"Real life" analysis is not applicable to movie fights.
If we applied your logic, then 99% of movie martial artists are inept because none of their moves are "proper" or something that would fail in a "real street fight".
Same thing about how a character might handle a gun, sword or even lightsaber. None of them under real life analysis would pass.
You have to look at the outcome - the result of the punch/kick/fight.
I'm surprised no one has broken down each Character's maneuverability, Boyka doesn't just "do flashy kicks". He dodges with Precision, he doesn't just act flashy because he feels like it, he is more flexible as a fighter and can dodge punches and kicks thrown at him by Bourne.
Bourne's fights lack things like 'flying spin kicks' cos while they look nice/flashy, they're silly and all but useless against an opponent who knows not to stand there and wait for the move to complete, why you hardly if ever see them used in actual MMA fights.
And the ad hominem attacks, lets me know you know that you lost. Bourne tears apart other super-assassins, is quick enough to disarm and neutralize armed men in a matter of seconds and has survived more damage than an normal man should. Logic dictates that the nigh super-human assassin beats the guy with the fancy moves. #logicallogic
They don't need to be nice and flashy, whatever helps you avoid your opponent is doable, Boyka doesn't just do those moves because he feels like it, he does it to ensure maximum damage, if Bourne tried to hit him during one of these "Fancy Kicks" he'd get... well, kicked, just because they show him doing the moves in slow-motion, doesn't mean he is actually doing all the kicks in slow-motion, watch the parts of the fight that aren't slowed down and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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1. No feats to back that up besides your subjective opinion of Boyka's speed/ admitted inability to comprehend Bourne's fight choreography. Interesting.
2. Same as above.
3. LOL! There are a lot of durable parkour-trained martial artists I don't know about if that's something "anybody can do". And Bourne got shot, beat down armed cops, rammed his car into another, walked away, and beat down armed cops after that. A broken leg is not comparable.
4. Read above. The shot Kirill hit Bourne with would have immediately downed any man. Bourne not only was still beating down armed cops afterwards, but tanked a car crash after that, which, combined with the bullet wound, would have definitely at the very least rendered even the toughest man unconscious and undoubtedly broken a few bones. Bourne walked away from that and was still beating down armed cops afterwards.
And then later, Bourne drove his car off a parking garage roof, walked away, was himself T-boned, walked away, took a bullet and a 10 story drop into the East River and swam away. A drop like that would break every bone in a person's body, and again, combined with the bullet wound and prior car crashes would have rendered even the toughest man at least unconscious. Bourne tanked it like it was nothing. Both above stated events are far better durability feats than fighting with a broken knee.
5. Few things:
A) Treadstone and Blackbriar assassins are undoubtedly more skilled than Boyka or his prison pals
B) Why would they limit themselves to pure H2H
C) You clearly didn't see the scene with Castel where Bourne snapped his limbs. The fact that Castel was still functioning after that goes back to point A.
D) "better in all categories" LMFAO! I can guarantee you Bourne have have a helluva better time in Boyka's prison tournament than Boyka would have outmaneuvering Treadstone/Blackbriar. Hell, Boyka will try to disarm a cop and probably get shot in the face like a John Wick victim.
Boyka is a beast, but Bourne is a $30 million black ops human superweapon. Bourne has consistently better H2H feats against far more impressive opponents, has superhuman-level durability feats, and is in general far better trained and skilled than Boyka. Boyka has no chance here.
Flashy kicks don't happen in MMA because they're so hard to do properly. Considering that Boyka uses them effectively against high-caliber opponents shows just how good he is. Besides, those flashy kicks are very unpredictable and hit from weird angles. Bourne would be taken by surprise.
As for Boyka's opponents waiting for them to get hit, this happens in every action movie. Even Bourne's opponents have times where they just stand there waiting to get hit.
Waiting to get jabbed in the face takes a lot less time than standing there waiting for a guy to jump, gain distance, complete a full rotation and then kick you.
Because you have guys standing still in Undisputed 3 waiting for the flashy kick to finish instead of moving out of the way and setting up a counter, since it's not a fast attack. eg Capoeira looks great, but there's a reason top MMA guys aren't employing these uber fancy spin-jump-kicks in an actual match.
Either that, or Boyka just moves that fast that they don't have the luxury of time to move away.
In a way, I have to agree with Placidity on this:
If we criticized every movie fight from a real-world point of view then Boyka's spinning kicks won't seem realistically fast and Bourne's punches/hits would look nothing more than slaps.
So we either take both of them at face-value or we consider both of them from a real-world perspective. You have to play fair.
You can't choose to be realistic with Boyka then choose to suspend disbelief for Bourne.
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Last edited by FrothByte on Nov 4th, 2014 at 05:59 PM
I've no problem with that. Which means Bourne is able to neutralize (sometimes armed) opponents in a blink with his speed and has super-human durability and pain tolerances far above anything Boyka and his janky knee have shown. Bullets, great falls, car crashes, beat-downs, the guy keeps on going due to his genetic, physical and psychological training/upgrades.
Correct. I have no problem admitting Bourne is better at neutralizing armed opponents. It's fighting skilled fighters in h2h that I'm questioning him, simply due to no shown ground game whereas Boyka has decent striking capacity which Bourne would primarily be using. Plus, Boyka uses unconventional moves that Bourne doesn't look like he's ever come across.
Are you implying that neutralizing unarmed opponents would be more difficult for Bourne? Cos that really doesn't make much sense.
Again, I don't see "aerial kick" as being the kryptonite to Operation Treadstone guys. 30mil+ to turn a guy into a super-assassin with contingency plans out the ass, but they never covered what to do in case someone jump kicks you?
But even then if we go with the laughable "Bourne won't know what to do against a flying kick", there's the fact that his super-human durability and pain tolerances will allow him to just tank it and then use his superior speed to break Boyka and his already compromised knee.
edit: What you said also goes both ways, if Bourne's not going to be prepared for a flying kick, then Boyka's not going to be prepared with the way Bourne fights.
I'm implying that armed opponents aren't exactly h2h experts unless they prove otherwise, and that people who've specifically specialized in fighting h2h are better than people who've had to learn a bunch of other stuff together with h2h.
The way Bourne fights, is utilizing punches, kicks, pressure points and locks... all of which Boyka has shown to utilize and fight against. But some of Boyka's techniques will be stuff that Bourne hasn't come up against yet, at least as far as what has been shown in the movies.
1. You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that I couldn't comprehend it, just that it's shit, especially compared to the well-shot and well-done fights in the Undisputed movies. Boyka is faster than Bourne even without all the shaky cam and cutaway gimicks.
2. And what feats does Bourne have other than beating feeble assassins with no feats? Because a tired and crippled Boyka beat a guy juiced on roids, the same guy who was dominating the tournament and outright killing people in the ring.
3. A broken knee. I don't think you comprehend that having your knees broken can cripple you for life (like in Boyka's case). And he continued to fight and won with his screwed up knee. People have survived getting shot, car-crashes etc. in real life but there has never been a case of a man with a broken knee getting back up and winning a fight or tournament. And I'd like to see anyone try to perform flying spinning kicks with a busted knee.
4. Pure nonsense. There have been cases of soldiers getting shot to shit and still having enough left in them to kill multiple enemies. It's extremely impressive but not superhuman.
5.
A) Based on? And I want feats, not more 30 million dollar bullshit
B) Because this is an H2H match and Bourne has consistently shown he needs a weapon to down his peers
C) Boyka has proven that even his shattered knee is > a fighter's legs, Bourne isn't snapping shit
D) Boyka would fail in Bourne's shoes because he's not an operative, but he is Bourne's superior in pure H2H
You have to stop spouting this 30 million dollar crap, it doesn't mean anything. All that matters are screen feats, not training. Luke Skywalker had almost no training and he wrecked the chosen one who had 30+ years of training and experience. I'd like you to back up your claims that Bourne's opponents are more impressive with feats, because I saw what Dolor could do, I didn't much from Bourne's adversaries.
No, you don't see them used in MMA fights because they're so hard to do. The fact that Boyka does them causally speaks for his skill.
Oh wow, Bourne tears apart featless super-assassins who fight like shit on screen? Color me impressed. It's all hype and buzzwords, what matters are on-screen feats and based on them Boyka roflstomps Bourne in pure H2H. Logic dictates that a super-assassin would be a better fighter than 12-year-old girl.
Super-assassin, when already talking about Super-Assassin's, is pretty vague dude.
Regardless, if he was talking about Bourne, then yeah, that was wrong, Bourne is nothing short of spectacular as a fighter, even if I do still think that Boyka would win.
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Nov 4th, 2014 11:01 AM
Thanks Scribble!
