Kenobi. Qel-droma for the most part defeated a bunch of chumps like Warb Null. So what if he staelmated Kun? Kun's best feat is beating Vodo-siosk Baas, who's great but I wouldn't hold a candle to someone who's THE master of Soresu, defeated Grivous, etc.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
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Prove that that's a different form. It may just be his own personalized fighting style rather than a separate form on its own, it may just be an innovated version of Niman.
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Registered: Mar 2014
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Even if that is the case, I don't see how that is relevant considering that nobody tried to directly copy Kun's style, ergo nobody practices Kun's style in that case for the creator>practitioner viewpoint to be applicable here.
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
I would assume that a style gets more and more refined throughout the years, it's actually said in Arca Jeth's profile that later on Lightsaber forms get better and have better users throughout the ages of the Jedi order.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
But at a certain point you'd have to expect diminishing return, and I think after thousands of years or refinement I'm not sure you can expect much further progression.
Kun would destroy Kenobi with his force abilities, as duelists though they are on the same tier at least.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
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The invention of Vaapad is an example.
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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Any martial art evolves after being introduced. Claiming that inventor of a style will be better than all future practitioners that learned evolved/refined version of the same style is absurd.
He did not invent a form. He just learned to fight with saber staff, which is nothing extraordinary.
That does not prove anything. Sidious did all sort of things that Luke/Mace/Yoda couldn't dream off, doesn't mean he is better than them.
No, she couldn't be invisible in the Force and use darkside at the same time. She was absent in the Force. Darkside was breaking Force severing and at that point Luke could sense her.
It is virtually impossible for a non-sensitive to keep up with a notable Force user in combat. Mandalorians that use lots of dirty tricks and gadgets don't count. There is no way for Uliq being able to fight evenly a Force user, unless that user couldn't sense him as well.
And if you imply that the "notable jedi" could sense Uliq in the Force, you indirectly label him a moron for simply not rag-dolling Uliq around like Desann did to Kyle Katarn.
Nice try. Vodo's stick does not compare to saber stuff. Kun was getting outmatched until he switched to double-bladed saber.
And if defeating Vodo is such an impressive feat, fine. Kenobi easily counters it with far more impressive feats against Opress/Maul and Anakin.
Last edited by Arhael on Sep 8th, 2014 at 03:32 PM
My point was that creating a form is indivative of a comparatively greater understanding of that form (as it was when he created it) then simply mastering a form (as it was when he mastered it). Whether the forms substantially progressed is a seperate issue but you have not provided a particularly compelling argument that they did, whereas the simple fact that they had existed for thousands of years, in times of both war and peace, would suggest that there wasn't exctly all that much room for improvement. There were also no major changes to the manner in which Jedi/Sith operated or the technological or martial capabilities of their adversaries in future generations, so there's nothing to suggest that the forms would have had to have been substantially adapted to changes in the times.
As it stands, Exar Kun was the creator of a form that was stated to be superior to the existing lightsaber forms at the time, and Maul was simply the master of a form that you haven't exactly established was noticeably more advanced than the forms of Exar's time.
That is quite incorrect, he did.
This isn't a simple matter of there being qualitative differences in the things they respectively have done or can do, it's a matter of Exar simply performing at a quantifiably higher level than they have and repeatedly doing things that are quite unprecedented where they never do anything particularly outside the norm. Whether it comes to brilliance with a lightsaber or the scale of their powers, Exar Kun vastly outstrips them.
Either way it sounds like a different technique/condition, as the Sever Force ability has been well documented and it's made very clear that it is simply their ability to use the Force that is diminished.
There are numerous occasions where a notable Force User is bested in combat by a non-Force User without the use of tricks or gadgets or extreme circumstances; refer to a young Malak getting bested by a Mandalorian in a conventional duel in the KOTOR comics as an example. It's never been established that even notably powerful (but not extraordinarily powerful) Jedi/Sith can easily overwhelm a non-Force User with speed alone. It's an advantage but not necessarily a determining one. Technique can make up the difference.
And surely Sylvar would be able to use this blitz worthy speed, whether she could sense Ulic or not? Jedi rely on their ability to sense things in the Force, but it doesn't make them blind to their other senses.
Or maybe an enraged animalistic warrior would simply rather have beaten him down in a more pysically intimate manner that a lightsaber duel allows? Or numerous other reasons?
Last edited by appletonia on Sep 8th, 2014 at 04:09 PM
So should we assume facts not in evidence as a general practice now or only when it concerns characters/eras that the general public doesn't care about (e.g. Exar Kun, Bane, and all your favorite characters)?
The facts are in evidence, I just don't know where the evidence is! It's up to you whether you believe me or not, it was somebody called Advent at some other forum that I first recall bringing it up (and at the time I did verify it for myself from some sourcebook or another).
But as I said to dmb, whether it was superior to the forms or not, he was still able to use it to dominate a centuries old battlemaster, which is either a reflection of the fact that he was capable of creating a very advanced form, or was just that damn good that he was able to use an ineffectual form to dominate a centuries old battlemaster (in which case you can only imagine how good he would have been when he fought Ulic and used a credible form).
Either way, stalemating even an injured Ulic Qel-droma, or netting multiple wins against that same centuries old battlemaster while still a padawan (years before the comics he appears in), suggest that his talent/ability vastly outstrips the likes of Maul's.
You don't seem like a particularly trustworthy fellow. There's something shifty about you.
Or perhaps that "centuries old battlemaster" just wasn't that good in the grand scheme of things? Or perhaps a reflection of superior Force talent and not necessarily a product of prodigious technical aptitude?
Maul is accredited as high end master of multiple forms and is consistently referred to as one of the most skilled warriors in Sith history. In light of that, your assertions that stalemating Qel-Droma makes one vastly superior to Maul seem pretty empty, especially when there's little to nothing by way of evidence to suggest that that's actually the case.
Sep 7th, 2014 09:44 PM
