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Darth Zannah vs Revan Reborn
Started by: DarthAnt66

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King Joker
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I'll go with Zannah right now...

Old Post Aug 27th, 2014 01:12 AM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

Bump.

So, like Zannah wins right? Revan can't beat her with the Force or in a lightsaber duel. Eventually he mucks up and gets pegged by the superior combatant.


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Old Post Aug 28th, 2014 12:52 PM
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NewGuy01
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Registered: Jan 2013
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If we're taking the asteroid feat into account, his TK well outstrips Zannah's. If we're not, then his advantage there is all but negligible.


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Old Post Aug 28th, 2014 03:14 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Darth Zannah lost or was losing in 3 out of the 4 lightsaber duels she participated against in the novel :
----- ----- -----
Darth Zannah vs Darth Bane (Rule of Two):

"When it was over her Master turned to face her. She waited for him to demand an explanation, but instead he let loose with a cry and flew at her. Zannah barely had time to ignite her twin blades to meet his completely unexpected attack.

She fell into a defensive posture as she so often had during their training sessions. But this was no drill, and her Master came at her with a speed and ferocity she had never faced before. Giving in to his orbalisk-fueled bloodrage, he was like a wild animal, raining savage blows down on her from all angles, the strikes coming so fast it seemed as if he wielded a dozen blades at the same time. Zannah fell into a full retreat, desperately giving ground beneath the overwhelming assault. [...]

She ducked under a horizontal cut from his lightsaber, only to catch a heavy boot in her ribs. She rolled with the kick, narrowly avoiding the return cut of his blade. She parried a sharp descending blow, gathered her feet under her, and launched herself backward, flipping ten meters clear.

"Listen to me, Master!" she shouted now that she had put some distance between them. "If I wanted to betray you, why didn't I help them during the-oooffff!"

Bane hit her with a powerful Force throw, sending her hurtling backward. Only the barrier she had instinctively thrown up at the last second to shield herself saved her bones from being shattered by the concussive force of the impact.

She scrambled to her feet and twirled her lightsaber before her, creating what she hoped would be an impenetrable wall of defense. Instead of trying to pierce her guard, Bane leapt high in the air and came down almost right on top of her. She deftly parried his blade, redirecting it to the side as she spun away to keep his body from slamming into her. But Bane caught her on the chin with his elbow as she turned, the blow snapping her head back. Her body went limp, her weapon dropped from her nerveless fingers, and she crumpled to the ground.

For a second she saw nothing but stars. Her vision cleared to reveal the image of Darth Bane looming above her, his blade raised for the coup de grace."


Outcome: Darth Zannah's performance against Darth Bane here reveals her faults. Two times in this battle, Darth Zannah successfully losses an advantage thanks to Darth Bane's unpredictability. This demonstrates a severe lack of precognition, unable to sense a powerful Force attack until it hit her despite it being on an immense Darkside nexus (she herself is a dsarksider). The battle also showed that her lightsaber defense is not as invincible as everyone says it is. Revan will take an advantage of Darth Zannah's lack of foresight, being perhaps the greatest Battle Precognition user in galactic history.
----- ----- ------
Darth Zannah vs Sarro Xaj (Rule of Two):

"Zannah slid to the side, her spinning weapon redirecting the blade of her enemy away from her throat and harmlessly up over her shoulder. ]Its twin came in quickly from the other side at her hip, and she threw herself into a back handspring to avoid it, landing nimbly on her feet. Grimly, she realized that she'd never understood the true meaning of the term martial arts until now.

The warrior assailing her had elevated the act of combat to its purest and highest form. He moved with the fluid grace of a dancer, his monstrous blade singing the deadly song of battle. He executed his moves with a perfect elegance born of obsession. Zannah knew it left him vulnerable to other forms of attack, but he pressed her so relentlessly that she never had a chance to effectively gather her power.

Had the Jedi enjoyed the same advantages Bane's orbalisk armor provided, their encounter would have ended long ago. Bane could shrug off otherwise lethal blows, forgoing all sense of personal safety in a reckless assault of pure offense to overwhelm her defenses. In contrast, the man before her, massive though he was, would still die if her blades caught him. He had to guard against her counterattacks, his style less aggressive so he didn't leave himself vulnerable. Even though his technique was more refined than her Master's, she'd been able to withstand his assault... so far.

He came at her again, his blade changing directions so quickly in midstroke that it seemed to bend and curve. Zannah repelled the assault with a furious defensive flurry, breathing hard. Her style was meant to prolong combat, exhausting her opponents as they tried to penetrate her defenses. But each time she clashed with the olive-skinned giant, she was the one forced to expend desperate, frantic energy. Slowly, he was wearing her down.

It was more than just his talent and training. Zannah sensed some type of greater power at work: the Force flowed through him as if it was being channeled by another, giving even greater strength to her opponent.

Another exchange drove her backward; the man was cutting off the room, herding her tightly into the corner to limit her movement. He was taking away her agility, knowing she was no match for his strength. And there was nothing she could do about it. Taking another step back, she felt her heel butt up against the edge of the wall. There was nowhere left to go; the end was near.

On the far side of the room she heard Bane howl in rage, and she braced herself for a final stand she knew she couldn't survive. Her opponent spun the long double-bladed lightsaber around his own body, gathering momentum for his next attack. And then, suddenly, the power behind him-the Force being channeled through him by another-was gone. Zannah felt it disappear, snuffed out like a candle in a puff of wind.

The big man hesitated, casting a quick glance over toward the others to see what had happened. Seizing the opportunity, Zannah's fingers flickered in strange patterns as she unleashed her Sith sorcery at her foe.

His eyes went wide and he stumbled away from her, his lightsaber swinging wildly at the air around him as he was beset on all sides by imaginary demons. Flailing in half-mad terror at the invisible monsters, he ignored Zannah as she swooped in and ended his life with one long, diagonal stroke across his muscular chest."


Outcome: Sarro Xaj utterly outclassed Darth Zannah, primarily due to his immense strength. Note also how Darth Zannah needs time to gather her energies to unleash a sorcery attack, time she cannot afford in a battle with Revan. Though, pay attention to the red and blue colored section. In that particular sentence, he forced Darth Zannah to exert energy due to his unpredictability and once again, Darth Zannah's lack of precognition. She failed to anticipate the blade rapidly changing, something that nearly caused her death. Revan, being a generalist in all 7 forms of lightsaber combat, "draw[s] on bits of everything here and there," allowing him to be highly unpredictable.
----- ----- ------
Darth Zannah vs Darth Bane (Dynasty of Evil)
Instead of me posting the entire fight, however, I feel a certain passage is vital to the answer of this battle:

"Instead of a savage, relentless pressure meant to overwhelm her, he settled into a pattern of feints and quick thrusts, probing and prodding her defenses in search of a weakness as the two of them settled in for a long battle of attrition. [...] Now, however, his technique was more advanced. Unable to simply bully his way heedlessly forward, he had developed an unpredictable, seemingly random style. Each time she thought she could anticipate where the next attack was coming from, he changed tactics, disrupting the rhythm of the battle and causing her to give ground. She was being driven back in a slow retreat, and she realized he was herding her toward the shuttles, hoping to pin her against the metal hull with no place to go."

Outcome: Unpredictable attacks were able to overcome Darth Zannah's defense, which is relied heavily on precognition (despite her being poor at it in the first place). Revan, by all accounts, fights in a heavily unorthodox style, rapidly changing entire lightsabers forms in the middle of combat, and drawing on all of them together in certain encounters. Notice how Darth Bane was not overcoming Darth Zannah through brute strength like everyone suggests is the only way Darth Zannah can be overcome, but by rather a simple tactic for an advanced master of the Force. For more information on Revan's mastery with a blade and unpredictable style, go here: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/da...overview/97613/
----- ----- ------
It should also be note that there is a bluntly obvious difference between Revan and Darth Zannah's precognition: "When two skilled combatants engaged each other with the lightsaber, the blades moved so quickly it was impossible to think and react to each move. Bane had taught her to rely on instinct, guided by the Force and honed by thousands of hours' training in the martial forms." Revan's precognition is so much greater that he is now able to read and anticipate the others movements not through instinct, but through conscience thought. And yes, this is vital, since Darth Zannah's style relies on utlimately anticipating the others moves in order to achieve victory.

Revan wins. His style is unpredictable, his precognition is greater, and his mastery of the Force is obviously stronger.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Last edited by Jaggarath on Aug 28th, 2014 at 04:21 PM

Old Post Aug 28th, 2014 04:11 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Fwi, don't feel the need to respond right back, because then I will feel the need to respond right back.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 28th, 2014 04:20 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Darth Zannah lost or was losing in 3 out of the 4 lightsaber duels she participated against in the novel :


And since two of them were when she was a half-trained apprentice, that doesn't mean really anything. If we're going down that road then I might as well start using Revan getting pwned by Malak as proof that Zannah can beat him. I won't though, because looking at a character half-way through their development doesn't establish their end state.

And I mean, if we're going here then Revan has only ever won 1 lightsaber fight and it was against an Imperial Guardsmen. Who doesn't use a lightsaber. Revan's never beaten anyone in a straight up lightsaber fight in canon. What a loser.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Outcome: Darth Zannah's performance against Darth Bane here reveals her faults. Two times in this battle, Darth Zannah successfully losses an advantage thanks to Darth Bane's unpredictability. This demonstrates a severe lack of precognition, unable to sense a powerful Force attack until it hit her despite it being on an immense Darkside nexus (she herself is a darksider). The battle also showed that her lightsaber defense is not as invincible as everyone says it is. Revan will take an advantage of Darth Zannah's lack of foresight, being perhaps the greatest Battle Precognition user in galactic history.


Again, this fight took place when Zannah was still in training. Her abilities weren't perfected so of course her lightsaber defense wasn't invincible at that point. And nothing here establishes a lack of precog. She wasn't expecting Bane to charge at her so suddenly without demanding an explanation. It wasn't unexpected because she failed to sense it, that's not how precog works its a danger sense that triggers immediately before an attack. It was unexpected because she literally just didn't expect him to attack. She didn't even have her lightsaber out and wasn't in a state of battle-readiness. And I have no idea where you're getting the idea that she didn't sense his Force Push, she blocked it didn't she? The nexus has absolutely no baring because it was locked away in Lake Nath and she isn't stated to be accessing it.

And how will he take advantage of this imaginary weakness of yours? All you're doing is making hyperbolic statements about how great Revan is and how shitty Zannah is without coming up with an actual way for him to penetrate her defense.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Outcome: Sarro Xaj utterly outclassed Darth Zannah, primarily due to his immense strength.


Which Revan does not possess. no expression

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Note also how Darth Zannah needs time to gather her energies to unleash a sorcery attack, time she cannot afford in a battle with Revan.


Why the hell not? Revan is never noted to be a dominating swordsman. He does not have the speed or the strength to press her hard enough that she can't build up her energies.

Which isn't even what the text is saying is happening by the way. It's saying that she's being pushed so hard that she can't take advantage of his force weakness and gather her strength to attack him that way. When she gets the chance she doesn't need time to build up her power, she attacks instantly in the time it takes for him to quickly glance away. Zannah's supposed need for time is a completely fabricated argument.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Though, pay attention to the red and blue colored section. In that particular sentence, he forced Darth Zannah to exert energy due to his unpredictability and once again, Darth Zannah's lack of precognition. She failed to anticipate the blade rapidly changing, something that nearly caused her death.


You completely made that up. That's not what the text says at all. erm

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan, being a generalist in all 7 forms of lightsaber combat, "draw[s] on bits of everything here and there," allowing him to be highly unpredictable.


No, not really.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Outcome: Unpredictable attacks were able to overcome Darth Zannah's defense, which is relied heavily on precognition (despite her being poor at it in the first place). Revan, by all accounts, fights in a heavily unorthodox style, rapidly changing entire lightsabers forms in the middle of combat, and drawing on all of them together in certain encounters. Notice how Darth Bane was not overcoming Darth Zannah through brute strength like everyone suggests is the only way Darth Zannah can be overcome, but by rather a simple tactic for an advanced master of the Force. For more information on Revan's mastery with a blade and unpredictable style, go here: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/da...overview/97613/


Maybe you shouldn't have cut out the rest of the fight because you seem to have missed the part where she states that she's just letting Bane think he was pushing her back while she prepared to counter-attack with the Force. It's impressive that you managed to cut off your quote the sentence right before she makes that apparent though. no expression

And you're completely wrong anyway since Bane wasn't overcoming her defense with his unpredictable attacks. She was still defending against everything, she was simply moving backwards while doing so. Was Anakin overcoming Kenobi's defense the entire 20 minute duel he spends pushing Obi-Wan back? And I'm sure I don't need to point out that Bane is a faster, stronger and more skilled swordsman than Revan is. There's nothing indicating Revan could make Zannah retreat as Bane did.

Lastly, theres nothing indicating Revan rapidly changes his lighstaber forms in the middle of combat at all. It's simply more fanwank from you. He changes from Juyo to Shii-Cho once in the Foundry fight.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It should also be note that there is a bluntly obvious difference between Revan and Darth Zannah's precognition: "When two skilled combatants engaged each other with the lightsaber, the blades moved so quickly it was impossible to think and react to each move. Bane had taught her to rely on instinct, guided by the Force and honed by thousands of hours' training in the martial forms." Revan's precognition is so much greater that he is now able to read and anticipate the others movements not through instinct, but through conscience thought. And yes, this is vital, since Darth Zannah's style relies on utlimately anticipating the others moves in order to achieve victory.

Revan wins. His style is unpredictable, his precognition is greater, and his mastery of the Force is obviously stronger.


Or maybe Zannah and Bane are simply faster than Revan is. wink

And I don't recall jack shit indicating Revan consciously reacts to each move. Sounds like another thing you're making up.


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 12:27 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

quote:
And since two of them were when she was a half-trained apprentice, that doesn't mean really anything. If we're going down that road then I might as well start using Revan getting pwned by Malak as proof that Zannah can beat him. I won't though, because looking at a character half-way through their development doesn't establish their end state.

She been training for 10 years now, she should have enough experience not to get utterly trashed in both her fights.
Even Revan, only half-way through his run and brain-damaged, does better then she does. Embarrassing dude, embarrassing.
quote:
And I mean, if we're going here then Revan has only ever won 1 lightsaber fight and it was against an Imperial Guardsmen. Who doesn't use a lightsaber. Revan's never beaten anyone in a straight up lightsaber fight in canon. What a loser.

Lol wut? This is so wrong, I'm astonished.

Mandalore the Ultimate was "no match" for his skill with a blade.
"In battle after battle, Revan had led the Jedi and Republic forces to victory. Realizing defeat was inevitable, Mandalore the Ultimate had challenge Revan to single combat, and Revan had accepted. Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan
----- ----- -----
He "quickly" beat one of the greatest Echani generals in history, Yusanis.
"One of the most feared of Echani warriors active in the galaxy during the decades leading up to the Jedi Civil War, Yusanis was a decorated solider and one of the greatest heroes of the Mandalorian Wars. Later, when Yusanis discovered that an Echani Senator had been killed by Darth Revan, he set out to confront the Sith Lord and bring him to justice. Despite his skills, Yusanis was quickly killed by Revan."
―The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
----- ----- -----
He beat Gorse Bendak, a famous Mandalorian who never lost in over a 100 duels.
"All hail the Mysterious Stranger [Revan], the greatest duelist to ever grace the rings of Taris!"
―Taris dueling announcer (Star Wars Knight of the Old Republic)
----- ----- -----
He slayed two large Terentatek, which normally take an entire squad of Jedi just to kill one.
"Terentateks are undoubtedly one of the most vicious of all creatures steeped in the dark side, and they are doubly dangerous because of their unnatural resistance to Force powers."
―Terentatek Codex Entry (Star Wars The Old Republic)
----- ----- -----
So yeah, Revan's combat feats well outstrip Darth Zannahs. This is not even mentioning his slaughter of both the Sith Academy on Korriban, and 100s of Dark Jedi on the Star Forge.
quote:
Again, this fight took place when Zannah was still in training. Her abilities weren't perfected so of course her lightsaber defense wasn't invincible at that point.

"At this point?" Why are you implying her style is invincible as of DoE, because that is clearly not true. erm
quote:
And nothing here establishes a lack of precog. She wasn't expecting Bane to charge at her so suddenly without demanding an explanation. It wasn't unexpected because she failed to sense it, that's not how precog works its a danger sense that triggers immediately before an attack. It was unexpected because she literally just didn't expect him to attack. She didn't even have her lightsaber out and wasn't in a state of battle-readiness. And I have no idea where you're getting the idea that she didn't sense his Force Push, she blocked it didn't she? The nexus has absolutely no baring because it was locked away in Lake Nath and she isn't stated to be accessing it.

She doesn't need to draw on a nexus for it to effect her. Jedi don't draw on nexus', yet there abilities are still hampered.
The fact she didn't sense Darth Bane's attack until it hit her was pathetic, especially since her sense abilities are amplified by the lake.
In fact, I don't think she has ever put up a Force Barrier that wasn't through sheer instinct. She is clocking in at a Kenobi-level reaction time:

"Count Dooku half-turned and raised a hand. A rush of dark power lifted Obi-Wan off his feet and choked the air from his longs. He reached out for the Force to counter Dooku, but the attack had been too sudden."
--Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Junior Novelization

The same situation that happened to Zannah also happened to Kenobi. A sudden Force attack was made, and neither had the proper reaction time to counter it until it was too late
The difference is Kenobi was able to at least try to reach out with the Force. Zannah merely lived thanks to utter instinct, despite being on a nexus.
So yeah, precognition comparable to Obi-Wan is not something to be in awe about. The guy has got toyed around by people more times then I can even count.

quote:
All you're doing is making hyperbolic statements about how great Revan is and how shitty Zannah is


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quote:
Which Revan does not possess. no expression

(please log in to view the image) I accept your concession.

quote:
Why the hell not? Revan is never noted to be a dominating swordsman. He does not have the speed or the strength to press her hard enough that she can't build up her energies.

Revan was a dominating swordsman against Yusanis (and Revan has the speed necessary):

"One of the most feared of Echani warriors active in the galaxy during the decades leading up to the Jedi Civil War, Yusanis was a decorated solider and one of the greatest heroes of the Mandalorian Wars. Later, when Yusanis discovered that an Echani Senator had been killed by Darth Revan, he set out to confront the Sith Lord and bring him to justice. Despite his skills, Yusanis was quickly killed by Revan."
―The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

"Yusanis was the most famous of Echani warriors, fighting against oppression and villainy until encountering Darth Revan. Discovering that Revan had killed an Echani senator, Yusanis attempted to tell authorities but fell to the powers of the Sith Lord, despite his own impressive abilities and the cortosis weave inherent in all Echani vibroblades."
―Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic

"...if Father had been faster... if only Father had been faster..."
―The Handmaiden (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)
---- ---- ----
Chris Avellone also shows that Revan was a dominating opponent in the field of battle:

"There weren't many people able to face Revan across a battlefield and survive the encounter."
―Chris Avellone (KOTOR Designer)

quote:
Which isn't even what the text is saying is happening by the way. It's saying that she's being pushed so hard that she can't take advantage of his force weakness and gather her strength to attack him that way. When she gets the chance she doesn't need time to build up her power, she attacks instantly in the time it takes for him to quickly glance away. Zannah's supposed need for time is a completely fabricated argument.

Zannah couldn't release sorcery against Xaj until she had a moment to spare. She can't do it in the middle of battle.
Against Darth Bane it required time for her to gather her energies, she couldn't do it instantly against him either.

quote:
No, not really. [...]
Lastly, theres nothing indicating Revan rapidly changes his lighstaber forms in the middle of combat at all. It's simply more fanwank from you. He changes from Juyo to Shii-Cho once in the Foundry fight.



"Revan lashed out with his foot, delivering a side kick to the chest of the guard who had grabbed his shoulder, sending the man stumbling back...

One of the guards battling Meetra broke off and tried to cut Revan off. The Jedi gathered himself and leapt high in the air, tucking his knees in tight to somersault over his opponent. The guard reacted to the unexpected move a fraction too slowly, his electrostatic slicing through the air above his head and missing Revan by only a few centimeters.

Revan landed on the ground and wheeled around to face the other man. He trust one with the Force, the impact hitting the solider square in the chest. Instead of sending him flying, it only staggered him back half a step-this close to the Emperor they were sworn to protect, the guards were able to draw on his power to protect themselves.

Still, the slight stumble gave Revan enough time to draw his lightsaber and go on the offensive. He came in with a high, overhand chop-obvious feint meant to draw the defenses of his opponent downward, leaving his legs exposed to quick slash follow up."

The guard recognized the familiar ploy, countering it by parrying the overhand chop then quickly dropping his blade low to intercept the inevitable slash at his legs. Only Revan didn't go for his legs. Anticipating that his opponent's defenses would go low, he kept his blade up high, allowing him to end the battle with horizontal cut across the man's exposed throat."


For the first red:
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For the second red:
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For the third red:
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Drew Karpyshyn confirms later then that Revan "draw[s] on bits of everything here and there," as demonstrated by the above feat.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:29 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

[Continued from above]
quote:
You completely made that up. That's not what the text says at all.

She had to exert energy due to the speed and the randomness of the attack.
She had her blade set up in an area to defend the attack, but the blade changed rapidly (something she didn't anticipate before hand), making her have to scramble in order to survive.

"He came at her again, his blade changing directions so quickly in midstroke that it seemed to bend and curve. Zannah repelled the assault with a furious defensive flurry, breathing hard."
--Star Was Darth Bane: Rule of Two

quote:
Maybe you shouldn't have cut out the rest of the fight because you seem to have missed the part where she states that she's just letting Bane think he was pushing her back while she prepared to counter-attack with the Force. It's impressive that you managed to cut off your quote the sentence right before she makes that apparent though. And you're completely wrong anyway since Bane wasn't overcoming her defense with his unpredictable attacks. She was still defending against everything, she was simply moving backwards while doing so.

I feel you have misread the fight then. Read it again.

"She was being driven back in a slow retreat, and she realized he was herding her toward the shuttles, hoping to pin her against the metal hull with no place to go. Zannah was content to play along, taking quick, careful steps backward over the soft, sandy terrain as she began to gather her power.
--Star Wars Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil

Zannah decides to play along once she realizes she was being pushed backwards to the shuttle. She was already being driven into a slow retreat.
Darth Zannah merely tried to take advantage of her losing, she did not have the advantage all along obviously.

quote:
Was Anakin overcoming Kenobi's defense the entire 20 minute duel he spends pushing Obi-Wan back?

Bad analogy. Anakin wasn't pushing Kenobi into a "slow retreat." Darth Bane was.

quote:
And I don't recall jack shit indicating Revan consciously reacts to each move. Sounds like another thing you're making up.

He reacted consciously in the Imperial Guard battle, and also has precognition necessary to predict the course of entire wars. Something like that, since it's so long-term, cannot be done through instinct.

quote:
And how will he take advantage of this imaginary weakness of yours [...] without coming up with an actual way for him to penetrate her defense? [...] Or maybe Zannah and Bane are simply faster than Revan is. wink


Her style was meant to prolong combat, exhausting her opponents as they tried to penetrate her defenses. Revan has among the greatest endurance feats in the entire mythos, fighting through hordes of Dark Jedi for an "hour." He then fights Bastila Shan, an army of infinite droids, and finally Darth Malak. He can be in combat with Darth Zannah for, like I just said, over an "hour" without backing down. Her style is ineffective against someone like Revan. Just look at this quote:

"Lightsaber battles were brutal in their intensity; few duels lasted more than a minute. Even for a trained Jedi, the effort of all-out combat was exhausting…particularly when using the acrobatic maneuvers of Ataru. It didn't take long for Zannah to sense that her opponent was wearing down."
--Star Wars Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil

Darth Zannah was wearing Set Harth down in less then a minute really. She is not doing that for Revan. Revan's unpredictability in combat will suit perfectly against Darth Zannah's lack of great precognition, further hindering her style. A well placed Force attack by Revan, which Darth Zannah won't be able to counter unless via instinct (she could only counter Set Harth's not via instinct), would also be able to disrupt the flow of her rhythm and movement, allowing Revan to take the advantage. She will have to resort to other powers to overcome Revan, because merely spinning her blade around is not helping her situation. Revan is winning this fight rather easily.

Also, you continue to say Revan lacks speed, yet his speed is greater then that of Zannah's. confused A Force-user's speed is dictated by there command of the Force. I doubt many Force-users in the mythos can run at the speed of Usain Bolt without Force-augmentation (especially Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, and Bane). Revan's greater command of the Force allows him to augment his speed beyond that of Zannah's, being able to contend on near-equal grounds with the Sith Emperor himself.

"Lanoree used the Force to increase her speed, willing her muscles to stretch and contract faster, pumping her arms, pushing blood through their veins."
--Star War: Dawn of the Jedi: Into the Void

PS: I won't be able to respond for a couple days anyway, so no rush.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:29 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

Nice job keeping it concise and to the point. thumb up


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:45 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Concise responses are lame. They don't accurately display Revan's greatness.


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:47 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

Concise responses aren't a pain to reply to though. If you wanna say something say it in a way that's not shitty and aggravating.


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:51 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Concise responses are a pain for me to make and form an argument against. I like to see what your talking about, because if not I need to double-check every statement you say.
Myself using quotes and pictures to support my argument only makes it easier for both of us. I don't see what the issue is really to be honest. Sorry, bae. sad


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:53 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

They take longer to reply to and make arguments multi-post, creates a ton of tangent points that stray away from the main argument and it means I need to frequently recheck what I'm replying to and what you're replying to.

Nothing to be sorry about, its just a different way of doing things. I don't feel the need to have things sourced cuz I mostly trust people to tell the truth or simply remember what they're talking about.


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:57 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Meh. Everyone has a different style of debating. KMC seems to keep it strait and to the point. SWF goes half-and-half.
I like to go that extra distance so people don't say "nu uh, u wrong" (because back on SWF that's what they would say).


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 09:59 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

Except I still went "nu uh, u wrong" since you were blatantly being misleading and making things up. wink


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 10:00 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Yes, but that's because you can't read properly. They simply lacked education on SWF. There is a difference.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 10:01 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End


 

I can read fine, you're just extrapolating things from the material that isn't there. You'll see when I reply.


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 10:03 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

Mmm K. Your Zannah wank is comparable to LeGenD's with Vitiate. She simply cannot contend with one as great as Revan. wink
Don't reply today though, because I have anxiety and mental issues that demand I must reply back then before I go to sleep.


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"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 10:04 PM
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The Merchant
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2012
Location:


 

I want to go with Zannah since she was able to take on Darth Bane, who despite being weakened was still a capable Force beast. She even has her dark-side tendrils that are capable of one-shotting stronger opponents if they're not careful.


__________________
"Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 10:06 PM
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Jaggarath
DarthAnt66

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: USA


 

She beat Darth Bane and used the tendrils by drawing off of an immense nexus. She wouldn't have that advantage on normal grounds.


__________________

"There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."

Old Post Aug 29th, 2014 10:09 PM
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