Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Classic Beyonder is millions of times more powerful than the one and only LT there's ever been.
The prime Multiverse is already "infinite" ... yet Beyonder was ridiculous times bigger than that "infinity,"
in scale and power.
Any other "multiverse" in Marvel is meaningless concerning cosmic scale power,
since well ... there is none.
Literally, there is no other Eternity or Infinity or cosmic hierarchy or Franklin copies,
or anything note worthy of any kind cosmically speaking in any other multiverse.
The only other realm of any consequence is the Post-retcon Beyond Realm,
which is basically what the old one used to be but now with an entire race of BeyonderS inside it.
All that matters is the prime Multiverse in terms of cosmic power aside from the Beyond Realm.
These days there are infinite multiverses within the Marvel omniverse: (please log in to view the image)
And LT exists in, and acts as the judge of, all multiverses simultaneously: (please log in to view the image)
Yes, Beyonder was certainly millions of times more powerful than the multiversal LT of 1985, but LT's scope/range of power has grown, well, by an infinite, infinitude since then. Not saying he would defeat Beyonder, but I definitely understand where the others are coming from.
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
to be clear--i'm not saying that lt DOESN'T have more....range nowadays. just that authority and power seem to be, invalidly, being conflated here. i for one would love to see some proof of lt's 'increased power'. it makes no sense imo to assume just because he has more area to cover that he suddenly possesses more 'personal power'. it could (and without proof likely SHOULD) simply imply he has more AUTHORITY over a greater area.
In 1985, LT existed in, and judged, one multiverse. Nowadays, he exists in, and judges, infinite multiverseS simultaneously.
Point: where scope/range is concerned, the LT of today is FAR beyond the LT of then--omniversal compared to multiversal. That said, does an infinite increase in scope/range mean he received an infinite increase in raw power by proxy? Maybe, maybe not. However, I think the opinion that he may have is a logical one. /shrug
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 18th, 2014 at 02:19 AM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
... I agree that Marvel has more space outside the prime Multiverse,
it's just that I've come to realize it's inconsequential space.
I agree.
Fair enuff. I disagree with that opinion, but,
if there had been other Eternities/Infinities/cosmics/etc in other multiverses I would have agreed with you.
Don't get me wrong, I agree the LT is "omniversal" ... (I suppose)
although it's strange cause I've never seen the LT in another multiverse,
the "D of M" is outside Eternity yet intrinsically tied to him,
and iirc the LT can't even judge something from another multiverse if it enters the prime multiverse.
Like the Starbrand, like Rune, etc. Which is a huge wtf in my book.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
not really. authority only has a limited conflation with power, and it's inconsistent. what authority did molecule man have? what 'range'? what about wyncham? no 'range' to speak of. even thanos with the ig had a tiny'range' compared to lt but his power approached lt's own. these are just off the top of my head and i've no doubt you and others can come up with better examples. i am surprised that so many willingly ascribe to such a fallacious equation. using that logic, roma should be the most uber of all in the omniverse. there is no reason at all to suppose that lt increased in personal power, nor that he needed to.
personally i don't very much care about the issue, and it MAY be that we CAN somehow, arbitrarily grant lt more power, but i'd be willing to wager that in terms of the 'marvel comic reality' lt is and would be considered the same now as he was then. you, and others, as readers, have granted him greater power based on this 'outside' perspective you have as a reader. that's not a perspective the characters themselves have, nor should it be assumed that said outside perspective would impact the comic book world. it bears repeating: there is absolutely zero on panel proof to suggest lt has somehow received this accredited 'amp'. the logic you cite isn't enough imo to come to that conclusion. at all.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
well, there's that old kubik scan that indicated even YEARS back that lt oversaw multiverses, but i agree with your premise. like i said--it MAY be that we can suppose lt has been amped somehow, but i think it equally logical imo to believe he has remained exactly the same in terms of personal power.
but let's suppose for a moment he IS amped? as you said, by how much? i guess i just don't see the need to say he's more powerful, nor of course do i see the proof of his increased power. imo he's the same now as he was then but i don't think it's an issue that can be objectively proven. shrug
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
^^ Nice points Leo.
I also just realized something friends: The LT has no judgemental cases outside Eternity/Infinity imo.
If there is no cosmic hierarchy, and no cosmic scale powers in other multiverses,
why would the LT even need to survey these realms?
The LT's purpose is to address an imbalance of cosmic power,
but, any of us would be hard pressed to find a galaxy buster from another multiverse.
Heck, even the Starbrand (in its prime) was but global in the New Universe.
(and that was the uber power of that entire multiverse)
One other thing,
the LT plays in other multiverseS according to one writer, Kaminski,
while the rest of Marvel writers including the Head handbook writer Jeff Christiansen state
that the LT is solely attached to the prime Multiverse.
It's almost as though yes, there are other realities outside the prime multiverse,
but it seems they're like in a world of their own.
Yet, I've seen the LT mention an omniversal constant and even Galactus,
so it just doesn't make sense.
Then we have the scenario with the BrotherS,
which after close examination in this thread I came to the conclusion
they make no sense as sole Marvel megaverses. They make no sense period.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Dec 18th, 2014 at 04:32 AM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
I'm serious friends, after years of going one way, I've been considering for some time
that these terms are interchangable (omniverse and multiverse) but not always.
The funny thing is that to me the term "megaverse" is the odd ball out.
Because for Marvel,
it should be either or (omniverse/megaverse) same meaning imo = all universes pertaining to said company.
But better yet, Marvel should stop using the term "omniverse" cause that confuses shit,
they should stick to "megaverse" to represent them entirely,
and leave "omniverse" as everything including other companies. (as it was meant ot be)
Kinda strange, I'm enjoying this discussion now. Thankfully true debators joined the dialogue.
What is this? Some kind of parade when you can't make your own arguments? Are you that much of chicken? Lets tear your whole argument apart, shall we?
1) You said that Adv. of X-men 12 retconned DC vs Marvel.
Totally false.
2)Then you flip-flopped and said that it only changed their status and not their history.
Again false.
3)Then you again flip-flopped and said that the brothers were still personification of DC/Marvel yet LT/Spectre's "*****".
I asked you to provide the proof when I know you don't have any. Now you're parading your "cheerleaders" and accusing me of making fallacies?
Laughable. Be a man and do your own work. And don't flip-flop ten times in two pages.
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At least you succeeded to hammer some reason in his thick skull ^^.
Dec 17th, 2014 10:41 PM
... awhh, thanx a mill BW.
