__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Shado Vao has the edge. It should be a fight, but Vao has more dueling feats under his belt (*ton* of sith kills, plus long fights with two of Krayt's inner circle, Talon and Maladi), and some of the strongest duelists by Legacy are impressed by his skill (Ganner Krieg wonders the possibility of Vao being above him, or maybe even Draco, out loud. I doubt he's stronger than Draco, but...).
Force wise it's a bit closer, but they both use force-push. Vao also once ripped the lightsaber from a foe's hands, but I think Koth's good enough that that won't happen.
If you're going to blindly build off of Malak/Revan's empire, then you have to actually look at the Empire and chain of command. Third in power is Darth Bandon. Forth is Uthar Wynn. What have they done that compares to sparring evenly - sparring is supposed to build skills and PRACTICE - with Mace Windu, and being compared to Kit Fisto (bested General Grievious in combat), Agen Kolar (easily bested Vos in combat, but we'll get to him later), and in general being compared as better than almost every Jedi in the Order? Even with your contention against Shaak Ti, the evidence more so favors Tiin over her than vice versa. A compromise can be reached to put her on his level, not so the opposite, but even if you strongly disagree with him being above Shaak, you have to admit that it has more merit than saying that Krayt's Empire = Malak's, and therefore all the Jedi are equal across all Eras? You just scaled Talon to Darth Bandon/Uthar Wynn (featless), and then scaled that to PT and expect them to be equals, yet you later raise a fuss about Tiin being above Shaak.
How did you end up as Talon = Tiin though? Why not Plo Koon, Yoda, Mace; why Tiin? Similar accolades in a weak era do not make her randomly equal to Tiin.
Your accolade also contrasts them in terms of power over the galaxy, of which Malak's Empire had almost complete control. It wasn't comparing the actual power of every Sith contained within - not that you really want it to of course - but even then it doesn't follow along with your train of thought.
KOTOR being compared to the PT Era was contrasting the Jedi before they were completely devastated by the Great Sith War, not after.
However, if you do think a comparison such as this directly contrasts in power, then that would mean that the height of the Order = PT. Which would mean that Vandar Tokare, and Vrook Lamar are equal to Yoda and Mace Windu respectively. That's going to cause some problems outside this thread for trying to place Darth Traya, and Nihilus.
In summation:
The quote doesn't bring parity between random ranking members of the order, and even if it did, it doesn't mean much considering how pathetic the ranking members under Malak/Revan were. You're trying to assign random numbers to Jedi due to power over the galaxy by going backwards 4100 years, and then going forward 4000 years... It simply doesn't work. PT Era was impressive because of the individuals contained within, not simply for their accolades on influence/scope. And on that note, here's one more for you from that guidebook that shows they weren't actively scoping for talent:
I think I've sufficiently rendered this whole section inert without sacrificing too many characters towards it.
You posted him and 6 other users fighting 6 Sith and later his only feat from that sequence was beating a featless trooper. The two most powerful Sith were beaten by people not named him, and two others were shown cut down by the Imperials and his team. That leaves - after Cade leaves - Shado and his team (4 people total) to deal with 2 Sith and one random trooper.
Your other lightsaber feat is him not finding an equal in his blade, who we assume includes Darth Talon. Problem is they stalemated in lightsaber combat, and Shado even ran away from her with a group behind him. You also haven't included any reason why stalemating Talon or even being more skilled than her is impressive. All you've done is show she was one of the most skilled duelists in the Order and then likened it to Revan's time and then PT. That's it for his skill.
At best you've rallied for her being on their level, at worst, you made her less than them. Either way you haven't explained why he shouldn't be capable of the same things she's done, just explained why she's possibly lying to Anakin on her being worse than Tiin.
You argue general parity between Anakin/Obi-Wan here yet you raise a stink about Tiin's force possibly being better than Mace's, or a sparring match meaning anything.
That statement only accounts for his strength, not for his precog. And Anakin having better precog than Tiin, or Anakin's master possibly beating out precog does not extend to Shado or lower precog as a whole.
Not only that, but Tiin was using telepathy - actively reading his opponents mind - to figure out their next move, not merely predicting it. Tiin prides his ability and likens his advantage to it. Anakin precogging things has nothing to do with telepathy, and not posting anything for defense of Shado is a concession on your part.
Shado almost fell under influence of Karness Muur and Celeste Morne could sense his thoughts, in fact your picture is of the scene. His mind is not strong enough to resist passive telepathy from Tiin.
First off, forest for the trees. He threw a what, 500 pound SB droid 4 kilometers? That's a greater feat than anything you've posted.
Second off that same Mace was the one who had the infamous Soloing an entire Droid army feat. While we can pretend that Mace was holding back his power there, it's unlikely that his casual blasts (like the ones used against SB Droids) were greater than the full power of Tiin, as evidenced by him out throwing Mace by an entire kilometer.
Third, Mace calls on Tiin's strength and once Tiin fails, Mace realizes he shouldn't even try. Which again backs up Mace being below Tiin.
However the only comparison between the two in the force has Tiin looking better. Jump through all the hoops you want but 3 times isn't an accident. That being said, even if, without any feats of Mace to put him above Tiin in direct opposition of evidence, we can at best leave them equal in that respect, and that's both good and bad for you. Good because it doesn't put Tiin greatly above Mace, but bad because it opens up access to Mace's feats; mostly, one-shotting Sora Bulq with a force push in Star Wars Jedi - Mace Windu. That same Sora (amped from Darkside) was portrayed as above Vos until he left himself open. Vos has been described as one of the most experienced Jedi in the Order, along a myriad of other feats. Essentially, this opens Tiin up to actually take out Jedi Master level beings with experience against other Jedi Masters. This and the B2s getting thrown kilometers isn't approachable by throwing salvage that doesn't appear to be too large in scale.
As for the huge ship; you can actually see the outline of it in the pictures you provided, which doesn't bode well for the size of it. In the pic of him lifting it, you can see the sides and the top of it, including blades of grass. Same with the sides when it hit Talon. It was a bit bigger than a human in comparison to humans. There was debris all over that planet, and Shado even gets one shotted by Talon when he gets force pushed into another pile of salvage in that issue in Star Wars Legacy 5. There is no indication it was that same ship in the background when that wasn't the only salvage, and the debris itself was barely shown bigger than Talon.
Yes. While they might not fight to the death, they're still practicing to hone their own skills - to not lose in a real fight. It might not be indicative of a battle to the death between the two, but Mace doesn't spar to lose or look bad, as we saw when he embarrassed Vos in a spar in Star Wars Jedi - Mace Windu. A holding back Mace trying to get better due to sparring is a higher combatant than Shado has ever fought.
Moreover, you've accepted Tiin's accolades of being comparable to Kit/Kolar earlier. Kolar beat Vos fairly easily, and Vos, well, let's get back to him from earlier.
Vos fought Secura in a battle that a trained Clone could barely follow, indicating Tiin should be even faster and better than merely a "blur"
Vos gave a good battle to Sora Bulq at the height of his power who was a Lightsaber Instructor before falling to the darkside.
Vos stalemated Tholme, who even Count Dooku gave credit to his saber skills.
Intrinsically, from you accepting the accolades from Tiin, you give him general parity to Kolar in saber skills, and therefore put him above Vos. Couple that with his sparring against Mace Windu, and his only real low feat being against Darth Sidious, and you have no way to compare Shado to him in any capacity.
At best your arguments cast doubt on Tiin being above everyone named in this thread. Yet you've proven nothing on your side except that Shado can fight featless characters off panel, and that you can try and connect three eras through Influence only. That's assuming you succeeded by the way. In actuality:
You have no answer for Tiin's telepathy. You couldn't even post a response that even came close to answering it. And even if you could, you failed to tie it into Shado in anyway. The picture used for Shado for this debate is when his mind was getting messed with for that matter.
You have no answer for Tiin having general parity in lightsaber skills with Jedi Masters like Agen Kolar, Kit Fisto, and Shaak Ti, along with the myriad of feats that accompany them.
You have no answer for the few force feats Tiin has. You've misinterpreted a feat of Cade Skywalker, and at best your argument creates parity over Mace Windu, as opposed to superiority (like what the comic displays). Being portrayed as possibly in the realm or equal with Windu is in no ways a bad feat, as again, shown by him effortlessly putting down Sora Bulq, along with his army busting feat.
You've really failed to mount an offense at all. Trying to rally down accolades/feats slightly does not create an opportunity for Shado even if successful.
Your entire argument hinges on the voters believing that you can scale three eras based off their influence over the galaxy. Even if we accept this, you really don't want to compare Krayt's Sith to Revan's Sith, as it is not a very adroit tactic.
Tiin win easily. Judges, do not be deceived by this man.
Someone posted a rebuttal to my post that wasn't meant to be addressed by anyone other than Decaf.
Heck it was posted on CV not KMC.
Oh well I can easily get down to addressing this later if I get bored.
__________________
"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "