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Superman Prime VS THE DBZ UNIVERSE
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juggerman
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
That's another PoV that's quite diffused among fans.
Personally, I don't have anything against it, even if I actually believe in Ssj3 Gotenks > Super Boo (even if by a small gap).


The only reason i don't see it that way is that Super Buu can sense power levels and we clearly see how he reacts to the idea of someone being stronger than him. SSJ3 Gotenks wasn't holding anything back so there was no reason Buu wouldn't be able to clearly see he was the weaker of the two if that were the case. Hell he's so adept at sensing PL's that he could tell Gohan was his superior from across the galaxy while Goten and Piccolo didn't even notice.

And we know he has no issues pretending to be hurt or angry if needed like here:

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3140-...hapter-491.html

Part of it is untranslated but you can see what I'm saying.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 01:51 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by juggerman
I always thought Super Buu>SSJ3 Gotenks because he stated he was waiting for Gohan to appear.

http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3149-...hapter-500.html

He clearly states Gohan was stronger than him, not Gotenks. He says he needed to be the strongest but didn't seem to feel that way about Gotenks.

Then he says he didn't want to absorb them just to lose the power shortly afterwardsans he . This could mean he drew the fight out with them and he wasn't trying to win ie he was holding back.
thumb up

Aside from that, Piccolo states: "[Buu] has never fought someone so CLOSE to his strength before!":
http://i.imgur.com/Npo603e.gif
This implies that SSJ3 Gotenks was nearly as powerful as Buu, but not quite there(ie. if Buu=10, Gotenks=9-9.5.) That's what I was getting at with my previous comment that the difference between them was marginal.


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"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 13th, 2014 at 02:17 PM

Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 02:10 PM
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juggerman
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Yeah I just noticed that too as I was rereading through. Good catch


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 02:23 PM
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BloodRain
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@Sj_sharp: Its not about the ir power going it, its how the characters react. Everyone was shock when Freeza only doubles his BP. By the time he overall became 2.3x stronger at his 1% form, people were giving up hope. Just as Vegeta did to Goku's kaio-kens. All were amazed when Gohan doubled up, as they were for SPC. Just as the gang were when feeling Goku's 4x amp.



Then there's this, where Super is meant to be at the very least 400x since last seeing him as Fat. Only based on Piccolo's self admitted incorrect thought.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 06:00 PM
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Galan007
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Remember, Goku could have easily beaten Fat Buu had he not been holding back(Goku himself stated as much.) To further solidify this is the fact that SSJ3 Goku could have also beaten Kid Buu(who was > Fat Buu, per Supreme Kai) "in an instant" had he been able to reach full power--which he wasn't able to do because he'd already used a lot of energy phucking around with Kid Buu(and because the plot deemed it so, of course.) Anywho, this means Kid Buu would have been absolutely nothing in comparison to FPSSJ3 Goku... Which subsequently means that Fat Buu likely wouldn't have even registered on Goku's radar.
ie. FPSSJ3 Goku>>>>Kid Buu>Fat Buu.

And since some of the aforementioned characters have been used as measuring sticks for Gotenks' power here, the above info throws quite a wrench in the gears. Of course, it is still all secondary to Piccolo's [incorrect] statement regarding Gotenks' power/potential(as BloodRain has mentioned.)

All of that being said: Super Buu was decisively more powerful than Fat Buu, but there was not a 400x power differential between them--especially when we consider what a 'mere' 2x power boost did for Gohan against Perfect Cell. Despite that, I am to believe the difference between Super and Fat Buu was hundredS of timeS greater than the difference between Perfect Cell and SSJ2 Gohan? Sorry, but I can't follow that logic. /shrug


__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 13th, 2014 at 06:33 PM

Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 06:20 PM
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Werewolf582
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Superman prime can't be hurt if he indeed survived a Universal blast.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 08:19 PM
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Sj_Sharp
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRain
@Sj_sharp: Its not about the ir power going it, its how the characters react. Everyone was shock when Freeza only doubles his BP. By the time he overall became 2.3x stronger at his 1% form, people were giving up hope. Just as Vegeta did to Goku's kaio-kens. All were amazed when Gohan doubled up, as they were for SPC. Just as the gang were when feeling Goku's 4x amp.


Then there's this, where Super is meant to be at the very least 400x since last seeing him as Fat. Only based on Piccolo's self admitted incorrect thought.


Everyone can have the gap they want between the Boo saga characters, as far as I'm concerned (indeed, for example, we know that AT intendend later on the Ssj multiplier to be only 10x, so this shrinks the gap a lot); what I can't see be changed is the power chain.

If I can ask, on which base Piccolo's comment has been incorrect?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Remember, Goku could have easily beaten Fat Buu had he not been holding back(Goku himself stated as much.) To further solidify this is the fact that SSJ3 Goku could have also beaten Kid Buu(who was > Fat Buu, per Supreme Kai) "in an instant" had he been able to reach full power--which he wasn't able to do because he'd already used a lot of energy phucking around with Kid Buu(and because the plot deemed it so, of course.) Anywho, this means Kid Buu would have been absolutely nothing in comparison to FPSSJ3 Goku... Which subsequently means that Fat Buu likely wouldn't have even registered on Goku's radar.
ie. FPSSJ3 Goku>>>>Kid Buu>Fat Buu.

And since some of the aforementioned characters have been used as measuring sticks for Gotenks' power here, the above info throws quite a wrench in the gears. Of course, it is still all secondary to Piccolo's [incorrect] statement regarding Gotenks' power/potential(as BloodRain has mentioned.)

All of that being said: Super Buu was decisively more powerful than Fat Buu, but there was not a 400x power differential between them--especially when we consider what a 'mere' 2x power boost did for Gohan against Perfect Cell. Despite that, I am to believe the difference between Super and Fat Buu was hundredS of timeS greater than the difference between Perfect Cell and SSJ2 Gohan? Sorry, but I can't follow that logic. /shrug


Ssj3 Goku being >>>> Kid Boo is just an assumption: Goku couldn't finish him off because he wasn't able to sustain the Ssj3 with a living body, but at the beginning of the fight he was at full power (albeit for a short time), still his gap over Boo was anything but big.
Then, while Vegeta was distracting Boo, Goku tried to charge up his Ssj3 form in order to finish Boo (and theoretically he could have done this, no doubt, Vegeta tells us and Goku confirms it), but the effect actually was reverse on his live body.
So yes, in short, Ssj3 Goku had a power advantage over Kid Boo, but there's nothing implying he could have remotely had loads of extra power up his sleeve which could justify a ">>>>" gap over Boo.

Despite the actual number you want to put in for the gap, to me it's quite obvious that the margin Super Boo has over Fat Boo should be >>>> the gap between Ssj2 Gohan and Perfect Cell: indeed, Gohan and Cell are characters placed in the same ballpark in power, like Ssj Goku and final form Freeza or Super Vegeta and semi-Cell (given the respective gaps of course); contrariwise, Super Boo is a fusion tier character, while Fat Boo clearly isn't. I mean, it took a Ssj3 fusion in order to compete with Super Boo, while the Ssj kids were very close to Ssj adults in power; Goku also said that mighty Gogeta was needed against Super Boo, and in order to beat a character who isn't even 3 times stronger than him (Boohan), holy Vegetto had to be formed (i.e. a Potara fusion which outclasses by far, in power, even the fusion dance itself).
It's not Goku's or Fat Boo's or Kid Boo's fault if they are ants if compared to Super Boo (irrespective of actual BP numbers), indeed they are the top dogs of non-fused characters (only Ultimate Gohan is the exception, which speaks volume of how freakin' powerful Gohan was), but fusion tier guys are another story.
Hell, we are even told that Gogeta couldn't have got the job done against Boohan (we are told this by Boohan and Goku himself)... The gap is huge.

Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 09:45 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Ssj3 Goku being >>>> Kid Boo is just an assumption: Goku couldn't finish him off because he wasn't able to sustain the Ssj3 with a living body, but at the beginning of the fight he was at full power (albeit for a short time), still his gap over Boo was anything but big.
SSJ3 Goku was never at full power against Kid Buu. Why? Because he needed a minute to fully power up, and Buu never gave him that much time. Goku explicitly states this after Vegeta comments that he could destroy Buu "in an instant" at full power:
http://i.imgur.com/5mCHNcP.gif
The only reason Vegeta engaged Buu at all was to try and give Goku the minute he needed to power up--but by then his stamina was already taxed, rendering him unable to achieve max power.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Then, while Vegeta was distracting Boo, Goku tried to charge up his Ssj3 form in order to finish Boo (and theoretically he could have done this, no doubt, Vegeta tells us and Goku confirms it), but the effect actually was reverse on his live body.
Had SSJ3 Goku not had an extended battle with Kid Buu before attempting to power up, he almost certainly could have reached full power. But like I said above: by the time Vegeta entered the fray to try and buy Goku time, his[Goku's] stamina was already taxed.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
So yes, in short, Ssj3 Goku had a power advantage over Kid Boo, but there's nothing implying he could have remotely had loads of extra power up his sleeve which could justify a ">>>>" gap over Boo.
'Character A' defeating 'Character B' "in an instant", implies that he can do so casually/easily/effortlessly--with a single attack, perhaps. So yeah, I'd say that definitely justifies a ">>>>" power differential... But that's neither here nor there.

The point is that FPSSJ3 Goku was far more powerful than Kid Buu--thus Fat Buu(who, again, was < Kid Buu) would have been fodder in comparison to him.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Despite the actual number you want to put in for the gap, to me it's quite obvious that the margin Super Boo has over Fat Boo should be >>>> the gap between Ssj2 Gohan and Perfect Cell
If that's what you think, then so be it. However, the gap between Perfect Cell and SSJ2 Gohan was less than 2x, yet that was still sufficient for Gohan to utterly TOY with Cell as though he were a weak feeb.

Given that, there's no way Super Buu was 400x> Fat Buu. That multiplier is WAAAAY too high.


__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 13th, 2014 at 10:26 PM

Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 10:15 PM
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BloodRain
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From Piccolo on the following page saying that Gotenks probably doesn't stand a chance, after witnessing all of his attempts embarrassingly fail.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2014 10:22 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
In DB, characters' Ki sensing has always basically been the word of author, especially with statements coming from Piccolo and Kuririn.

Regarding thousands, I assume you mean the gap between Beerus and SPC?
If so, I think there's no way we can escape from that, and this because of the Boo saga being the measurement stick for BoG.
During Boo saga, BP grow exponentially, and something that was the top tier in the Cell saga (Ssj2) becomes the absolute fodder during Boo's time.
Now let's use the official Ssj multipliers (there would be many things to say about them, but that's not the moment nor the place) and follow the Boo saga power chain (with few approximations of course):

- SPC: 1
- Ssj2 Goku (Boo saga): 1 [actually, he is slightly stonger than SPC, but that's one of the approximations I was talking about)
- Ssj3 Goku: 4
- Base Gotenks post: 4
- Ssj Gotenks post: 200
- Ssj2 Gotenks: 400
- Ssj3 Gotenks: 1600
- Super Boo: 1600
- Bootenks: 3200

Beerus is way above even Bootenks: the gap between him and SPC is in the thousands, at minimum.




I wasn't sure which dub was (english or american), but now I've done my researches: it's the Funimation dub.
At min 3:20 there's this line from King Kai: "Beerus the destroyer is the strongest destructive force in the whole universe, it's in his name. He's at a level you didn't even know existed. He's so moody he'll wipe out a cluster of galaxies if someone looks at him funny."

As you know, this line doesn't exist in the orginal source.



Fair enough then. thumb up


This.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2014 03:19 AM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Werewolf582
Superman prime can't be hurt if he indeed survived a Universal blast.
You're a fookin' crook.


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2014 04:45 AM
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Tzeentch
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is this what rape feels like?


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2014 04:53 AM
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StealthRanger
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People are actually debating this? :lmao


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Old Post Oct 19th, 2014 05:09 AM
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carver9
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Yes because Superman Prime isn't indestructible and can be hurt and dropped.


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2014 02:12 AM
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NemeBro
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He survived the destruction of a universe.

No DBZ character can claim that.

He has moved planets like they're marbles and destroyed them physically.

No DBZ character can claim that.

Superman Prime fought with someone who wielded the power of the Big Bang and ultimately won.

No DBZ character can claim that.


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2014 02:51 AM
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Galan007
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Prime also flew through pure Anti-Matter energy(a destructive force in DC that can atomize entire universes) with a smile on his face.

He also tanks attacks from Green Lanterns, like they're throwing snowballs at him.


__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Old Post Oct 20th, 2014 02:56 AM
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Time Immemorial
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Prime murder stomps!!!

Old Post Oct 20th, 2014 03:31 AM
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StealthRanger
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
Yes because Superman Prime isn't indestructible and can be hurt and dropped.


Nobody said he was indestructible, though DBZ doesn't come close to pushing his limits


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2014 06:57 AM
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Werewolf582
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro


He has moved planets like they're marbles and destroyed them physically.

No DBZ character can claim that.



For one this is far more impressive

(please log in to view the image)

And Android 18 broke Vegeta's arm with a kick. Vegeta had large planet durability then.


Striking feats > Lifting and pushing feats

IMHO


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2014 12:23 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Prime also flew through pure Anti-Matter energy(a destructive force in DC that can atomize entire universes) with a smile on his face.

He also tanks attacks from Green Lanterns, like they're throwing snowballs at him.


Like throwing snowballs at him huh?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/...muchforgls3.jpg

"Nnnnnghhhh"

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/...muchforgls4.jpg

"Aaaaarrrrrr"

Antimatter is a good ft though.


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2014 01:55 PM
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