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Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » H/P Doomsday, Pre-Crisis Solomon Grundy, & Pre-Crisis Validus vs Gorr, WBH, & Odin

H/P Doomsday, Pre-Crisis Solomon Grundy, & Pre-Crisis Validus vs Gorr, WBH, & Odin
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deathslash
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I thought GDS Darkseid wasn't amped, didn't he use the relics to return himself to full power?


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2014 07:24 PM
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deathslash
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GDS darkseid wan't amped, he was using the relics to return himself to his full power.


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Old Post Jul 30th, 2014 07:29 PM
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operator616
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Yes he was amped. And there's no doubt about it.

After he absorbed the orb, he said that he was fulfilled, and after that he stole Mordru's and TT's powers (eventually revealed to be a controller but that was later on).

And he mindraped Daxam in its entirety, something we know standard PC Darkseid is not capable of doing.

And he could open space warps, large ones at that, something which he never had. I guess it's a coincidence that he started manifesting new powers.

Doesn't get any clearer than that, tbh.

Old Post Jul 30th, 2014 09:28 PM
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quanchi112
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Yes he was amped. And there's no doubt about it.

After he absorbed the orb, he said that he was fulfilled, and after that he stole Mordru's and TT's powers (eventually revealed to be a controller but that was later on).

And he mindraped Daxam in its entirety, something we know standard PC Darkseid is not capable of doing.

And he could open space warps, large ones at that, something which he never had. I guess it's a coincidence that he started manifesting new powers.

Doesn't get any clearer than that, tbh.
thumb up


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 03:12 AM
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carver9
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I meant to say team 2 stomps. Dang.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 03:32 AM
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LordofBrooklyn
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Operator, please answer the following questions.

What in your opinion is Superboy's average level of power?

What multiple of power is Validus operating at in reference to Superboy?


We can proceed from there.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 03:43 AM
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deathslash
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Yes he was amped. And there's no doubt about it.

After he absorbed the orb, he said that he was fulfilled, and after that he stole Mordru's and TT's powers (eventually revealed to be a controller but that was later on).

And he mindraped Daxam in its entirety, something we know standard PC Darkseid is not capable of doing.

And he could open space warps, large ones at that, something which he never had. I guess it's a coincidence that he started manifesting new powers.

Doesn't get any clearer than that, tbh.
I guess he was also amped when he created those clones of superman, the Guardian, Kalibak, Orion, and Lydea Mallor since he'd never shown that power before. Just because darkseid doesn't show his vast array of exotic abilities, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have them. Even after a good degree of his powers had waned, he still tooled superman and supergirl with ease and then still went on to create validus.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 04:14 AM
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deathslash
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
I meant to say team 2 stomps. Dang.
too late, there are no take backs


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 04:16 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Uh, you're right. Being billions of times stronger than them and being trans doesn't make sense.
So, he isn't trans. Simple as that.
quote:
Which is why im not asking you to take that statement literally. But its implication is quite clear. Sun Eater dwarfs them, which is why they had to amp themselves. Perhaps it's not "billions" of times more powerful than them, but well above them for sure.
You're backpeddling now. Never a good sign.
quote:
And i even said that Sun Eater could be regarded as skyfather level depending on the way you look at it. Either way though, Sun Eater is not on Odin's level (high skyfather) and still well above Validus.
If he's billions of times more powerful than LOSH and Validus, he's above Odin. No two ways about it.

quote:
And yeah, Thor giving Odin a fight is a low showing for Odin, which is also weird. Since Odin was willing to kill Thor yet Thor was holding his own for a while, despite the fact that before that story Odin has outright depowered Thor instantly from Asgard (while Thor was on Earth). He's depowered Thor in JiM #101, JiM #113, Thor #145 previously, so he could've done the same thing instead of fighting and then kill Thor (which he eventually did not of course, but that's besides the point).
Not so fast bro. The same Odin who was destroying galaxies wasn't able to KO Thor with several bloodlusted attacks. Was that a low showing for Odin too?



quote:
Scan #1: White witch saying "Not since Darkseid have i seen so much power" is a reference to GDS, where Darkseid was amped.
Really? Humor me where he is stated to be amped.

quote:
Scan #2: In the Legion continuity Darkseid is best known for GDS (where he was amped), and that's what made him so dangerous a foe. So the bio saying "he's a foe in Darkseid's class" is true as far as threat level goes. Because in GDS, Darkseid amped himself to a point where he could become a TT level foe (not to mention that's a 1988 bio and TT later had more feats)
There's a similar statement in an '87 bio; which also states that he's a peer of Darkseid, but goes on to say that his personal abilities are not known:
Nice excuses.

quote:
Good for Darkseid I guess.

quote:
So they're referring to his threat level given that they don't know the extent of his personal power. After all, in his very first appearances TT looked like a weakling, and used tech to battle the Legionnaires. And Darkseid was such a high level threat only because he amped himself.
You think Trapper was a weakling around COIE? El oh El.



quote:
And Odin defeated Mangog as well. In the same arc no less, and while he possessed the Odinsword.
So? He was still oneshotted by mangog. Guess power doesn't translates into physical strength.



quote:
Because Validus is no Mangog.
Yeah, he is vastly superior. One gets felled by a punch from Thor, one no sells Superboy and Mon-El. Just compare Mangog's fights with Thor and Validus' "fights" against Superboy and Mon-El and you'll see how superior Validus is.



quote:
Lowballing? laughing out loud

So pointing out that Validus was confirmed to be below 2 trans level characters (or skyfather in Sun Eater's case, it's debatable imo) is lowballing?
Yes. Billions of times being powerful than Validus and you're calling that as Trans? GTFO. HP Doomsday is trans and I would laugh at anybody who says he is even 10 times stronger than Superman.

quote:
And pointing out that pulling a galaxy worth of planets is not Superboy's average is lowballing too?
Using "world moving" as low feats? It certainly is.

quote:
But i guess just because im arguing against the DC side, i must be lowballing them.
Not really. But nice deflection though.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 04:41 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
Location: Always second place

quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Already addressed. Let's not repeat ourselves in various quotes.
Nope. You're flat out wrong on that.



quote:
You'll notice that I was referring to Mangog when i said that. Prof. T.C McAbe was asking why would Odin not use time stop, i said that why would he need to do that given that he can cut him from his power source.
And how is cutting your own creation from his power means you can do that to everyone else?

quote:
Well that, and he rarely uses that power. Because the same can be said for Thor, who can also stop time in a limited area, and he could do that in the Mangog time period. Thor froze Odin once in Thor #198 so that Hela couldn't claim him, and also froze a limited area in JiM #110. (Mjolnir's time capabilities were later drained though).
What's your point here?

quote:
Prof. T.C McAbe apparently thought that given that Odin didn't use time stop on Mangog, he can't use it on Validus. Which he can, but wouldn't need to.
You can talk to Prof on that. I didn't mention time stop so quit bringing it against me.



quote:
133 you mean.
Right.

quote:
And it's not like Thor was facing Ego face to (world-big) face. He was inside him, and Ego was fighting him with some anti bodies, then Thor freed himself from Ego, he did some damage, but nothing permanent.
Haha, really?

quote:
Well he actually didn't.
Well, he did.



quote:
Those are different scenarios from the ones concerning Superman.
Nice dodging.

quote:
Regardless of its capability of causing collateral damage, the key is in the power of the blast itself. For example, PR Owen blasted Beyonder with a multiverse-busting attack and it didn't even destroy the building they were in.
So, it was a hyperbole. How powerful was the blast that it didn't caused any damage to the celestial armor and then Thor's hammer blows were chipping the armor.



quote:
Well actually i never argued Thor > PC Superman/Superboy. In fact i believe it's the opposite. But that doesn't mean we have to blow PC characters out of proportion like Prof. is doing.
If Thor is below Superboy then so is Mangog below Validus.

thumb up

quote:
And if this is your way of saying that Mangog sucked then i already gave 2 reasons apart from Mangog handling Odin, with which we can gauge his power. And it makes sense to be comparable to Odin. It's also been stated on panel.
I didn't say Mangog sucked. Just that beating odin physically isn't as impressive as beating Superboy or Mon-El.



quote:
You would understand the point if you followed the discussion instead of jumping blindly to defend Superboy.
I'm jumping on nothing. I just saw too much marvel wanking from you and bran. It was ridiculous.

quote:
Prof. T.C McAbe was using the Superboy #140 feat as some sort of an average feat for Superboy, and then applying it to Mon-el and Ultra-boy as well.

By mentioning those showings from the same title where Superboy performed this uber feat, i was explaining to him that it's definitely not his average .
And I agreed.

quote:
Simple.
Is it?



quote:
A one-shot surprise attack.
Three PC characters suckershotting someone would knock them out. Unless they are abstracts or something.

quote:
And no, it won't KO Odin too.
It certainly would. A surprise shot from masterson with mjolnir stunned Loki in Odin's body.

(please log in to view the image)

(please log in to view the image)

So pardon me if I don't believe in this Odin hype.

quote:
Already addressed the overpowering part earlier.
Brushing it aside as a low showing? What about this? Odin hammered Thor with mjolnir and still couldn't knock thor out in Fear Itself 1.





quote:
I was never arguing about physical power in particular. Though i can also make an argument about it since Odin can easily alter his size to a point where he dwarfs planets.
And that'd be as in character as Thor godblasting every one aka not at all.

quote:
Yeah, like JiM #94, one of Odin's very first appearances.
So?

quote:
In any case, i never said that Odin is without low showings. When we consider average showings of Odin and Validus, Odin's is clearly far better.
In physical strength and durability? He isn't even in the same league.



quote:
Dude, are you paying attention or not? Even if Highfather was universal level in power (which he most definitely isn't), he was near powerless in that instance.
So, highfather was universal level in power at a nearly powerless state? Because this "circular reasoning" that Highfather was never universal level so even though he beat a universal power at that point, he still never performed that feat.

quote:
Let's start with Highfather being universal in power. Where are you getting that exactly? Because his best feat was in New Gods #14, where he one-shotted the individuals through which Beldam manifested. And one of those individuals was easily handling Orion. Highfather one-shotted them all while he was in New Genesis, which at that same time period (in Mr Miracle v1 #19, 21) was confirmed to be beyond all time and space.
You yourself provided the scan where he beat a universal darkseid.

erm

quote:
this is impressive, but not universal level. He's a Trans-level character, just like Darkseid.
You've said that Darkseid is skyfather in previous posts. Backpeddling already?

quote:
Unto being weakened though. Given that it's the 3rd time this is getting ignored, i might as well post scans to confirm this.

The Adventure Comics #459-460 story was a continuation from where New Gods #19 left off. And Highfather was near powerless in that instance. Read what he says in NG #18:

http://i.imgur.com/i2R4zUj.jpg?1

That's the Highfather whom Darkseid faced.
You're making him more impressive. If a weakened Odin beats a fully powered Galactus, it doesn't means Galactus is puny. Does it?




quote:
Not sure how's that relevant. It happened, period.
So?

quote:
Darkseid wasn't taking on the entire LOSH and winning. Not to mention that GDS was an amped Darkseid.
What? At the end he took a combined blast from LOSH and wasn't even harmed. Where was he stated to be amped?

quote:
Already addressed this part. Darkseid was compared to them on the basis of being a threat on their level. And he achieved that through amping.
Again excuses.

quote:
No, Neither Pre nor Post crisis Darkseid is in the same league as Odin.
Pre-crisis sure is. Show me Odin oneshotting someone like Mon-El in coma.



quote:
That's good, although irrelevant since the fight is not limited to h2h. And even if it is, one could just as easily argue in Odin's favor.
Lulz. This is pure marvel wanking, nothing more.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:04 AM
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psycho gundam
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lol.

thor > odin in fisticuffs, right?


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:15 AM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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I like how amazing showings for Thor translate into poor feats for Odin. Like Thor withstanding multiple blasts from Silver Age Odin who in the same story was destroying Galaxies in his battle with Infinity for the fate of the Universe and effortlessly healed the damage done across the Universe. In the era were Odin was more or less at the peak of the food chain. Even more irrelevant since it was established that Odin was far beyond Thor and could easily end him.

It's the same backwards thinking that has Martian Manhunter as the greatest shit ever in one thread (I.e. not Superman) and worthless garbage in another thread (I.e. vs Superman).

Also, when Masterson Thor hit Odin, it was Loki in Odin's body (Which Pr said is not applicable like 1 day ago in another thread) which was also noticeably weakened. What an incredibly relevant bit of lowballing, especially since it's not as if it's done the same to other Skyfather level beings and beyond.

Just so backwards....


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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Jul 31st, 2014 at 05:45 AM

Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:40 AM
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Cosmic_Beings
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Team Gorr demolishes


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:45 AM
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deathslash
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Cosmic_Beings
Team Gorr demolishes
no they don't


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:58 AM
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abhilegend
Prince of All Saiyans

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by psycho gundam
lol.

thor > odin in fisticuffs, right?

No, but Odin isn't so above Thor that he can't affect him. Just recently in FI, a shot from Thor put Odin on his ass.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I like how amazing showings for Thor translate into poor feats for Odin. Like Thor withstanding multiple blasts from Silver Age Odin who in the same story was destroying Galaxies in his battle with Infinity for the fate of the Universe and effortlessly healed the damage done across the Universe. In the era were Odin was more or less at the peak of the food chain. Even more irrelevant since it was established that Odin was far beyond Thor and could easily end him.

It's the same backwards thinking that has Martian Manhunter as the greatest shit ever in one thread (I.e. not Superman) and worthless garbage in another thread (I.e. vs Superman).

Also, when Masterson Thor hit Odin, it was Loki in Odin's body (Which Pr said is not applicable like 1 day ago in another thread) which was also noticeably weakened. What an incredibly relevant bit of lowballing, especially since it's not as if it's done the same to other Skyfather level beings and beyond.

Just so backwards....

Cry more. And even in that era Galactus/Ego/Watchers were easily on Odin's level.


And I don't give a shit about destroying galaxies or universe. I go solely on how characters measure up to each other, mangog has never destroyed even a planet and he oneshotted Odin. The same Thor who was taking attacks from Odin got nearly killed by Durok and electricity some issues later.

erm

Odin's body was weakened? Got any proof? And it was just his soul in Odin's body, it wasn't like he stole Odin's power. And stunning skyfathers with a single hit is Thor's average now? Lulz.


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Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 06:10 AM
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operator616
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
So, he isn't trans. Simple as that. You're backpeddling now. Never a good sign.
If he's billions of times more powerful than LOSH and Validus, he's above Odin. No two ways about it.

Not so fast bro. The same Odin who was destroying galaxies wasn't able to KO Thor with several bloodlusted attacks. Was that a low showing for Odin too?


He may as well be trans if we don't take the "billions" statement literally and instead understand the implication of the statement; that SE dwarfs them, but not by billions of times.

The word "billion" is used to indicate huge number not necessarily literally as it is. This is basic stuff. I admit that earlier i didn't give it much thought, because i was basing SE power, based on it being a gradual galaxy buster (Destroys stars one by one), while not factoring in its battle with LOSH/FF. Though now that i think of it, and take everything into consideration, i can see that it could be regarded as low skyfather. Considering the below:

Anyway, i don't care that much whether it's high trans or low skyfather, because either way, it's not on Odin's level period. It is a galaxy buster, but it's a gradual one. It destroys stars one by one:

http://i.imgur.com/wNZMkvo.jpg?1

And after their battle with it, Tharok literally build a bomb within minutes which blew it up. Superboy said that he could have survived the explosion if he went (but couldn't since he was still weakened):

http://i.imgur.com/RUb4bin.jpg

And it's confirmed in a retelling of Secrets of LOSH #3:

http://i.imgur.com/Di6GZ12.jpg?1

"only Superboy could have survived"

So like i said, it might as well be trans.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

Not so fast bro. The same Odin who was destroying galaxies wasn't able to KO Thor with several bloodlusted attacks. Was that a low showing for Odin too?


It is a high shown for Thor, and a low showing for Odin, obviously. Since he's depowered Thor 3 times before that instance.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

Really? Humor me where he is stated to be amped.

Nice excuses.

Good for Darkseid I guess.

You think Trapper was a weakling around COIE? El oh El.


I already proved that he was amped. See my previous and upcoming response to deathslash.

Empty claim. "Nice excuse" isn't a refutation. It's just an indication that you have no counter. Good to know.

Can't you read or something? I clearly said that it was in his early appearances (1960s) in Adventure Comics. Look at what we have in issue #338:

http://i.imgur.com/tfjyy9f.jpg?1

He was originally meant to be a mastermind criminal kind of villain. And by COIE he wasn't a weakling, no. But still not as powerful overall as he became later on. I can go into full details if you'd like, and ill prove it.

But that doesn't matter anyway, since Darkseid was compared to him on the basis of being a threat on his level, and he achieved that through amping.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

So? He was still oneshotted by mangog. Guess power doesn't translates into physical strength.

Yeah, he is vastly superior. One gets felled by a punch from Thor, one no sells Superboy and Mon-El. Just compare Mangog's fights with Thor and Validus' "fights" against Superboy and Mon-El and you'll see how superior Validus is.


Mangog was > Ego and Orikal, so it's understandable. Not sure why you feel the need to lowball Odin through Mangog.

So you compare Validus' high showings with Mangog's low showings. Totally not bias.

How about this. Mangog was superior to Ego (Galactus level in that time period), and Orikal, while Validus gets one-shotted by Bronze Age Superboy, Mon-El and Ultra-Boy.

Seems legit doesn't it? Anyway, we compare averages, and Classic Mangog's average was always near Odin. That's enough for me to say that Validus is no Mangog.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Billions of times being powerful than Validus and you're calling that as Trans? GTFO. HP Doomsday is trans and I would laugh at anybody who says he is even 10 times stronger than Superman.


Addressed above.

Though i guess a being billions of times more powerful than Legion + Fatal Five can only destroy a galaxy by destroying the stars one by one.

Superboy, Mon-el and Ultra-Boy are capable of destroying a star. Validus can too most likely, Mano can one-shot planets with a single touch.

And SE is billions of times stronger that them yet can't destroy a galaxy instantly and instead destroys it by taking out the stars one by one.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Using "world moving" as low feats? It certainly is.

Not really. But nice deflection though.


No it's not. And i don't even see why you think so. The guy was using Superboy pulling a galaxy worth of planets as an average showing, so i pointed out that he also pulled a single planet with all his strength in other instances. That's how we know that it's not an average showing (along with many other instances which indicate so, some of which i already referenced).

Yes really. It's the same thing with you all the time. Whenever i argue against DC you say that im lowballing them.

Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:45 PM
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operator616
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
And how is cutting your own creation from his power means you can do that to everyone else?


This is just a prime example of how you fail to comprehend what im saying.

You realize that i never said that Odin can do that to whoever he likes right? In fact i said the exact opposite. in the beginning of this thread:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616

Btw, Odin has defeated Mangog on several occassions. Though he's different from Validus, since Odin can't cut him from his power source as he did Mangog. Doesn't change the fact that Odin can outright stomp him.


Can you read what i said here ^^^ ...?

Prof. MCabe was asking why Odin didn't use time stop on Mangog, i replied why would he need to do that given that he can cut him from his power source. Then you jumped in and assumed i was talking about Validus.

Pay attention next time.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

What's your point here?

You can talk to Prof on that. I didn't mention time stop so quit bringing it against me.


My point is explaining what's the discussion between me and Prof was about, before you barged in.

And that's what this was all about : Explaining what's the discussion was about. I never brought anything against you.

Pay attention.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend


Haha, really?

Well, he did.


Not sure what's funny about it...? Because I offered a very accurate assessment of what happened in the comics.

No he didn't kill Orikal.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

So, it was a hyperbole. How powerful was the blast that it didn't caused any damage to the celestial armor and then Thor's hammer blows were chipping the armor.


No it wasn't a hyperbole because this kind of thing happens multiple times in comics. Heck, you Eternity example actually supports this point as opposed to contradict it.

In different comics, under different writers. So i can't see why even though it seems weird.

And even then, let's not forget that not everything that eyeball was saying, was actually true. There are several things contradictory about eyeball's story, like Odin's origins. Refer to Thor #355 for example. Now, im not saying that everything that eyeball said was false since there are other accounts supporting some of eyeballs stories, merely that it was off on some details, and maybe the one you're referencing was on of them.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

I didn't say Mangog sucked. Just that beating odin physically isn't as impressive as beating Superboy or Mon-El.


Pretty sure that beating Odin is more impressive than beating Superboy and Mon-el together.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

Three PC characters suckershotting someone would knock them out. Unless they are abstracts or something.


BA PC. Important distinction.

Lol if you think that 3 PC characters can KO anyone short of abstracts. You are truly deluded about PC power levels.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

It certainly would. A surprise shot from masterson with mjolnir stunned Loki in Odin's body.

http://i.imgur.com/fsvvrYp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ppYiqO3.jpg

So pardon me if I don't believe in this Odin hype.


Same comic, 2 pages earlier:

http://i.imgur.com/WkVSg2X.jpg?1

"i (do) not wield my father's full Odin-power"

Nothing more needs to be said really.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

Brushing it aside as a low showing? What about this? Odin hammered Thor with mjolnir and still couldn't knock thor out in Fear Itself 1.


And you're assuming that he wanted to KO Thor in that instance?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

And that'd be as in character as Thor godblasting every one aka not at all.

So?

In physical strength and durability? He isn't even in the same league.


But it'd be more in character for Odin not to use this ability and let himself lose. Right? If it's purely physical then he might as well amp himself.

It happened at a time period when Odin's power-level wasn't properly established yet.

Did i specify that it's specifically limited to strength and durability? Did the OP do that? Or is it because you are desperate of giving Validus the win, and even you know that the only possible to do that is by comparing them physically.

In which case, you still fail, because there can still be made a good argument in Odin's favor.

Just so you know though, i was talking about their overall power.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

So, highfather was universal level in power at a nearly powerless state? Because this "circular reasoning" that Highfather was never universal level so even though he beat a universal power at that point, he still never performed that feat.

You yourself provided the scan where he beat a universal darkseid.

erm

You've said that Darkseid is skyfather in previous posts. Backpeddling already?



Well, first of all, if you actually read the scans i posted you'll notice that Highfather never beat Darkseid to begin with, he merely weakened him enough for Orion's astro-force to overpower him.

Though presumably Highfather weakened him a great deal, since in NG v1 #16 Orion admitted that his Astro-Force pales in comparison with Darkseid's power.

And Darkseid gets vaporized by Desaad's uni canon.

The only way to make this showing good for Darkseid is for Highfather to be multiversal, which he most definitely isn't.

You can go ahead and quote me when did i say that Darkseid is a skyfather. I hope you're not referring to the time where i said that Darkseid's feats are better than Zeus'. Which is true, and i specifically said it depends on what you mean by "skyfather", because it may be a title or a reference to power level. And skyfathers vary, but ive seen many people think when the term skyfather is used, it means the character is a galaxy buster, which is why i sometimes avoid using it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

You're making him more impressive. If a weakened Odin beats a fully powered Galactus, it doesn't means Galactus is puny. Does it?

So?

What? At the end he took a combined blast from LOSH and wasn't even harmed. Where was he stated to be amped?

Again excuses.


You're missing the point; standard PC Darkseid doesn't have any feats to put him at skyfather level, and those showings prove that.

Your reasoning for him being superior to Odin is literally because of 2 statements (which are actually misinterpreted from you, but even if they weren't they are still statements and not showings), and GDS where he was amped (and even then, taking on a blast from LOSH, with Ultra-Boy and Wildfire being the only members comparable to Superboy from the team who attacked Darkseid; not sure how's that put him on Odin's level.

And again, among the members who attacked Darkseid, Wildfire and Ultra-boy are the only ones comparable to Superboy.

Star Boy, Sun Boy, Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad and Elemental Lad are all meh.

Here's Darkseid being endangered by the Forever People in #8 though (specifically Moonrider), and later admits that he was in danger laughing out loud:

http://i.imgur.com/Sv4RA1n.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AGrpKUL.jpg

Which is why he had to bfr them away.

Excuse? More like putting the statement into proper context.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend

Pre-crisis sure is. Show me Odin oneshotting someone like Mon-El in coma.

Lulz. This is pure marvel wanking, nothing more.


You do realize this happened after he stole Mordru's and TT/Controller's powers, right?

But ok. Someone of Mon-el's class or above? Sure thing. Here's Odin one-shot killing Hela in Thor #190:

http://i.imgur.com/KlWMDht.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XTHo8fF.jpg

(and later resurrecting her)


Yeah, it's not like you're bias or anything. Honest question: Do you read Marvel comics for the sole reason of lowballing its characters? Because i never see you posting a nice showing for any of its character ever. It's always lowballing with you.

Last edited by operator616 on Jul 31st, 2014 at 05:55 PM

Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:46 PM
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operator616
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Operator, please answer the following questions.

What in your opinion is Superboy's average level of power?

What multiple of power is Validus operating at in reference to Superboy?


We can proceed from there.


Well i actually already answered your questions at the beginning of this thread.

Anyway, SA Superboy was trans-level (low or mid at best), and SA Superboy admitted that Validus is a dozen times stronger than himself in Adventure Comics #366 (1968, Silver Age). Sometimes it seemed to be true, other times it did not.

I already said all of this, but you didn't pay attention.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by deathslash
I guess he was also amped when he created those clones of superman, the Guardian, Kalibak, Orion, and Lydea Mallor since he'd never shown that power before. Just because darkseid doesn't show his vast array of exotic abilities, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have them. Even after a good degree of his powers had waned, he still tooled superman and supergirl with ease and then still went on to create validus.


Happened off panel so don't know how much time it took him, how much technology he used, etc... We know nothing about that feat. And even then, is this somehow supposed to justify the fact that he's more powerful than Validus?

And i don't know why you're referencing Darkseid's feats? Because we're discussing whether he was amped or not; referencing Darkseid's feats doesn't help with that.
Though i like how you ignored everything else i said. Guess scans would be more convincing then.

Must i repeat the fact that he said "i am fulfilled" when he absorbed the orb (he also previously absorbed Excalibur):

http://i.imgur.com/VHWy56Y.jpg?1

And the bio confirms that it's the necessary power level that he wanted.

http://i.imgur.com/IPMIBpA.jpg?1

Which can either be that he got his full power back or that he obtained even more than his full power. Either way, Darkseid was at least full power at that point. And after that he stole Mordru's powers:

http://i.imgur.com/iXAIYQO.jpg

And TT's (revealed to be a controller in Legionnaires 3):

http://i.imgur.com/yOJEwjg.jpg

You call that not amped?

And you really think standard PC Darkseid would be able to mindrape an entire planet? When most of New Gods v1 and Forever People v1 focused on Darkseid coming to Earth and seeking the ALE from the Earth's population (this is one scan from Forever People #3, but there are far more):

http://i.imgur.com/x71qwe0.jpg?1

So for someone who can mindrape billions of daxamites, it shouldn't be a problem doing the same for Earth's population; yet he couldn't even do it to a city much less the whole planet.

Along with using space warps, which he used extensively, you'd think that given he loves this ability so much and the fact that he uses it many times, he'd have shown it at least one time before. But no. Off the top of my head i can reference you to Hunger Dogs, where he was desperately trying to escape Apokolips because it was going to blow up, and he used a goddamn vehicle instead of, y'know, creating a space warp and being out of there in a second. Well, i agree that characters don't always use their abilities even sometimes in cases where those abilities are needed, but considering that Darkseid has never showed this ability to begin with, it doesn't help his case.

Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 05:50 PM
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One Big Mob
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Wait, is abhi of all people complaining about lowballing? Not only complaining but proceeds to do it?

Good times were had by all.

Also Odin is a pussy physically. That's why he's the only person off the top of my mind to temp KO fed Galactus physically. Which Validus would totes do.
Also numerous Surtur fights.


__________________

Last edited by One Big Mob on Jul 31st, 2014 at 06:05 PM

Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 06:01 PM
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operator616
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Yeah, pretty much everytime one argues against the DC side, it's lowballing in Abhi's dictionary.

thumb up on the 2nd part though.

Old Post Jul 31st, 2014 06:06 PM
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Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » H/P Doomsday, Pre-Crisis Solomon Grundy, & Pre-Crisis Validus vs Gorr, WBH, & Odin

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