@galan&Leo, This is like most threads about opinions, I gave mine, nothing more nothing less, I don't think that my opinion is a fact or the ultimate truth, thankfully I am not that pretentious yet, but I am glad that someone at least gave my reasoning a chance.
@discussion, In my opinion. LT during Marvels Multiverse time, was the judge of that Multiverse, his greatest judgement was the Supernova IIRC and he was "repelled" by an alternate Reed Richards IIRC. His power as a Multiversal judge however was supposed to be ehm, Multiversal. Later however, when Marvel became a Omniverse/Megaverse, he held two Megaverses in his hands, represented by the two Marvel Brothers, and even denied them their conflict for now, even though they were supposed to be Megaversal. This implies that he was more powerful than two Megaversal beings. If he is more powerful now than earlier will be seen once we know who killed him.
DC has it's own Omniverse, as oxmoronic as this might sound, Superman didn't save the Marvel U and all other companies by vibrating in his comic back then^^. So the DC Omniverse exists apart from the Marvel Ominverse. Also the DC Universe Brother never appeared in a Marvel exclusive comic nor did the Spectre.
That is just my stance^^.
What I have seen as annoying was the cherrypicking of quotes and words, like "all of time (+WOW)" but then ignoring Omniverse and other stuff. That is not debating, that is twisting selected quotes and scans, accompanied by extremly subjective wall of text, in order to force tis subjective opinion upon others like it is a fact. Just saiyan.
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... poor scorned child.
... This thread was picking up interest ... why'd you have to return?
I could care less if idiots wanna play games, if they're real, nice,
if not, my pet iguana farts, same relevance.
As for "fallacies" .. yes, you are the forum's clown.
You get owned daily, and your reputation as an intransigent bafoon has tainted our forum.
Yea, yea, this is what you're well known for: That is ... wasting serious debator's time.
I remember I tried to debate with you once before regarding Thor Corps mini #1-4,
when you lied back to back, like arranging random scans in order to fit your fallacies.
You tried to push the idea that one has to control the concept of "Time"
in order to open a Dimensional portal to another time-period. (false)
You were unequivocally wrong! I proved it, but you persisted and were proven wrong repeatedly,
yet you could not stop yourself from continuing on with the bull .
** So, you picked the wrong fight son.
Stick to attacking me personally,
at-least that's just an empty meanngless shit-filled opinion
I can't dismantle with scanned proof like everything else you post concerning Marvel.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Dec 18th, 2014 at 02:55 PM
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^^ Yea, might as well troll.
Leo doesn't agree that the LT grew in power.
There is no on panel or handbook evidence of any kind that sugests this either.
Which was all of canon Marvel at the time. So, LT was the judge of everything.
Beyond Realm was disconnected.
Btw. Does anyone have proof of the LT judging anything in another multiverse?
But we do have evidence that the LT (even if he's more powerful than) CAN'T judge something from another multiverse:
eg. Starbrand and Rune.
Which is nonsense. That 1982 "What If" story really pissed on itself.
Anyway, the LT ripped Korvac's entire universe from the multiverse by encasing it in an impenetrable barrier.
That's at-least pure universal manipulation for ya,
but yet, LT decides to use a puny sun against a guy who absorbed Celestials and cosmics?
Instead of his own personal at-least universal manipulating power.
Dumb shit.
PIS, which has never been reference in any handbook that I know of.
That aside, Reed never did anything directly to the LT.
The LT & Cosmics merged their powers into a ball of energy,
then Reed shot his Galactus killing canon into the concentrated ball of energy,
this then cause a feedback bfring LT and cosmics.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Dec 18th, 2014 at 03:28 PM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
To this day, I've never seen the LT called anything other than the "Multiversal Judge."
There is nothing of significance for the LT to judge in other multiverses.
Actually, that scene with the Brothers is a representation of DC and Marvel.
Brothers were never two Marvel megaverses. I'm 100% confident in that fact nowadays.
In fact, up until the 2007 bios, Marvel (officially) was a single Megaverse,
so, unless the LT held two Marvel companies in his hand, it makes no sense.
Still puts him above all of Marvel though, so we can agree on that.
We agree, Supes did nothing for Marvel, just like Wanda didn't re-creat DC.
Which is why I stated earlier that using the term "omniverse" confuses shit.
and both companies should just use "megaverse" to represent their entirety.
As far as the story "Adv. of the X-Men" is concerned,
there is no doubt that was the original plot of the story,
which was, DC Brother and Spectre were involved in that one scenario.
Imo though, it was completely pointless to add that to the story.
I still can't grasp what DC's Mike Carlin was trying to achieve here.
Your other points while mostly wrong were on topic.
This on the other hand is gibberish.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Dec 18th, 2014 at 03:25 PM
I get your point, and even though i think that the Sheriff analogy is inapplicable to LT's - and any cosmic character's - case, consider this: Do you honestly believe that the LT who was exhibiting megaversal-level powers in the late 90s is on the same level as the one who was struggling against Nebulos pre-SW2?
Just saying.
Also, you're looking for an official statement regarding LT's amp. But that's not how things always work in comics. Silver Age Spectre never got any official amp from his Golden Age days. Yet, anyone who actually read those eras, would tell you that there is a significant difference between their respective power-levels. Same thing goes to Mangog, Ion, etc...The amp doesn't have to be stated. As long as it's observable, it can be applied. You get my point?
I already said this to you in the other thread, not sure if you read it. Asteroth outright mentioned that she was going to destroy "all megaverses" in 2005, implying that there are multiple megaverses in Marvel (along with the LT instance). While the omniverse has never been used in plural not does it make any sense to.
So yeah, omniverse > megaverse > multiverse (Within Marvel comics).
And you're confusing the terms based on the context in which it's being used.
From a broader perspective, the term "omniverse" means all fiction and all possible universes, while a megaverse becomes the collection of all universes/multiverses in a certain company (like Marvel). And that's why the term "megaverse" is defined as such in the handbooks, because it's defined from a broader perspective which considers all of fiction as an omniverse and Marvel is just a part of it, that's why Marvel is regarded as being a megaverse only.
From a narrower perspective (When the terms are used within Marvel comics), the term "omniverse" does equate to all universes/multiverses/megaverses within Marvel, while a megaverse equated to multiple multiverses like you have been saying previously.
Last edited by operator616 on Dec 18th, 2014 at 03:31 PM
Yet he held two Marvel Megaverses in his hand and even had power of the two Marvel Megaverse-Guardian-Brothers.
That is your opinion but I disagree to 100%. Marvel didn't dare to include Spectre in their comic, neither drawn nor by direct name, they had no right to use DC or make it a Megaverse. They simply can't use DC in their books, neither chars nor Universes. So it isn't DC, simple as that. Thoe Megaverses represent Marvel and if the totality of Marvel is in one of those two Megaverses, the other one is still a part of the Marvel Ominiverse but no other company. Marvel can dream about being able to have the right to dictate whatr other companies are, but this is just arrogant and meaningless and everything but official or a true.
Till we learn what killed him.
But they don't. DC sees itself as an Omniverse and that is what it officially is, an DC Omniverse, where Marvel isn't represented except by rip offs or homages. The same is true for Marvel.
No other opinion on this should matter, only the official stance of the companies and if they differ, you take for canon what the company says about itself not about others. That is in my eyes the most logical stance.
Adv. of the X-Men is still a Marvel exclusive book without DCs consens, i mean the company, nor it's logo. Spectre never appeared there nor did DCs Brother or the DC Verse. That is purely your opinion, but to each his own I guess.
It is not about agreeing, they both see the reasoning behind my stance and understand it. You don't have to agree in order to still be able to see the point of view of others just by giving it a chance. There is nothing bad with disagreeing btw, nor with having differen't opinions but once people try to force their opinion upon others, without seeing the possibility of those other opinions being duh possible too, it starts to get ugly.
And everything was smaller than it is now.
Yes, the proof is in his hand, two Megeverses (multiple Multiverses) where he let's those Marvel Brothers wait for their show. If that is not a judgement or display of power over those Megaverses...
PIS or not it happened. Later he had no problem with handling Megaversal abstracts...
But we are again in a field of opinions, so to each his own.
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The last hierarchy you posted(from the Thanos Annual) is very inaccurate, imo... Odin, Zeus, and Kronos in the same tier as the multiversal Celestials? No way.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 18th, 2014 at 04:10 PM
this is what i mean with cherrypicking btw. Now you decide that the Marvel writers confuse things but you let it slip if other writers use something similar to things they can't use. See the guy as a rouge writer and not a representation of DC then
It is always an infinite long way from some on panel Universes to an infinite number of Universes/Multiverses and Megaverses. Just sayin.
Edit: I though I am on ignore?
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Fair enuff.
Yet, LT can't enact judgement on anything from another multiverse. Like Starbrand, like Rune.
But anyway, can you name a single thing in another multiverse that's relevant cosmically speaking?
Personally, the most powerful person/thing I found was the Starbrand.
Starbrand was a global power in the New Universe,
and it was the most powerful object in the entire Multiverse that contains that universe.
I'd also like to see the LT in another "multiverse" too.
Sure, believe that if you want. i cited an on-panel instance, whether you dismiss it or acknowledge it is your own business. Nothing more i can say regarding the matter. Though i also did say why megaverses being mentioned on panel within Marvel comics does fit together, which is why i don't believe the writer being rogue.
It wasn't used in plural. It said "omniversal planes". Which means different levels of reality on an omniversal scale.
Pretty sure it's more than 3. But the fact that we've actually seen other multiverses + references of the existence of infinite multiverses (on panel and in letter pages) should be proof enough.
Come to think of it, how many alternate realities have we seen? a 1000? That's a long, long way from infinite realities. Yet i don't see you arguing that there aren't infinite realities in Marvel.
And the reason we don't see that many other multiverses because Marvel comics' mainstream multiverse is the one containing 616, that's where most of the stories are centered.
Last edited by operator616 on Dec 18th, 2014 at 04:29 PM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Unfortunately for your point, Mike Carlin, the guy who helped write "Adv. of the X-Men," isn't just some writer (rogue or not)
he was actually the Excutive Editor of DC ... you know, the guy in charge.
Terrible insults as always old man.
To own you as always.
Reported for bashing. Nice tantrum though.
Nice to know you have nothing after getting owned, so you are farting around like an old man. And asking other "posters" to cheer your argument up.
Where you ran away as always? Just like here? Oh you are so cute when you rage like this.
So now when you can't have any argument in this topic, you try to steer away with an argument of a thread over six months ago? Why Master, who is the chump?
Which is still a rouge if he tries to implement something from DC. He can't do this without DCs consent, as he is not DC, that is why DC logo is missing, Spectre never appeares there and this Brother and this Megaverse is still not DC. Easy enough.
You did, in LTs hand. You saw two and since it can't be DC as DC is according to it's own books a Omniverse this certainly wasn't the DC verse (just a second Marvel Megaverse).
I just tell the truth. You can play the same tone as often as you want, it will never make it a fact and i will still disagree.
Edit: good way to ignore every other point I countered. I guess we agree there.
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Last edited by Prof. T.C McAbe on Dec 18th, 2014 at 04:36 PM
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Cool, so we understand each other.
I disgaree.
Fair enuff.
I've only seen 3 personally.
And the most powerful thing across one of those mutliverses was a global power.
Yea well, we haven't been here for an infintie amount of time, so wait for it.
Also, I'm being funny, but the idea relates more to the alternate realities than multiverseS.
That, and the fact that there are no Eternities/Infinites or Cosmic powers in any other multiverse.
This is the major reason why we'll probably Never see the LT in another multiverse.
Heck, even Kaminiski (who's the only writer fitting LT into a multi-Multiversal arena in the FF Annual)
had Kubik/Kosmos journey all of Marvel,
and interestingly enough, it was the Multiverse and the Beyond Realm.
Again, aside from the mysterious BeyonderS in their super huge realm, everything else outside is inconsequential.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 18th, 2014 02:38 PM
... poor scorned child.
... This thread was picking up interest ... why'd you have to return?
You tried to push the idea that one has to control the concept of "Time" 
.
