After he absorbed the orb, he said that he was fulfilled, and after that he stole Mordru's and TT's powers (eventually revealed to be a controller but that was later on).
And he mindraped Daxam in its entirety, something we know standard PC Darkseid is not capable of doing.
And he could open space warps, large ones at that, something which he never had. I guess it's a coincidence that he started manifesting new powers.
I guess he was also amped when he created those clones of superman, the Guardian, Kalibak, Orion, and Lydea Mallor since he'd never shown that power before. Just because darkseid doesn't show his vast array of exotic abilities, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have them. Even after a good degree of his powers had waned, he still tooled superman and supergirl with ease and then still went on to create validus.
So, he isn't trans. Simple as that. You're backpeddling now. Never a good sign.
If he's billions of times more powerful than LOSH and Validus, he's above Odin. No two ways about it.
Not so fast bro. The same Odin who was destroying galaxies wasn't able to KO Thor with several bloodlusted attacks. Was that a low showing for Odin too?
Really? Humor me where he is stated to be amped.
Nice excuses.
Good for Darkseid I guess.
You think Trapper was a weakling around COIE? El oh El.
So? He was still oneshotted by mangog. Guess power doesn't translates into physical strength.
Yeah, he is vastly superior. One gets felled by a punch from Thor, one no sells Superboy and Mon-El. Just compare Mangog's fights with Thor and Validus' "fights" against Superboy and Mon-El and you'll see how superior Validus is.
Yes. Billions of times being powerful than Validus and you're calling that as Trans? GTFO. HP Doomsday is trans and I would laugh at anybody who says he is even 10 times stronger than Superman.
Using "world moving" as low feats? It certainly is.
And how is cutting your own creation from his power means you can do that to everyone else?
What's your point here?
You can talk to Prof on that. I didn't mention time stop so quit bringing it against me.
Right.
Haha, really?
Well, he did.
Nice dodging.
So, it was a hyperbole. How powerful was the blast that it didn't caused any damage to the celestial armor and then Thor's hammer blows were chipping the armor.
If Thor is below Superboy then so is Mangog below Validus.
I didn't say Mangog sucked. Just that beating odin physically isn't as impressive as beating Superboy or Mon-El.
I'm jumping on nothing. I just saw too much marvel wanking from you and bran. It was ridiculous.
And I agreed.
Is it?
Three PC characters suckershotting someone would knock them out. Unless they are abstracts or something.
It certainly would. A surprise shot from masterson with mjolnir stunned Loki in Odin's body.
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So pardon me if I don't believe in this Odin hype.
Brushing it aside as a low showing? What about this? Odin hammered Thor with mjolnir and still couldn't knock thor out in Fear Itself 1.
And that'd be as in character as Thor godblasting every one aka not at all.
So?
In physical strength and durability? He isn't even in the same league.
So, highfather was universal level in power at a nearly powerless state? Because this "circular reasoning" that Highfather was never universal level so even though he beat a universal power at that point, he still never performed that feat.
You yourself provided the scan where he beat a universal darkseid.
You've said that Darkseid is skyfather in previous posts. Backpeddling already?
You're making him more impressive. If a weakened Odin beats a fully powered Galactus, it doesn't means Galactus is puny. Does it?
So?
What? At the end he took a combined blast from LOSH and wasn't even harmed. Where was he stated to be amped?
Again excuses.
Pre-crisis sure is. Show me Odin oneshotting someone like Mon-El in coma.
I like how amazing showings for Thor translate into poor feats for Odin. Like Thor withstanding multiple blasts from Silver Age Odin who in the same story was destroying Galaxies in his battle with Infinity for the fate of the Universe and effortlessly healed the damage done across the Universe. In the era were Odin was more or less at the peak of the food chain. Even more irrelevant since it was established that Odin was far beyond Thor and could easily end him.
It's the same backwards thinking that has Martian Manhunter as the greatest shit ever in one thread (I.e. not Superman) and worthless garbage in another thread (I.e. vs Superman).
Also, when Masterson Thor hit Odin, it was Loki in Odin's body (Which Pr said is not applicable like 1 day ago in another thread) which was also noticeably weakened. What an incredibly relevant bit of lowballing, especially since it's not as if it's done the same to other Skyfather level beings and beyond.
Just so backwards....
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Jul 31st, 2014 at 05:45 AM
No, but Odin isn't so above Thor that he can't affect him. Just recently in FI, a shot from Thor put Odin on his ass.
Cry more. And even in that era Galactus/Ego/Watchers were easily on Odin's level.
And I don't give a shit about destroying galaxies or universe. I go solely on how characters measure up to each other, mangog has never destroyed even a planet and he oneshotted Odin. The same Thor who was taking attacks from Odin got nearly killed by Durok and electricity some issues later.
Odin's body was weakened? Got any proof? And it was just his soul in Odin's body, it wasn't like he stole Odin's power. And stunning skyfathers with a single hit is Thor's average now? Lulz.
He may as well be trans if we don't take the "billions" statement literally and instead understand the implication of the statement; that SE dwarfs them, but not by billions of times.
The word "billion" is used to indicate huge number not necessarily literally as it is. This is basic stuff. I admit that earlier i didn't give it much thought, because i was basing SE power, based on it being a gradual galaxy buster (Destroys stars one by one), while not factoring in its battle with LOSH/FF. Though now that i think of it, and take everything into consideration, i can see that it could be regarded as low skyfather. Considering the below:
Anyway, i don't care that much whether it's high trans or low skyfather, because either way, it's not on Odin's level period. It is a galaxy buster, but it's a gradual one. It destroys stars one by one:
And after their battle with it, Tharok literally build a bomb within minutes which blew it up. Superboy said that he could have survived the explosion if he went (but couldn't since he was still weakened):
He was originally meant to be a mastermind criminal kind of villain. And by COIE he wasn't a weakling, no. But still not as powerful overall as he became later on. I can go into full details if you'd like, and ill prove it.
But that doesn't matter anyway, since Darkseid was compared to him on the basis of being a threat on his level, and he achieved that through amping.
Mangog was > Ego and Orikal, so it's understandable. Not sure why you feel the need to lowball Odin through Mangog.
So you compare Validus' high showings with Mangog's low showings. Totally not bias.
How about this. Mangog was superior to Ego (Galactus level in that time period), and Orikal, while Validus gets one-shotted by Bronze Age Superboy, Mon-El and Ultra-Boy.
Seems legit doesn't it? Anyway, we compare averages, and Classic Mangog's average was always near Odin. That's enough for me to say that Validus is no Mangog.
Addressed above.
Though i guess a being billions of times more powerful than Legion + Fatal Five can only destroy a galaxy by destroying the stars one by one.
Superboy, Mon-el and Ultra-Boy are capable of destroying a star. Validus can too most likely, Mano can one-shot planets with a single touch.
And SE is billions of times stronger that them yet can't destroy a galaxy instantly and instead destroys it by taking out the stars one by one.
No it's not. And i don't even see why you think so. The guy was using Superboy pulling a galaxy worth of planets as an average showing, so i pointed out that he also pulled a single planet with all his strength in other instances. That's how we know that it's not an average showing (along with many other instances which indicate so, some of which i already referenced).
Yes really. It's the same thing with you all the time. Whenever i argue against DC you say that im lowballing them.
This is just a prime example of how you fail to comprehend what im saying.
You realize that i never said that Odin can do that to whoever he likes right? In fact i said the exact opposite. in the beginning of this thread:
Can you read what i said here ^^^ ...?
Prof. MCabe was asking why Odin didn't use time stop on Mangog, i replied why would he need to do that given that he can cut him from his power source. Then you jumped in and assumed i was talking about Validus.
Pay attention next time.
My point is explaining what's the discussion between me and Prof was about, before you barged in.
And that's what this was all about : Explaining what's the discussion was about. I never brought anything against you.
Pay attention.
Not sure what's funny about it...? Because I offered a very accurate assessment of what happened in the comics.
No he didn't kill Orikal.
No it wasn't a hyperbole because this kind of thing happens multiple times in comics. Heck, you Eternity example actually supports this point as opposed to contradict it.
In different comics, under different writers. So i can't see why even though it seems weird.
And even then, let's not forget that not everything that eyeball was saying, was actually true. There are several things contradictory about eyeball's story, like Odin's origins. Refer to Thor #355 for example. Now, im not saying that everything that eyeball said was false since there are other accounts supporting some of eyeballs stories, merely that it was off on some details, and maybe the one you're referencing was on of them.
Pretty sure that beating Odin is more impressive than beating Superboy and Mon-el together.
BA PC. Important distinction.
Lol if you think that 3 PC characters can KO anyone short of abstracts. You are truly deluded about PC power levels.
And you're assuming that he wanted to KO Thor in that instance?
But it'd be more in character for Odin not to use this ability and let himself lose. Right? If it's purely physical then he might as well amp himself.
It happened at a time period when Odin's power-level wasn't properly established yet.
Did i specify that it's specifically limited to strength and durability? Did the OP do that? Or is it because you are desperate of giving Validus the win, and even you know that the only possible to do that is by comparing them physically.
In which case, you still fail, because there can still be made a good argument in Odin's favor.
Just so you know though, i was talking about their overall power.
Well, first of all, if you actually read the scans i posted you'll notice that Highfather never beat Darkseid to begin with, he merely weakened him enough for Orion's astro-force to overpower him.
Though presumably Highfather weakened him a great deal, since in NG v1 #16 Orion admitted that his Astro-Force pales in comparison with Darkseid's power.
And Darkseid gets vaporized by Desaad's uni canon.
The only way to make this showing good for Darkseid is for Highfather to be multiversal, which he most definitely isn't.
You can go ahead and quote me when did i say that Darkseid is a skyfather. I hope you're not referring to the time where i said that Darkseid's feats are better than Zeus'. Which is true, and i specifically said it depends on what you mean by "skyfather", because it may be a title or a reference to power level. And skyfathers vary, but ive seen many people think when the term skyfather is used, it means the character is a galaxy buster, which is why i sometimes avoid using it.
You're missing the point; standard PC Darkseid doesn't have any feats to put him at skyfather level, and those showings prove that.
Your reasoning for him being superior to Odin is literally because of 2 statements (which are actually misinterpreted from you, but even if they weren't they are still statements and not showings), and GDS where he was amped (and even then, taking on a blast from LOSH, with Ultra-Boy and Wildfire being the only members comparable to Superboy from the team who attacked Darkseid; not sure how's that put him on Odin's level.
And again, among the members who attacked Darkseid, Wildfire and Ultra-boy are the only ones comparable to Superboy.
Star Boy, Sun Boy, Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad and Elemental Lad are all meh.
Here's Darkseid being endangered by the Forever People in #8 though (specifically Moonrider), and later admits that he was in danger :
Yeah, it's not like you're bias or anything. Honest question: Do you read Marvel comics for the sole reason of lowballing its characters? Because i never see you posting a nice showing for any of its character ever. It's always lowballing with you.
Last edited by operator616 on Jul 31st, 2014 at 05:55 PM
Well i actually already answered your questions at the beginning of this thread.
Anyway, SA Superboy was trans-level (low or mid at best), and SA Superboy admitted that Validus is a dozen times stronger than himself in Adventure Comics #366 (1968, Silver Age). Sometimes it seemed to be true, other times it did not.
I already said all of this, but you didn't pay attention.
Happened off panel so don't know how much time it took him, how much technology he used, etc... We know nothing about that feat. And even then, is this somehow supposed to justify the fact that he's more powerful than Validus?
And i don't know why you're referencing Darkseid's feats? Because we're discussing whether he was amped or not; referencing Darkseid's feats doesn't help with that.
Though i like how you ignored everything else i said. Guess scans would be more convincing then.
Must i repeat the fact that he said "i am fulfilled" when he absorbed the orb (he also previously absorbed Excalibur):
Which can either be that he got his full power back or that he obtained even more than his full power. Either way, Darkseid was at least full power at that point. And after that he stole Mordru's powers:
And you really think standard PC Darkseid would be able to mindrape an entire planet? When most of New Gods v1 and Forever People v1 focused on Darkseid coming to Earth and seeking the ALE from the Earth's population (this is one scan from Forever People #3, but there are far more):
So for someone who can mindrape billions of daxamites, it shouldn't be a problem doing the same for Earth's population; yet he couldn't even do it to a city much less the whole planet.
Along with using space warps, which he used extensively, you'd think that given he loves this ability so much and the fact that he uses it many times, he'd have shown it at least one time before. But no. Off the top of my head i can reference you to Hunger Dogs, where he was desperately trying to escape Apokolips because it was going to blow up, and he used a goddamn vehicle instead of, y'know, creating a space warp and being out of there in a second. Well, i agree that characters don't always use their abilities even sometimes in cases where those abilities are needed, but considering that Darkseid has never showed this ability to begin with, it doesn't help his case.
Wait, is abhi of all people complaining about lowballing? Not only complaining but proceeds to do it?
Good times were had by all.
Also Odin is a pussy physically. That's why he's the only person off the top of my mind to temp KO fed Galactus physically. Which Validus would totes do.
Also numerous Surtur fights.