Starkiller has never moved fast enough to be perceived as a bolt of red lightning, never dodged omnidirectional blaster fire, never moved among hundreds of Kursid of warriors and received no damage, and never moved faster than 114D (who could dodge blaster bolts himself, and possessed advanced photoreceptors) could track. Plagueis is faster than Starkiller.
I never said Plagueis would outduel Vader, granted Venamis is a superior opponent to the vast majority of Vader's opponents (Roan Shryne, Dark Woman, ESB Luke, and ROTJ Luke) are all nowhere near as fast as Venamis. Vader is more skilled, but given Plagueis's speed, comparable physical strength, and vastly superior mobility that advantage is negated.
I'll just agree to disagree
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Vitiate is no match for either Vader or the Emperor and gets summarily ragdolled or blitzed by either Vader or Sidious
And Plagueis while superior to Vader, is no match for them as a team. Vitiate isnt helping Plagueis at all.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Yeah he is. Vitiate is only approaching Sidious with a nexus and prep, off nexus he is slower, massively outgunned in terms of force power, and far less skilled on a hideously obvious level.
He wont even be able to perceive Sidious's movements let alone react to them. He'd died before he could even try to gather power.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
What I'm confused about is why so many people are wanking on Vitiate. He's not in any way shape or form the weak link. Plagueis could beat Vader, though it could go either way for the most part IMO. Now with Sheev and Viti it purely depends on their incarnations. If it's DE Sidious then it doesn't really matter and team 1 wins, unless it's post Ziost Vitiate who just might last long enough for Plagueis to take out Vader, or for him to die and get double teamed. Either way though, it rides on incarnations, anything but Ziost Vitiate will probably lose assuming Sids is as of RotJ or past. Otherwise might go either way again but I'm just going to stop here until the OP decides to state what the god damn incarnations are.
I actually see Plageuis as the weak link here. He's greatly attuned to the dark side and the most philosophical Sith Lord out there...but that's the problem. He's an academic. He's nowhere near as combat-oriented as the others, especially Vader. He might be faster and more agile than Vader...but so is almost everyone Vader's ever faced. And Vader is still capable of moving at blinding speeds. Team 1 has the clear edge as swordsmen.
In terms of Force powers though, it's almost a dead heat. Vader's very much a blunt instrument with massive TK power, but Plagueis can very likely match that himself. All 3 of the others are experts with lightning, though Plagueis probably falls shortest among them. But he makes up for it with midi-chlorian manipulation...if he can get close enough and hold an opponent down long enough to use it. Sidious and Vitiate probably wash out with lightning, but Sidious has other things like dark rage and essence transfer to fall back on. Vitiate has some Sith sorcery powers, but they take time and concentration to use.
Overall, I'd say Team 1's superior swordplay keeps Team 2 from really using their game-ending Force powers. They just won't have an opportunity to use them if they're busy defending themselves from furious lightsaber offensives. Team 1 wins about 7 times out of 10.
The thing is, Vitiate is also an academic on principle, and moreso. He studies the dark side's secrets, performs rituals, and uses esoteric powers, all traits of an academic, but unlike Plagueis, he demonstrates little physical practice and no lightsaber practice. Plagueis is clearly an adept martial artist and lightsaber duelist, whereas Vitiate can claim neither. Vitiate's demonstrated agility and lightsaber skill is by far the least out of all the combatants here, and that's the primary reason for team 1's clear advantage as bladesmen.
Vader's ability to move at blinding speeds isn't overly notable among high-tier Force users, and Plagueis has done better.
I don't see how Plagueis is "nowhere near" the combatant Sidious is. They both despise lightsaber combat but are masters of it anyway, and they're both physical monsters despite being more Inquisitor-like Force users (the idea is that with Banite Sith, they become more and more well-rounded). They're also both clearly masterful martial artists. Sidious is obviously Hego's superior in all categories, but Plagueis and Sidious operate under similar philosophies/concepts when it comes to combat. Sure, he's not combat-oriented in the same way Vader is, but that doesn't prevent him from beating Vader.
Plagueis can more than match Vader's telekinetic feats - it's pretty clear his are in excess of Vader's. As for his Midi-chlorian manipulation, I highly doubt he would even attempt it in combat such as this, and even then, the effects on a full-powered, resisting Force-sensitive of such high caliber are dubious at best.
Plagueis' lightning isn't just putting Vader down on the spot, and Vader has his lightsaber as well.
Vader's the weak link in that either of his enemies could beat him, but Plagueis is not outright stomping him.
That being said, I didn't factor in that Sidious may choose a similar approach to Talzin against Vitiate here, which would be a contest of Force powers that, even if it's in his favor, will take a long and strenuous effort to win (and Plagueis would beat Vader before that). That would basically seal it for his team - he needs to make avid use of his melee capabilities to bring an end to the fight.
Oct 29th, 2014 05:18 AM
