as the dictionary defines it, 'exhaust' means to lose ALL of one's power. that said, val came out of the first battle with a sun-eater completely drained, but was able to dig deep and conjure what little of his power remained a scant 4 pages later, when he saved projectra by fending off the second sun-eater.
i absolutely do not think the injured/drained validus who took on the second sun-eater was more powerful than his standard/healthy self, given the aforementioned statements+his artistic depiction during the scene(s), but that's just me.
agreeing to disagree is fine, though. after all, even if we agreed on my interpretation of the scene, it still wouldn't put val remotely close to odin's level.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 1st, 2014 at 08:22 PM
He's defeated Surtur several times. In JiM #99, he battles Surtur and ultimately traps him inside the earth, and draws upon all the electro-magnetic particles in the universe too. Surtur also admits that he cannot harm Odin.
2nd time in JiM #104. Surtur transforms into galaxy-busting energy, and Thor with a single swing of Odin's sword owned Surtur easily. (should be noted that Surtur's defeat was specifically attributed to Odin's sword, all Thor did was swing it).
3rd time in Thor #177: After Odin survives the dimension of death (after which he came off at half power, because as Thor #188 reveals, Hela sliced a portion of Odin's soul which later became "infinity" while he was in her dimension, and that was before Odin confronted Surtur), then goes on to defeat Surtur while at half power.
4th time in Thor #349. Odin and his 2 brothers merge together to defeat Surtur w/ twilight sword, and they destroy the sword .Note that it was revealed in that same comic, that his 2 brothers later sacrificed themselves and empowered Odin to create the Odin-power which we all know (so basically, current Odin = Odin + his brothers when they were young), so the Odin with his 2 brothers destroying the twilight sword (which btw, was capable of warping all reality in the first arc of Avengers v3) is a feat that can be attributed to current Odin. And it's confirmed in Thor #353 as well. (note, that happened after we were shown Surtur destroying a galaxy while forging the sword in Thor #337, and was regarded as a universal threat if he got his hands on the eternal flame
In Thor #400, Odin absorbed Surtur (though that was after he was defeated)
Thor v3 #7: Odin pretty much battles Surtur everyday in some dimensional limbo after he perished in Thor v2 #40 at the hands of Surtur.
JiM #98: Defeats Ymir, who was shown to be Surtur's equal in Avengers v1 #61 and in Thor #425.
Thor #144-145: Battles Forsung across the universe, destroying stars and planets across the whole cosmos, and their battle was also elevated beyond time and space (Thor v2 retelling confirms this).
Thor #184-188: fought Infinity, in a battle which destroyed galaxies. And easily repaired the damage afterwards. The official index explicitly states that he restored the whole universe, which gives us an idea just how destructive their battle was. And it should be noted that Infinity was basically a portion of Odin. And it's later revealed in Quasar #19 reveals that Odin actually tapped into the abstract Infinity's power in that instance too.
JiM #513: Odin's battle with Seth destroyed many galaxies and was waged on every plane of existence.
The Mangog instances have already been mentioned, though ill repeat the one in Thor #198 where Odin cut Mangog from his power source while he possessed the Odin sword which was confirmed as a universe buster at that time period (JiM #117, Thor #127, 154-157, 184-188, 249-250 all confirm it).
Thor Annual #5: Odin and his brothers create the whole Asgardian dimension, and the countless stars (note: current Odin alone should be able to do that, since it was later revealed that Odin's brothers sacrificed themselves to imbue Odin with Odin-power, though that wasn't until #349 so it's questionable; but even still, creating 1/3 of a universe is still impressive).
Odin was defeating Uthana Thoth in Thor #620 and would have had it not been for Thela's intervention; same Uthana Thoth who was confirmed to will their universe to live (his universe was dying, and he willed it to be alive, it was revealed that if he let's go, it'll collapse).
Mighty Thor #4: as already mentioned, Odin KOes fed Galactus for a while.
Mighty Thor #21: Odin deflects/manipulates Surtur's energies which were enough to destroy the whole universe.
Recently in OS (Thor & Loki), Odin was revealed to have cut the tenth realm entirely from the Yggdrasil tree and erase any memory of it.
There are more showings for him which can put him above Validus, but those do for sure.
Take ONE showing out of all those, and it's better than anything Validus has done. Ever.
PS. If you need any scans, let me know.
Last edited by operator616 on Aug 2nd, 2014 at 01:08 PM
either way, stalemating galactus for as long as odin did beforehand--heck, even briefly KO'ing a slightly wounded galactus--is far beyond anything val has done. val's 'brickness' can only get him so far against an opponent as powerful(and as versatile) as odin.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Hey there friend. I didn't see Odin actually "deflect" those energies,
I believe Odin only shunted/directed the energies to Asgard-Space through a portal.
(I recall the energies touching nothing, cause they were shunted quickly after being released)
... meh, perhaps it could be interpreted as some form of manipulation,
but it does not mean Odin over-powered those energies imo.
Akin to Owen shunting/directing Beyonder's energies to another space.
Of course, we know Owen was not able to actually deflect/manipulate B's power,
especially not in his condition when said task was performed.
That aside, it's true they were stated to be universal energies
yet the fire couldn't even destroy the realm of Asgard-Space. (which was still a pocket at the time)
I don't know.
__________________
Last edited by Mr Master on Aug 2nd, 2014 at 04:07 PM
A good one to mention is that when Surtur and Seth were running amok and Odin basically split his powers between the energies of Asgard and his Odinpower within to give to Thor and himself and they both physically engaged Seth/Surtur.
And considering your "inertron" arguments. There's Odin basically one shotting Serpent who effortlessly tore Cap's shield to shreds.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Hey there Rage.
This is what I got from that particular story, if thing's have changed since, that's another tale.
1) All the power Surtur collected wasn't enough to burn the other dimension, known as the "Sea of Space" or "Asgard-Space."
2) Surtur nor Odin ever acted on an actual "Universal" scale in this arc.
3) Odin never affected any Eternity and/or any Universe's Space-Time.
4) Odin never blocked/contained Surtur's fire. Odin did shunt them like Owen shunted Beyonder's energies.
The Feat:
5) Odin was able to open a Conduit and shunt Surtur's fire into the the dimension containing Asgard.
Meh. Thor basically made a small crack. Considering that Odin and Galactus were still stalemating each other even after Thor's cheap-shot, id say Thor's attack did not do any significant damage.
Pretty much.
I don't think that's what rage was referring to.
Surtur was a universal power, but became a multiversal threat through the otherworld nexus. But when the nexus exploitation was denied to him, Surtur was still a threat to all the nine realms. Here's the scan he was referring to:
How is it not a manipulation if Odin outright took control of those energies and manipulated them to a specific location?
Yeah. And im pretty sure it was an amped Seth, who's absorbed the power of several egyptian gods. And even before he did that, Seth has been shown/stated to drain stars prior to that, while unamped.
Basically, if Surtur's energy being released was going to destroy the nine realms, it was going to do a lot of damage to say the least. Pretty uber for Odin to casually manipulate that.
So if Surtur was indeed going to destroy the Nine Worlds in full, then there's a good chance it was going to extend beyond that to the "hidden universes". Though it's a bit of a stretch, but there's evidence to suggest.
the first scan i posted was even more blatant than that regarding surtur's intent(ergo the reason i posted it): http://i.imgur.com/y6efrFj.jpg "otherworld is the home of ALL magic. it connects with ALL other realmS. to strike a match there would make ALL realitIES a pyre, ALL universeS kindling."
...and when surtur later commented that he sought to undo "ALL of creation" in the second scan i posted, he was undoubtedly referencing ALL realitIES/universeS: http://i.imgur.com/WwbotHm.jpg
so yes, i am well aware that surtur became a multiversal threat. your scan solidifies the notion that he alone may have still been a threat to creation, though.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 2nd, 2014 at 10:09 PM
Added bonus to that feat is the fact that a JiM comic implied the Serpent to be well above Cyttorak, who by himself has beaten the shit out of the rest of the Octessence(most of whom range from the trans tier to low skyfather), not to mention the way he punked 2/5ths of the Phoenix Force in his realm.
In the recent Angela/Thor crossover, they literally stated that the nine realms(plus the hidden 10th Realm where Angela was kidnapped), are full-fledged universes.
You can just type the keywords "Angela Thor Marvel" in google and get all the comics pertinent to that storyline.
A statement doubting that Superman survived the big bang + the fact that he vanished says otherwise.
And Superman didn't vanish because time/space changed, because he's the one who changed it, and should have stayed alive in that altered Earth.
But anyway. Superman definitely didn't survive the full power of the big bang, he only held for a while and eventually succumbed similar to what the time sphere did. Which has consistently shown to have awful durability.
After all, this same type of time sphere which "survived" the big bang (2 times, before AC #553 we also got a AC #552 flashback to the exact same thing), was broken when it crashed into the ground in DC Comics Presents #37:
Or i could also reference showings from the Showcase v1 (late 50s Rip Hunter comics) where Time sphere was threatened by boulders, random lasers and whatnot.
And it held the exact same time before Superman "vanished"/died (had the time sphere not been consistently shown to have terrible durability i wouldn't be bringing this up....but fact is, it has). Proving that holding temporarily is not that big of a feat (because it's not like they were at the very heart of it anyway).
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
I did say it could be seen as manipulation, but realistically,
all Odin did was direct the fire towards the portal where they still burned.
I don't think Odin over-powered those fires, which is why he had to guide them elsewhere instead.
Like Owen did to Beyonder's power. But I'm sure we both agree Owen was not > B at the time. (pre/or post)