__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Krayt isn't above Kas'im as far as blades are concerned.
__________________ There's a man goin' 'round takin' names.
An' he decides who to free and who to blame.
Everybody won't be treated all the same.
There'll be a golden ladder reaching down.
When the man comes around.
Indeed. Kas'im has the far superior resume when it comes to lightsaber ability between him and Krayt, and Bane at the time of his fight with Kas'im was probably already more powerful than any version of Krayt and he wasn't able to overpower Kas'im with the Force. In fact I'd argue that Kas'im would have a very good chance of beating Krayt in an all out battle, let alone Noob Skywalker.
Really? Because once he becomes Krayt he never loses a saber fight, he at least holds some edge against everyone he fights. He's also been involved in much more fights. I mean, Kas'im is good, but Krayt's record is really quite impressive itself.
Even as A'Sharad he was skilled enough to be a serious threat to Obi-wan.
And, of course, his force power dwarfs Kas'im's.
Bane killed Kas'im thanks to the force. And no, Bane, especially this early, is certainly not stronger than Krayt.
I rate Kas'im higher than several others do here... but no, Kas'im's outmatched.
Don't know Cade, do you? Has completed Jedi and Sith training, been in fights with numerous masters who in turn have both saber and force feats, and he's killed many sith warriors. Heck, for several months he literally worked as a bounty hunter specializing in killing Sith (the Hutts were paying a lot for Sith lightsabers).
By the time he's taking on Reborn Krayt, he's a fully trained, very experienced fighter who's been involved in a war with the sith for over a year.
I think this is where we ultimately disagree. Kas'im isn't merely good, he's a borderline transcendental lightsaber technician. I'd argue the difference in lightsaber skill between he and Krayt is larger than the difference between them in the Force, and either way I'm not convinced Krayt would even be able to overpower him in that area anyway.
Bane by that point is already extremely impressive. His destruction of the temple alone is probably superior to any offensive application of the Force we've ever seen from Krayt, and months later he's capable of absorbing and channeling Force Lightning across the entire planet (and would have been able to destroy the planet). He's also blitzed talented Force Users by this point, created a storm of Force Lightning that was large enough to engulf an entire assembly hall about an hour after learning to use Force Lightning at all, has dominated powerful Force Users "as if their Force defences weren't even there", practically laughed at Kaan's attempt to mentally influence him. Krayt's resume really isn't all that impressive in all honesty.
I thought it might have been a bit longer by the time they carried out that ritual specifically, but it probably was merely days. Still, I'm open to the possibilty Bane might still have gone through a power boost between his duel with Kas'im and the ritual. Sith usually reach new levels of clarity in their understanding of the darkside after big milestones such as killing their masters.
Keep in mind Krayt was dominant in an era with a lot of fully trained Jedi and Sith (one of the points of PoD was a *lot* of the Jedi and Sith of the time were undertrained, Kas'im being one of the rare strong ones), as well as even his Jedi form being one of the better duelists in the order during the Clone Wars... a time known for it's exceptional light saber skills.
I'm not saying that Kas'im's not awesome at sabers, it's just that Krayt's rather awesome too. He started out as a blade technician before delving into the secrets of the force.
As for force strength, both Luke Skywalker and Caedus felt he was very strong, and then when he was reborn his power substantially increased. Krayt also achieved a technique on control of life and death to a level no-one had before.
Yeah he is. Who has Kas'im actually beaten that puts him above Krayt. Krayt has fought Abeloth, Celeste Morne, Cade Skywalker, Darth Wyyrlok, and speedblitz 4 Imperial Knights simultaneously.
Kas'im has never beaten anyone.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
There's a lot that you can say about the BOD, but that it was a weak order when it came to conventional Sith on Jedi warfare is not one of them.
Yes, knowledge of Sith magic, rituals, and other esoteric darkside abilities and teachings were largely lost. Yes, their approach of trying to defeat the Jedi through conventional warfare was not working. Yes, the darkside is at its most pure when concentrated among a select few rather than legions. Yes, towards the end of the war, they were taking on virtually anyone that could possibly fight, whether they were random fodder soldiers or barely trained Force Using children. And yes, in comparison to Bane, most of the order were pretty weak. It's also true that Bane was very critical of his contemporaries and greatly admired the Sith of old, but it's hardly unheard of for people to glorify past generations and be unfairly critical of the reality they are faced with.
When such a large focus of the book is on the above, it's easy to fall into the trap of just assuming that they suck, but the idea that they were poorly trained lightsaber practitioners is not compatible with everything we know about their resources or methodology. They lived in a time where their raison d'etre was to engage Jedi in deadly combat, it had been that way for hundreds of years and would have been reflected in their training, hierarchy, survivability and experience.
And also, where your argument for Krayt seems to be based almost entirely on his relative position within his order/era, the argument for Kas'im is based largely on absolute feats, so the order that he was a part of is mostly irrelevant. Sure, it's impressive that he was clearly head and shoulders above everyone else in the order, but what's most impressive about Kas'im is the extent to which he is documented to have mastered the lightsaber, which is to a level far greater than anybody else can be said to attain. He mastered every single lightsaber form and for every single style of weapon in a matter of years, spent decades perfecting his skills, invented his own system by which the Sith academy learned the forms and sparred with one another, and would continue to practice obsessively long after he already practically fully mastered everything. It's suggested that he wasn't just the best lightsaber user of his time, but possibly the best ever.
The argument that you've provided for Krayt does not paint a picture of him particularly standing out in the grand scheme of things. There's always going to be someone who's fairly dominant in their era. He does not come across as transcendental in the way that Kas'im does, and that's the primary difference between the two.
You're clearly reaching here. There was virtually nothing particularly special or notable about him during his Jedi years.
That the Clone Wars was a time known for exceptional light saber skills is KMC SWVF fanon. The truth is that the time leading up to the Clone Wars was a time of relative peace that saw the underutilisation of the kinds of techniques and abilities that were specifically made for Jedi on Sith warfare (classic example being the rarity of Makashi). The Clone Wars itself was a war that saw hardly any engagements being Jedi and Dark Jedi/Sith.
The point is that Kas'im is many scales of awesome above Krayt.
It's an interesting skill, I'll grant him that, but he needs to lay a hand on Kas'im for it to work in the first place, and either way that he was able to defend himself against a supercharged attacl from a version of Bane that has superior feats to Krayt suggests that he would do the same to Krayt.
Edit - I can however see different scenarios where Krayt might be able to defeat him, but either way I don't see how Cade has a chance.
Sep 8th, 2014 12:54 AM
