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David Ayer to Direct Suicide Squad?!
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Zack M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Alright, you answered the question. Thank you. Now:

1) All the characters you mentioned above have fans that disagree strongly with your opinion. They do care. And it certainly didn't help things.

2) Nice Fury in the MCU is based off of Ultimate Nick Fury who was directly based on Samuel L. Jackson. So he's not a miscast at all.

3) The point is, even if you don't care, there are TONS of people that do. It's just a stupid/ lazy thing for studios to do.


1. I'm sure there are, but I really don't care. As long as I'm entertained and it's no use crying about it, since Will Smith is Deadshot. Nothing you can do about it now. wink

2. I knew you were going to use Ultimate Nick Fury, but I remember some fans still angry that they used a black Nick Fury, because that's not the one they grew up on. I actually prefer the white Nick Fury over the Ultimate one, but ultimately, I don't care. It didn't hurt the movie for me.

3. TONS? Nope. The GA doesn't care about Deadhsot being black, because most people don't know who Deadshot is, anyway.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 03:03 AM
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CPT Space Bomb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
1. I'm sure there are, but I really don't care. As long as I'm entertained and it's no use crying about it, since Will Smith is Deadshot. Nothing you can do about it now. wink

2. I knew you were going to use Ultimate Nick Fury, but I remember some fans still angry that they used a black Nick Fury, because that's not the one they grew up on. I actually prefer the white Nick Fury over the Ultimate one, but ultimately, I don't care. It didn't hurt the movie for me.

3. TONS? Nope. The GA doesn't care about Deadhsot being black, because most people don't know who Deadshot is, anyway.
Read the above posts...you're in the minority. By your logic, let's just switch EVERYONE around. Superman can be a Hispanic woman, Thor can be a parapalegic 12 year old...hell, who cares as long as they put a good performance for us.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 03:55 AM
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Zack M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Read the above posts...you're in the minority. By your logic, let's just switch EVERYONE around. Superman can be a Hispanic woman, Thor can be a parapalegic 12 year old...hell, who cares as long as they put a good performance for us.


Sounds good to me. thumb up


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 03:57 AM
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AlmightyKfish
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The big thing with this is whether race is important the character imo.

With the case of many of these, it's not at all so I don't really see a problem.

I mean, the vast majority of comic characters are white males as they were made in the 60s/70s, so if film makers etc want to switch things up then why not? I mean people may say it's pandering, but real life is hardly made up of just white people going around doing stuff so it's arguably more representative of that.

Again, unless race/gender or whatever is important to the character- ie making Deadshot a black guy doesn't affect his character at all, but Thor needs to be a white guy based on the character's backstory as a Norse God

And idea that they 'should just make new characters' is one that really doesn't work for the films, where they're based on the appeal and draw that pre-existing characters will bring.


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Last edited by AlmightyKfish on Dec 7th, 2015 at 01:01 PM

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 12:58 PM
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CPT Space Bomb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
The big thing with this is whether race is important the character imo.

With the case of many of these, it's not at all so I don't really see a problem.

I mean, the vast majority of comic characters are white males as they were made in the 60s/70s, so if film makers etc want to switch things up then why not? I mean people may say it's pandering, but real life is hardly made up of just white people going around doing stuff so it's arguably more representative of that.

Again, unless race/gender or whatever is important to the character- ie making Deadshot a black guy doesn't affect his character at all, but Thor needs to be a white guy based on the character's backstory as a Norse God

And idea that they 'should just make new characters' is one that really doesn't work for the films, where they're based on the appeal and draw that pre-existing characters will bring.
Why does Thor have to be white? Because he's Norse? They made Hiemdall black. No, your argument fails because you want to draw lines. I'm sorry, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Like I said, just because YOU don't think it's a big deal doesn't mean that others don't. Sure, most comics were written about white males....BUT THAT WAS THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC FOR AGES. Thankfully, they are creating more diverse characters; which is great.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 01:41 PM
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edit: dp


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 01:43 PM
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AlmightyKfish
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Why does Thor have to be white? Because he's Norse? They made Hiemdall black. No, your argument fails because you want to draw lines. I'm sorry, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Like I said, just because YOU don't think it's a big deal doesn't mean that others don't. Sure, most comics were written about white males....BUT THAT WAS THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC FOR AGES. Thankfully, they are creating more diverse characters; which is great.


I forgot about Heimdall actually so yeah, I guess it doesn't matter there. I think the example would be Luke Cage- his racial identity is important to the character so you wouldn't make him a white guy. I mean that would also make stuff less diverse which isn't great.

Yeah but the idea that the majority think it's a big deal is false as well.

The mainstream audience (which is what the films are going for) generally will not care either. There are far more people who don't care about Deadshot or Kingpin's ethnicity than ones who do, at least in regards to the movies. And I'm not even saying people are wrong when they bring up their problems with this, especially as different people have certain preferences / ideas about any given character.

And yeah making more diverse characters is a good step they're taking in the comcis etc, I'm just saying in regards to the films the changes are not always a bad thing - especially as you point out, the target audience for these things has changed from just white males.


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Last edited by AlmightyKfish on Dec 7th, 2015 at 02:56 PM

Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 02:48 PM
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CPT Space Bomb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
I forgot about Heimdall actually so yeah, I guess it doesn't matter there. I think the example would be Luke Cage- his racial identity is important to the character so you wouldn't make him a white guy. I mean that would also make stuff less diverse which isn't great.

Yeah but the idea that the majority think it's a big deal is false as well.

The mainstream audience (which is what the films are going for) generally will not care either. There are far more people who don't care about Deadshot or Kingpin's ethnicity than ones who do, at least in regards to the movies. And I'm not even saying people are wrong when they bring up their problems with this, especially as different people have certain preferences / ideas about any given character.

And yeah making more diverse characters is a good step they're taking in the comcis etc, I'm just saying in regards to the films the changes are not always a bad thing - especially as you point out, the target audience for these things has changed from just white males.
Done arguing this point. Nothing changes the fact that changing races/sexes for a character that's been established for decades is just lazy. We'll agree to disagree, because I think it's generally bad form.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 04:03 PM
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AlmightyKfish
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Fair enough.

Anyhow, there's rumors the second trailer for this might drop with Star Wars, which if true should be pretty cool.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 04:13 PM
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Zack M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Fair enough.

Anyhow, there's rumors the second trailer for this might drop with Star Wars, which if true should be pretty cool.


Nope. Roven said early next year, I believe.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:07 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
The big thing with this is whether race is important the character imo.

With the case of many of these, it's not at all so I don't really see a problem.

I mean, the vast majority of comic characters are white males as they were made in the 60s/70s, so if film makers etc want to switch things up then why not? I mean people may say it's pandering, but real life is hardly made up of just white people going around doing stuff so it's arguably more representative of that.

Again, unless race/gender or whatever is important to the character- ie making Deadshot a black guy doesn't affect his character at all, but Thor needs to be a white guy based on the character's backstory as a Norse God

And idea that they 'should just make new characters' is one that really doesn't work for the films, where they're based on the appeal and draw that pre-existing characters will bring.


Pretty much. If they nail deadshot as a character that's all that matters.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 05:09 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
Pretty much. If they nail deadshot as a character that's all that matters.
In your opinion, that's all that matters. Many disagree. Not necessarily on Deadshot; but the principal.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 06:07 PM
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The one percent maybe.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 08:58 PM
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CPT Space Bomb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
The one percent maybe.
Yes, because clearly you speak for 99% of people laughing Golgo, I'll give it to you, you are one amazing apologist.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 10:02 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Yes, because clearly you speak for 99% of people laughing Golgo, I'll give it to you, you are one amazing apologist.


The tons of people you speak of are the sweaty nerds who know of Deadshot. laughing out loud that's not even half of the GA.


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Old Post Dec 7th, 2015 10:29 PM
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CPT Space Bomb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
The tons of people you speak of are the sweaty nerds who know of Deadshot. laughing out loud that's not even half of the GA.
Again, I'm not talking about JUST Deadshot. I'm talking about the general process of replacing characters with different races/genders. Stop trying to pretend you speak for everyone, when it's clear you're just a spin man. AT BEST, I'll agree to disagree with you; but yah, you don't speak for the majority. Neither do I. Opinions and all that.


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Old Post Dec 8th, 2015 06:27 AM
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Zack M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Again, I'm not talking about JUST Deadshot. I'm talking about the general process of replacing characters with different races/genders. Stop trying to pretend you speak for everyone, when it's clear you're just a spin man. AT BEST, I'll agree to disagree with you; but yah, you don't speak for the majority. Neither do I. Opinions and all that.


Yeah, agree to disagree. My point still stands though. Unless you're superman, batman, spider-man, or any mainstream character, most people won't care.


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Old Post Dec 8th, 2015 06:32 AM
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CPT Space Bomb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
Yeah, agree to disagree. My point still stands though. Unless you're superman, batman, spider-man, or any mainstream character, most people won't care. In my opinion
Ftfy


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Old Post Dec 8th, 2015 06:37 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Ftfy


Not my opinion. If someone doesn't know deadshot is white, why would they care? The GA isn't invested in the character.


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Old Post Dec 8th, 2015 06:41 AM
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CPT Space Bomb
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack M
Not my opinion. If someone doesn't know deadshot is white, why would they care? The GA isn't invested in the character.
Yes, it is YOUR opinion when you try to speak for others. A 6 year old would be smart enough to comprehend that.. Holy crap, and again, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST DEADSHOT. You are not omniscient, omnipotent or omnipresent, though I'm sure you think you are.


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Old Post Dec 8th, 2015 07:44 AM
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