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Darth Vader vs. Darth Zannah
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Nargaroth
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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: Italy

quote: (post)
Originally posted by red8
LOL

The Sith masters of the Rule of Two era > Vader, Dooku, or Revan

Not really a fair analysis since we only see Zannah use her illusions like 3 times.

Zannah was still a young apprentice when she faced Sarro. She was on a Nexus, but Sarro was roided-up on battle meditation.

Set Harth was a fallen Jedi and was definitely force sensitive. Zannah's sorcery left him in a coma for several days.

Zannah was forced to use a weaker illusion on Bane because of the injuries that she suffered. Bane was also completely prepared for her illusion.

Bane, knowing that Zannah would one day use sorcery against him, studied it to defend himself. Despite all of this, he still struggled with Zannah's illusion:

Bane was able to resist and he used what seemed like Force Lightning to knock Zannah back, but despite her injuries, she quickly regained her balance.

Bane and Sarro were both physical powerhouses and Zannah did fine against them in sabers.

She was still very inexperienced at dueling when she fought Sarro, yet she was smart enough to keep Johun alive. Even when she went one-on-one with Sarro, she still managed to hold him off for a while.

When she faced Bane, Bane was at first very aggressive. He tried to overpower her with brute force, but Zannah was able to hold him off. When he realized that he couldn't just power through her defenses, he switched to using more precision.

Zannah was doing just fine against Bane until she tripped on the graves.
Vader isn't bringing anything to the table that Zannah hasn't dealt with.

Zannah is prodigy in TK. As a little girl with no training at all, she was killing Jedi and tearing off limbs. Vader isn't going to be TKing her.

One final thing, Bane was emotionally much more stable than Anakin or Vader ever were. Zannah's illusions would crush Vader.

1. Vader's TK is above Zannah's by at least a decent degree. Dooku could likely beat her due to being even more skilled than Vader, and because Soresu seems to be weak against Makashi, though I'm not sure about that.

2. Vader also mind raped Force sensitives only once, 20+ years before ROTJ, and while not even attempting to incapacitate Nick Rostu (he had a task for him, so he wouldn't do that). But fair enough, I won't necessarily claim that he is equal to Zannah , though I did it before. However, it could also be argued that Bane was somewhat weakened in that fight.

3. Bane's preparation has no meaning in this context, considering that, by his own word, defense against sorcery based TP is a matter of willpower:

That didn't mean he was unprepared, however. Dark side sorcery was
complex; it attacked the psyche in ways that were difficult to explain and
even more difficult to defend against. Bane had no talent for it, yet he had
done his best to study the techniques. What he learned was that the only
real counter was the victim's strength of will.

Regular TP , instead, is defended against mainly via mental barriers, at least in its more aggressive applications which means that you can't mentally rape a superior or equal Force user with it.

4.Vader could arguably do that as well.

5.Vader is likely even better than them, and his strenght feats include shattering crystalline pillars while gravely wounded, crushing a stormtrooper's heads, and supporting the weight of a dozen men.

He is also considerably better than them duelling wise, not to the point that he would instantly stomp Zannah, but she stands no chance to last in a duel against him for a long time.

6. Except that duelling wise, he is much better than anyone she has ever faced, and he has mastered a hybrid Djem So style that borrows elements from all combat techniques, which would probaly surprise her.

7. Ragdoll her? No, probably not, but considering that he has Force gripped the Starkiller clone (you know, the same guy who disintegrated half of a 300 mt ship while maintaining a Force shield) years before his prime, I'd doubt that.

And even if I disregarded this example I could argue that Vader performed his best telekinetic feats years or even decades before ROTJ.

Concerning Vader's psychological issues, you don't have to be emotionally stable to have a strong will, so he should be able to resist