I'm tired of his behavior. He is like some bizarre evil beast that only appears at random to terrorize people. I've had enough of it damn you Tempest, why don't you go to 4chan and post Palpatine JPEGS there you cretinous fiend
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
BTW, I can't actually recall the exact quote about the B-team being among the best duelists ever. Wasn't that just Mace's opinion or was it actually from a sourcebook?
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
"Most of the Jedi are deployed on distant worlds, but Mace manages to assemble a trio of celebrated swordmasters to assist him in arresting Palpatine: Agen Kolar, a Zabrak known among the Jedi to strike first and ask questions later; Saesee Tiin, a solitary Iktotchi who has never chosen a Padawan learner; and Kit Fisto, Nautolan master of Form 1 lightsaber technique, who distinguished himself on Geonosis and Mon Calamari, and who partnered Mace in battling Grievous on Coruscant."
--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
"Forget not the existence of Sidious. Anticipate your action, he may. Masters will be necessary, if the Lord of the Sith you must face."
"I have chosen four of our best. Master Tiin, Master Kolar, and Master Fisto are all here, in the Temple. They are preparing already."
"What about Skywalker? The chosen one."
"Too much of a risk," Mace replied. "I am the fourth."
--RoTS Novel
"She stepped aside, allowing him to the pad; she had no reason to keep him here against his will. He punched the code hungrily. "If Palpatine retaliates," she said reasonably, "is not your place here, to help with our defense?"
"I'm the chosen one. My place is there." His breathing roughened, and he looked as if he was getting even sicker. "I have to be there. That's the prophecy, isn't it? I have to be there—"
"Anakin, why? The Masters are the best of the Order. What can you possibly do?"
--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
I'm positive there's a quote from the Kenobi novel that states they are the greatest swordbeing produced by the order or something along those lines.
I'll get into more detail later, but the fact remains, there is nothing vague about being termed "one of the best in history." In fact, you can't get any more straightforward than that. As far as how many jedi hold the title of being one of the best in history is irrelevant. Fact is, holding such a title separates a jedi from the vast majority of jedi that history has seen, which is pretty outstanding in itself. To be one of the best in history, is, well, being one of the best in history. Arguing against that fact, is silly.
Basically, it's impossible to be one of the greatest duelist in history, but actually be only a bit above average at the same time. To imply that is simply illogical and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Fated, you're putting words in my mouth. To be one of the greatest jedi in an order that both GL and Luke Skywalker confirm as the jedi in it's prime, would put them above most (not all) by default, considering that achieving such a status in such an era would be more complicated than achieving it in any other era. Not to mention they are constantly referred to as some of the best in history. You disagreeing with it, is disagreeing with facts and logic.
Just so you know, when I get to your post, I'll be using your own logic and arguments against you.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
"One of the best ever" can mean like the 178th best out of the 10,000 Jedi ever. It's not that impressive in comparison to the people we typically debate.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Dude, I'm not saying it's a shit quote or that Kolar is average. He's clearly outstanding. Average compared to the other characters we discuss on this board is still a phenomenally skilled duelist. I'm only arguing that the accolade hardly shits on other quotes that indicate outstanding skill or implies superiority over other top duelists. He can still be one of the best ever and not be vastly better than Darach and Zallow or whatever.
But I mean, from what I can tell the actual quote we're talking about is just Kenobi's opinion so it's kind of irrelevant.
Again we come back to my previous point, Cin Drallig, he is celebrated and highly praised, does that mean he is match for Kun, Malak or Satele shan herself? In the their prime era, 200 jedi were no match for battle droids
That's not me lowballing every one knows that's a fact. As I stated before, It's great that Saesee Tiin has those accolades, but what else does Tiin have that would make him a challenge to other great warriors? His Tk yeah, impressive. Dueling wise? A bunch of quotes. That's not to say he'll be easily dismissed by people like Rosh Penin or Coleman Trebor, but to say that he is on the same level as Mace and Fisto is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
Except several members acknowledged them as such, not just Kenobi. In-universe hype only matters when you want them to, right? You, know, such as Kasim. This is what I mean about you and double standards. You constantly apply them then throw a tantrum when I call you out on them.
And, no, they are different. Fancy terms that imply skill are not as straightforward as being considered one of history's greatest. In terms of strict accolades, yes, being considered one of the greatest is far better than a fancy description that implies a great deal of skill, as being one of the greatest ever actually separates a jedi from the vast majority of jedi in history. Being highly skilled can be applied to a jedi who doesn't even approach being one of the best ever. Hell, Ahsoka has some fancy quotes which imply great skill, but it doesn't make her one of the greatest ever.
The logic your using here is as bad as suggesting the wrath is as skilled and as powerful as Maul based on some implications of skill and power.
I don't recall him being termed as one of the orders greatest, but in terms of technical skill, sure.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you said Sateles accolades hold more merit than Tiin's, which is false. Now if you want to prove her superiority using feats, that's fine, but, TBH, Tiin has some incredible force feats as you're now admitting, on top of being confirmed as one of the greatest duelists of his time (jedi in it's prime). Tiin's status isn't pretty much established, not just mere implications.
Just out of curiosity, what puts Satele ahead of him in overall combat? I may agree that she is, but I want you to prove it. Remember more feats doesn't mean better feats, or else Ahsoka beats them all. If you bring up dueling feats, then you must indicate why those dueling feats would put her on par with one of the greatest in history; for example you need to establish where her opponents rank in skill, otherwise how do we determine how good of a dueling feat it is?
I meant to write more, but I'm tired, and much rather see you prove that Satele can beat Tiin.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
I was basing that off the Hype he got from Dooku and some guide from the ROTS game.
Yet.. the wrath has quotes calling him powerful.. what makes him any different from Saesee tiin?
I was comparing the two quotes, one established Tiin as a celebrated swordsmen, the other praised Satele to a very great degree, I found Satele's accolade to be much more impressive though.
alright, here's just a short list.
Her TK has brought down an entire mountain top.
Her force waves were enough to send force users flying
She could hold her opponent in place with a mere look
and she effortlessly broke a blast door with a mere touch whilst using shatterpoint.
Tiin's Telekinetic prowess is impressive, yet Satele's is even more so as her destructive potential will TK is much more potent than Tiin's own.
Are...are you training me?
Um, Her feats imply great power and her accolades are there to prove it. for example:
Her force powers - even while she was a grandmaster were described as prodigious:
The Grand Master possessed prodigious Force powers
--Fatal Alliance
With a mere gesture she could utterly destroy Hex droids(sort of reminiscent of Mace's feat on Dantooine imo)
" A gesture crushed hexes into balls or blew them apart from the inside. A look stilled them in mid-lunge while Ax rushed in to finish them off."
-- Fatal Alliance
As for the combat prowess:
Satele fought with Darth Malgus an already powerful sith lord one who(if you'll allow me to use quotes) as quote:
"Even before the Great War, Malgus was widely regarded as one of the greatest warriors in the Sith Empire."
--- The Old Republic encyclopedia
His strength was great, he was able to send the jedi knight, Aryn Leneer flying by ten meters with a force augmented, drove the Jedi Knight to her knees and sent shivers through her(Aryn Lenner) arms. Satele fought him and though she was overwhelmed, she was able to hold his powerful strikes with one hand while she used the environment to her advantage. Malgus at this point had defeated Ven Zallow and Kao Cen Darach Satele's master and a Powerful Jedi master
Saesee Tiin has neither the speed feats nor the raw and deadly brute force of Malgus that gave Satele trouble
He was also marked a priority threat due to his skill.
He was also noted as the Temple's finest swordmaster during Operation Knightfall, which would also put him above the likes of Shaak Ti.
If it helps, he was also noted by Dooku as being one to being able to fight Grevious.
So it's safe to say that Cin has enough on him, to being regarded as one of the Jedi Order's top swordsman.
A shame that we never seen him in action, aside from the ROTS video game, when Cin and Anakin fought.
Man......I really wish that fight was canon, really wish it happened because it was awesome and really showed Cin's skill. He has quite the accolades/character statements and the like on him though.
Last edited by Zenwolf on Nov 17th, 2014 at 04:12 AM
Nov 16th, 2014 09:27 PM
