all about their KI energy, flow and disruption of it, but every time you see them engaging in a physical battle they take damage quickly. They take a looot of damage, much more than when they shoot laser beams.
I've seen Goku crying after getting hit by a tiny rock (tossed by Krilin for fun).
That's something Superman and Thor wouldn't even notice. Of course DB warriors can amp their durability up, but the limits to their durability against physical damage are obvious in every single fight. Frieza has been cut open by energy attacks and a sword, even though he is a planet buster, when it comes to energy projection.
Plot wise the Earth has that protection of course, but then again, if you don't look at it as if it was a comic written by a writer and look at it as a different universe, then most of these characters only destroyed unnamed planets. Still a great feat, but it's not Earth and not even Thanos was capable of destroying Earth, but had to rely on tech.
Superboy-Prime is of course a different animal :-)
Look at it this way:
Do we agree on the fact that Darkseid wasn't really portrayed as a teambuster in pre DCnU comics?
I've never seen Darkseid engaging the entire Justice League in straight up fights and dominate the majority of them. However, I've seen Darkseid losing to Superman multiple times in straight up 1v1 battles.
Now in DCnU we see Darkseid not only being portrayed as very well capable of facing the entire Justice League, but also capable of beating many, many Superman's in 1v1s and destroying planets on a regular basis.
To me Darkseid is the one, who visibly got an upgrade. And he was introduced for the first time during the early storyline in the comics. It's a new universe after all. Sure, some characters might remember stuff from the past, but at the same time a lot has changed as well. For example Superman establishing himself in Metropolis and becoming Superman, while in pre DCnU he already had the idea of being Superman and having his suit, when he went to Metropolis.
That's why I'm sceptical, when it comes to Doomsday. I don't view Doomsday as the same guy, who wrecked shit in pre DCnU and I also don't view Wonder Woman as the same amazon, who fought in pre DCnU. They got a fresh start and need to establish themselves and so far they haven't really done that.
The way I look at DCnU right now is by taking Superman as the measurement. I personally think that the current Hyperion would beat the current Superman and that's why I don't take Wonder Woman and Doomsday seriously. Now if I had a reason to believe that Doomsday would be able to put up a fight against Hyperion, then it would be an entirely different story, but there is pretty much not even a single reason for me to believe that Doomsday is capable of fighting at such a level. So far he beat Wonder Woman, who is weak and got ripped apart by Superman, who I rate below Hyperion.
And again, it's not lowballing, it's simply how I personally view the current power levels in the DCnU universe. There is no doubt in my mind that over time Superman will get boosted to insanely high level.
If there is one thing I don't like about Marvel comics then it's how their writers don't really give a damn about characters and are not afraid of letting them job, simply to proceed with the story faster. When it comes to DC comics the writers there grew up with Superman and co, view them as their babies and would never allow Superman to have all too many questionable jobbing moments. That's why DC heroes are much more consistant than Marvel ones.
You strike me as a very smart guy, so do this: Imagine that Superman (no matter if pre DCnU or DCnU) was in the Marvel universe. You KNOW that he would have jobbed a lot, simply because the majority of characters on Marvel Earth can't really compete with powerhouses otherwise and would be totally useless.
Look at Secret Invasion. Sentry got sent into deep space by a random Skrull shifting into the Void and telling him to piss off. So Sentry, who could have stopped the entire Secret Invasion judging by his power set, was away for the entire story so that the street level heroes could have their event.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 25th, 2014 07:40 AM
Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
and then Pak said that Hulk at his best can never beat Zeus and Hulk just got beat and that Zeus is just simply out of WBH league.
F*ck you I do what I want!! 
