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Little Mac vs. Heihachi Mishima
Started by: Bro SMASH

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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Is English your second language? If not, pay more attention at what you type, because what you just said is nearly indecipherable.


You know you could have asked in a much nicer way instead of being childish about it.

quote:
He beat Kazuya. Devil Kazuya, in fact.


And Kazuya also beat him...so did Jin and Lars.

quote:
Oh yeah? To what degree? Can you prove that he is as strong as Heihachi?

That's a rhetorical question. I already know Heihachi and Tekken characters in general are much stronger.


Heihachi has never tore down any buildings with his fists and Little Mac has beaten somebody who has.

quote:
More than two, considering we see at least two thrown before he is done. Probably much more, considering how little damage those two punches did to the wall of that building.

Watch your video. He's made a hole shorter and a little wider than him in a brick wall. Keep in mind that the wall is only two or three inches thick, so it's not very solid. He did this with at the bare minimum two punches.

Heihachi devastated the larger and more durable JACKS with single attacks. He hits much harder.



I think you're the one who needs to watch the video. He didn't just make a hole. The whole place was cracking up, despite him only being in one spot. I don't see any reason to believe it's not solid.

quote:
Telekinetically destroys a motorcycle.

He also destroyed a forest.

"But wait, that's Devil Jin, not Kazuya!"

Devil Jin only possesses half of the Devil in him that Kazuya did in Tekken 2. You know, when Heihachi killed him in single combat.


Neither Mac or Heihachi has telekinesis and it's not like you showed Devil using it on Heihachi so that's pointless.

quote:
lol

Steel is more durable than light brickwork like what Mr. Sandman destroyed.


Like you can really prove that was light brickwork.

quote:
Prove this statement. I have provided direct evidence of Tekken characters devastating the area around them with their clashes, as well as direct evidence of Tekken characters moving as fast or faster than bullets.

Yet you would claim they have less impact than explosions (which is a vague description by the way, Heihachi and friends certainly punch harder than hand grenades), and punch and dodge more slowly than bullets?

Provide evidence to this claim or shut up. I have grown weary of you my son.


Pay attention. All you did was show the impact of their punches, which doesn't prove that they're same as the explosion the JACKS made. You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets. And once again, nobody is using bullets in this fight so that's irrelevant.

quote:
Provide solid evidence or reasoning to come to the conclusion that superhuman durability and speed are not relevant in a fight.


Because it either involved dodging bullets or taking an explosion, none which has anything to do with a fist fight.

quote:
Once again,

You can't. Just give up. You made a bad thread and are desperately trying to argue that this in some way resembles a fight. It's embarrassing, no one buys it, Little Mac is stomped. Deal with it. thumb up

Oh, and I've supported my side of the argument with much more evidence than you have. smile


Posting a bunch irrelevant information while brushing everything I tell you is not supporting anything with any evidence.

quote:
Provide proof that Mac could even come close to replicating this feat.


Right after you show me Little Mac busting through a building.

quote:
Yes, Heihachi being able to fight with and take hits from people who hit much harder than Mac means that Heihachi would take Mac's fist to the jaw with a smile to his face. Which wouldn't happen unless Heihachi wanted it to, mind you. Heihachi is so much faster than Mac he isn't being hit unless he wants to be.

Also, you're using a logical fallacy. Specifically the fallacy of the undistributed middle.

"All characters who have hurt/beaten Heihachi have super strength."
"Little Mac has super strength."
"Therefore, Little Mac can hurt/beat Heihachi."

It ignores the possibility (not possibility really, more like certainty) that the super strong Tekken characters are, gasp, stronger than Little Mac. They are, by their feats and general portrayals.


Oh but for some reason, I'm suppose to believe that Heihachi is so super strong that he's suppose to punch through Little Mac's chest when Mac's fought someone who's just as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi? Or that Heihachi won't flinch at punches from a guy who's knocked out opponents far bigger and heavier than Heihachi (and himself)? Heihachi has never taken those kind of punches and yet, you think they for some reason won't hurt him at all? Maybe it's you who needs to start using logic.


You think you're slick but you keep dancing around the point I'm making about the bullets or explosions, which are not the same as punches (again). Not once have Heihachi taken punches that do the same damage as them.


quote:
I'm afraid not. I won this debate the moment you dared challenge me. I'll allow you another response or two, but unless you actually start using logic in your argument or provide some evidence I'm going to have to add this thread to my long list of victories.


You know, it would have been much easier to say "I quit because I got nothing to prove that this would be a stomp like I want it to be". You know? Just man up!


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Last edited by Bro SMASH on Dec 14th, 2014 at 08:28 AM

Old Post Dec 14th, 2014 08:16 AM
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Wei Phoenix
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I just want to say that if someone can tank an explosion to the face then someone's punches who can't replicate that force isn't going to do anything to him. Multiple bombs went off in his face, but we're wondering if someone's fists can knock him out?


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Old Post Dec 14th, 2014 12:07 PM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I just want to say that if someone can tank an explosion to the face then someone's punches who can't replicate that force isn't going to do anything to him. Multiple bombs went off in his face, but we're wondering if someone's fists can knock him out?


Punches aren't going to replicate that same kind of force anyway and he lost to guys who clearly don't throw with that kind of force in a fight.


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Old Post Dec 14th, 2014 02:40 PM
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Wei Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Punches aren't going to replicate that same kind of force anyway and he lost to guys who clearly don't throw with that kind of force in a fight.


He's lost to guys like Jin, Kazuya, and Lars? People who's shockwaves have destroyed structures. Heihachi himself crushes JACKs and shatters steel. He tanked explosions to the face. He trained a bear that was able to beat Paul. He's reacted to point blank shots, he has super human durability. The people he fought has super human strength.


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Old Post Dec 14th, 2014 03:14 PM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
He's lost to guys like Jin, Kazuya, and Lars? People who's shockwaves have destroyed structures. Heihachi himself crushes JACKs and shatters steel. He tanked explosions to the face. He trained a bear that was able to beat Paul. He's reacted to point blank shots, he has super human durability. The people he fought has super human strength.


Fighting people with super strength and durable? Well, Little Mac has done that too. He's beaten Mr. Sandman (who can tear through a building with his fists), Bald Bull (who can take bull charges), and Don Flamenco (who can knock away bulls).

Again, explosions are not punches so that's irrelevant.


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Old Post Dec 14th, 2014 09:50 PM
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Wei Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Fighting people with super strength and durable? Well, Little Mac has done that too. He's beaten Mr. Sandman (who can tear through a building with his fists), Bald Bull (who can take bull charges), and Don Flamenco (who can knock away bulls).

Again, explosions are not punches so that's irrelevant.


Explosive force is greater than blunt force. Taking a charging bull is nothing compared to taking someone who's punches causes shockwaves or someone that can punch through steel. Heihachi and practically every Tekken character would pulverize a bull's head, it would be paste with a light punch.

Also does anyone know if Blood Vengeance is canon to the Tekken lore or not?


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Old Post Dec 14th, 2014 10:19 PM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Explosive force is greater than blunt force. Taking a charging bull is nothing compared to taking someone who's punches causes shockwaves or someone that can punch through steel. Heihachi and practically every Tekken character would pulverize a bull's head, it would be paste with a light punch.


They really wouldn't do any better than Don. Causing shockwaves? Sometimes, you gotta wonder if that's just an exaggeration because that stuff already flying when Kazuya and Jin threw their punches.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
[B]Also does anyone know if Blood Vengeance is canon to the Tekken lore or not?


Blood Vengeance isn't canon. Harada implied this on his twitter account.


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Last edited by Bro SMASH on Dec 14th, 2014 at 10:57 PM

Old Post Dec 14th, 2014 10:54 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
You know you could have asked in a much nicer way instead of being childish about it.


So what did you mean to say?

quote:
And Kazuya also beat him...so did Jin and Lars.


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Irrelevant. Just because they've beaten him doesn't imply Mac can. Heihachi has also beaten Kazuya (when Kazuya was in his prime no less), killing him in the process. They are all among the strongest fighters in Tekken. Any of them would kill Mac with a single punch. thumb up

quote:
Heihachi has never tore down any buildings with his fists and Little Mac has beaten somebody who has.


Whereas Heihachi has beaten someone who can tear buildings down with a single punch (that isn't aimed at the building) and destroy forests. thumb up

Both feats are above breaking a small brick building with a flurry of punches.

quote:
I think you're the one who needs to watch the video. He didn't just make a hole. The whole place was cracking up, despite him only being in one spot.


You can't prove that he stayed still. It's an assumption. thumb up

But it's fair to point out that the building was cracking. Who cares though?

I've already shown that Tekken characters can both crack and destroy the areas around them without directly attacking it.

With at the bare minimum two punches Mr. Sandman broke a hole in the wall that was smaller in volume (if you don't know what volume is, google it) than a single JACK.

quote:
I don't see any reason to believe it's not solid.


Buildings are hollow. Were you unaware of this? Did you believe buildings were completely filled in?

quote:
Neither Mac or Heihachi has telekinesis


True, which is part of why Little Mac is so much less threatening an opponent than one of the Devils. He's also much weaker, slower, and more fragile.

So why do you think he can challenge Heihachi again?

quote:
and it's not like you showed Devil using it on Heihachi so that's pointless.


Now you're moving the goalposts. You wanted to know how powerful Devil is. I showed you.

"Oh but neither Heihachi nor Mac have telekinesis and you didn't show them using it on Heihachi-"

But Little Mac isn't a building, why can you apply Mr. Sandman punching a building against Mac? < --------- This is you.

Also, I could ask you to prove that Mac has ever been hit by one of Mr Sandman's punches in canon, or that Sandman was punching that hard in the fight. smile

But the point is that Heihachi has beaten opponents who are capable of far more than any Mac has beaten.

Which is the same train of logic you tried to use by bringing up Mr. Sandman's feat. "Tried" being the key word here. You failed to do so effectively because you were ignorant of the fact that Sandman's feat was woefully inferior to the feats of the Tekken characters.

quote:
Like you can really prove that was light brickwork.


Each individual brick was smaller than his fist. It was light brickwork.

quote:
Pay attention. All you did was show the impact of their punches, which doesn't prove that they're same as the explosion the JACKS made.


I didn't say they were. I just said they were far superior than the impact of Mac's or Mr. Sandman's punches. Try to keep up.

quote:
You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets.


So you concede that they can move as fast as bullets?

If one of them moves as fast as a bullet with their fists, what are they doing Bro Smash?

quote:
And once again, nobody is using bullets in this fight so that's irrelevant.


Which is a shame really. If you gave Little Mac a gun he would have a better chance.

Slightly. Heihachi would still win.

Why do you believe it doesn't matter that Heihachi is fast enough to dodge or block bullets? Why do you believe reaction-time isn't important in a fight?

quote:
Because it either involved dodging bullets or taking an explosion, none which has anything to do with a fist fight.


Why can Heihachi dodge a bullet, but not dodge Mac's much slower punch?

Why can Heihachi survive a massive explosion, but be knocked out by Mac's much weaker punch?

quote:
Posting a bunch irrelevant information while brushing everything I tell you is not supporting anything with any evidence.


I've posted speed feats, durability feats, and strength feats for Heihachi and characters around or below Heihachi's level.

You've posted a single punching strength feat for Mr. Sandman. One that is inferior to many of the various strength feats in Tekken.

quote:
Right after you show me Little Mac busting through a building.


Little Mac hasn't. Mr. Sandman has. With a flurry of punches. Heihachi and friends have done similar with one. That wasn't aimed at the building.

How are you not getting this? Is it intellectual dishonesty, or are you legitimately having trouble comprehending something so basic?

quote:
Oh but for some reason, I'm suppose to believe that Heihachi is so super strong that he's suppose to punch through Little Mac's chest when Mac's fought someone who's just as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi?


Mr. Sandman is considerably weaker than Heihachi.

In fact, let's look at the first punch he threw at that wall. It could only dislodge some bricks from the wall, making a hole somewhat bigger than his fist.

Wow man. This guy's a ****ing powerhouse. He can definitely take on a guy who tears through reinforced steel with his fists and fights guys that can toss tank turrets around. That was sarcasm by the way. I don't feel like I should have to say that, but you might legitimately think I was being serious.

I do like how you're sheepishly avoiding acknowledging Bryan Fury by the way. Bryan Fury who has never been implied to have come close to winning the King of the Iron Fists tournament, like Paul, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi have.

quote:
Or that Heihachi won't flinch at punches from a guy who's knocked out opponents far bigger and heavier than Heihachi (and himself)?


Why should anyone care that Mac has knocked out people bigger and heavier than Heihachi?

Heihachi literally tore the JACKS apart with his fists, and they are also taller and heavier than Heihachi. Oh, and they're made of reinforced steel. Can't forget that part.

Heihachi is more durable than any Punch Out character, as well as the JACKS, despite their size.

quote:
Heihachi has never taken those kind of punches and yet, you think they for some reason won't hurt him at all? Maybe it's you who needs to start using logic.


Heihachi has taken punches that hit harder than Mr. Sandman and Little Mac.

Mr. Sandman can break a hole in a brick wall with a single punch. Heihachi can punch through reinforced steel. He has fought and beaten people who can crater steel and shatter glass with the shockwaves of their punches. He trained a bear that beat Paul Phoenix, who as we see physically matched Bryan Fury (the guy who tosses around tank turrets and steel girders as if they were baseballs) and crumbles their surroundings with a clash.

So really, why should I think Mac can hurt Heihachi? Does he or any Punch Out character have feats on that level?

quote:
You think you're slick but you keep dancing around the point I'm making about the bullets or explosions, which are not the same as punches (again). Not once have Heihachi taken punches that do the same damage as them.


He's taken a bullet to the teeth, and caught it.

He's withstood punches that can level buildings and destroy parking lots.

He's fought people who are provably bullet-timers. "Oh but they don't punch as fast as b-" No. Prove it. thumb up

quote:
You know, it would have been much easier to say "I quit because I got nothing to prove that this would be a stomp like I want it to be". You know? Just man up!


Yeah right. Anyone can see how badly you're getting your ass kicked in this debate. Story of your life, right?

You have no legs to stand on. Concede the debate and learn something from this experience.

Heihachi wins. smile


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 02:16 AM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
They really wouldn't do any better than Don.


Prove this statement.

quote:
Causing shockwaves? Sometimes, you gotta wonder if that's just an exaggeration because that stuff already flying when Kazuya and Jin threw their punches.


And now you're cowardly trying to deny the superior feats Tekken has so you can attempt to salvage the debate. But you can't. No one here is stupid enough to fall for it.

Heihachi wouldn't just beat Little Mac. He would beat the entire cast of Punch Out at the same time.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 02:18 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
They really wouldn't do any better than Don. Causing shockwaves? Sometimes, you gotta wonder if that's just an exaggeration because that stuff already flying when Kazuya and Jin threw their punches.



Sometimes you gotta wonder if all of these Lil' Mac feats are just an exaggeration.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 02:34 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Which is a shame really. If you gave Little Mac a gun he would have a better chance.


He wouldn't, actually. He would be unable to fire it through his gloves.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 05:10 AM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
So what did you mean to say?


I meant to say that I haven't seen each of those characters do all of those things at once.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
They are all among the strongest fighters in Tekken. Any of them would kill Mac with a single punch. thumb up


Nice proof there. roll eyes (sarcastic)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Whereas Heihachi has beaten someone who can tear buildings down with a single punch (that isn't aimed at the building) and destroy forests.


Now you're just making stuff up. Nobody ever tore a building with a punch and just destroying a forest doesn't count.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
You can't prove that he stayed still. It's an assumption. thumb up

But it's fair to point out that the building was cracking. Who cares though?

I've already shown that Tekken characters can both crack and destroy the areas around them without directly attacking it.


Sorry, all of that isn't as impressive as destroying a building with fists.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Buildings are hollow. Were you unaware of this? Did you believe buildings were completely filled in?


None of that matters.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
True, which is part of why Little Mac is so much less threatening an opponent than one of the Devils. He's also much weaker, slower, and more fragile.

So why do you think he can challenge Heihachi again?


Because he beat someone as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi and beaten guys far bigger than him.

As for being "weaker, slower, and more fragile"...nice proof there again. roll eyes (sarcastic)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Now you're moving the goalposts. You wanted to know how powerful Devil is. I showed you.

"Oh but neither Heihachi nor Mac have telekinesis and you didn't show them using it on Heihachi-"

But Little Mac isn't a building, why can you apply Mr. Sandman punching a building against Mac? < --------- This is you.

Also, I could ask you to prove that Mac has ever been hit by one of Mr Sandman's punches in canon, or that Sandman was punching that hard in the fight. smile

But the point is that Heihachi has beaten opponents who are capable of far more than any Mac has beaten.


You're right, you did show me how powerful Devil is. That doesn't mean what you showed was relevant. Your logic is that just because he has that ability, that gives Heihachi the edge over Little Mac. I can use that same logic and claim that just because Great Tiger uses magic, that gives Mac the edge over Heihachi.

If you want to play the whole "did this happen in canon" game, I can do that with Heihachi too; did Kazuya ever punch him that hard? Did he just shrug it off like you claim? smile

It's also pretty clear you don't get my point; Mr. Sandman was PUNCHING the building and punching is what he does in a fight like against Little Mac. He didn't shoot it or blew it up. He did it in a way he'd always do in a fight.

What you doing is trying (key word: trying) bring up everything else BUT something as direct as that and trying to claim Heihachi easily beats him, in which you failed to do.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Each individual brick was smaller than his fist. It was light brickwork.


He's a big guy. Of course they're smaller than his fists.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I didn't say they were. I just said they were far superior than the impact of Mac's or Mr. Sandman's punches. Try to keep up.


Despite not doing anything close to what Mr. Sandman? What a joke!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
So you concede that they can move as fast as bullets?

If one of them moves as fast as a bullet with their fists, what are they doing Bro Smash?


Now it's my turn to say "try to keep up".

Read what I said again:

"You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets."

It should be as clear as day, NemeBro.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Which is a shame really. If you gave Little Mac a gun he would have a better chance.

Slightly. Heihachi would still win.

Why do you believe it doesn't matter that Heihachi is fast enough to dodge or block bullets? Why do you believe reaction-time isn't important in a fight?


Because bullets are not the same as punches. Dodging or catching a bullet says nothing about how many punches he can dodge from up close. In addition to that, the guys that he lost to was never said to have bullet-like punches anyway.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Why can Heihachi dodge a bullet, but not dodge Mac's much slower punch?

Why can Heihachi survive a massive explosion, but be knocked out by Mac's much weaker punch?


Replace Mac's name with either Jin, Kazuya, or Lars.

You see what I'm saying? Catching just one bullet and surviving an explosion that knocked him out doesn't suddenly mean he can't be beaten by far less.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I've posted speed feats, durability feats, and strength feats for Heihachi and characters around or below Heihachi's level.

You've posted a single punching strength feat for Mr. Sandman. One that is inferior to many of the various strength feats in Tekken.


Almost none of those feats you posted were relevant. The only thing you posted that counts was strength feats, which, no matter how much you try to turn it, is very comparable to Mr. Sandman's feat.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Little Mac hasn't. Mr. Sandman has. With a flurry of punches. Heihachi and friends have done similar with one. That wasn't aimed at the building.


thumb up Get the point now?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Mr. Sandman is considerably weaker than Heihachi.

In fact, let's look at the first punch he threw at that wall. It could only dislodge some bricks from the wall, making a hole somewhat bigger than his fist.

Wow man. This guy's a ****ing powerhouse. He can definitely take on a guy who tears through reinforced steel with his fists and fights guys that can toss tank turrets around. That was sarcasm by the way. I don't feel like I should have to say that, but you might legitimately think I was being serious.


You should be serious since it's true...except for the whole tank turrets part since Heihachi never fought Bryan.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I do like how you're sheepishly avoiding acknowledging Bryan Fury by the way. Bryan Fury who has never been implied to have come close to winning the King of the Iron Fists tournament, like Paul, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi have.


And yet, you don't even have a shred of evidence that he even fought Bryan. So that's also irrelevant.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Why should anyone care that Mac has knocked out people bigger and heavier than Heihachi?

Heihachi literally tore the JACKS apart with his fists, and they are also taller and heavier than Heihachi. Oh, and they're made of reinforced steel. Can't forget that part.

Heihachi is more durable than any Punch Out character, as well as the JACKS, despite their size.


The point I'm making is that the fact Mac has beaten guys bigger and heavier than Heihachi means that there's no way Heihachi is going to be laughing at these kind of shots.

You like to keep bringing up his durability and how strong the other Tekken characters are but one thing you can't deny is that Heihachi has never once took any kind of attack and shrug it off like it was nothing. Not even that explosion.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Heihachi has taken punches that hit harder than Mr. Sandman and Little Mac.

Mr. Sandman can break a hole in a brick wall with a single punch. Heihachi can punch through reinforced steel. He has fought and beaten people who can crater steel and shatter glass with the shockwaves of their punches. He trained a bear that beat Paul Phoenix, who as we see physically matched Bryan Fury (the guy who tosses around tank turrets and steel girders as if they were baseballs) and crumbles their surroundings with a clash.

So really, why should I think Mac can hurt Heihachi? Does he or any Punch Out character have feats on that level?


I've been through this already. At this point, you're just ignoring what I'm saying and it's pretty clear.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
He's taken a bullet to the teeth, and caught it.

He's withstood punches that can level buildings and destroy parking lots.

He's fought people who are provably bullet-timers. "Oh but they don't punch as fast as b-" No. Prove it. thumb up


Shouldn't that be your job?

You still claiming he withstood punches like that but you never proved that they can tear through buildings, nor can you prove that he wasn't hurt by them.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah right. Anyone can see how badly you're getting your ass kicked in this debate. Story of your life, right?


Please! You hardly said anything relevant throughout this entire debate, just showing how delusional you are. I guess that's regular trait of yours.

Just to let you know, I got no problem with you thinking Heihachi wins...but it's not a stomp and that's very clear.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 05:55 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove this statement.


They never have.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
And now you're cowardly trying to deny the superior feats Tekken has so you can attempt to salvage the debate. But you can't. No one here is stupid enough to fall for it.


I'm not trying to "deny" anything. Why don't you actually look at what you're using? Stuff was starting to fly before they threw their punches.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Heihachi wouldn't just beat Little Mac. He would beat the entire cast of Punch Out at the same time.


Yeah, with a rocket.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Sometimes you gotta wonder if all of these Lil' Mac feats are just an exaggeration.


Because...?


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 06:22 AM
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Man, I'm not going to keep doing these long posts.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 06:50 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
I meant to say that I haven't seen each of those characters do all of those things at once.


Oh but they have done them though? Now we're getting somewhere.

It's irrelevant though. If they can rend steel, glass, and concrete then they are strong enough to do so. If can dodge and block bullets, they are fast enough to do so.

Concede.

quote:
Nice proof there.


No one Mac has fought can output the same damage they can.

quote:
Now you're just making stuff up. Nobody ever tore a building with a punch and just destroying a forest doesn't count.


Pfffft!

Doesn't count? **** off binky boy. It sure as **** does count. It's a feat for Devil, who Heihachi beat in Tekken 2.

I'll grant you I was exaggerating on the building bit, but Jin and Kazuya shattering the window panes up to the top of a skyscraper from where they were standing is still more impressive.

quote:
Sorry, all of that isn't as impressive as destroying a building with fists.


Prove it.

Let me explain this for you: you are aware that you can do more damage to something by punching it directly, right?

For example, take a cup, place it on the ground, and hit it. It moved, right?

Next, take that same cup and place it on the ground. Then, walk ten feet away, and throw a punch. You could even punch something else if you want. The cup didn't move nearly as far, if at all, right?

Paul, Bryan, Kazuya, Jin, and Heihachi could all move that cup by punching it ten feet away. Do you see what I'm saying, or are analogies too complicated for you to understand?

quote:
None of that matters.


I accept your concession binky boy, because it being hollow sure as **** does matter. It makes it easier to punch through.

quote:
Because he beat someone as strong (if not stronger) than Heihachi and beaten guys far bigger than him.


Mr. Sandman is much weaker than Heihachi. That pussy can only punch a small hole in a brick wall. It takes him an extended period of time to destroy a small building. He's a wimp.

quote:
As for being "weaker, slower, and more fragile"...nice proof there again.


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This is all he can do with a single punch. He shattered a few bricks. Heihachi rends steal.

quote:
You're right, you did show me how powerful Devil is. That doesn't mean what you showed was relevant. Your logic is that just because he has that ability, that gives Heihachi the edge over Little Mac.


Yep, I am saying that Heihachi beating far more powerful and versatile opponents than Mac or anyone Mac has faced means that is but one reason that Heihachi would literally kill Little Mac.

quote:
I can use that same logic and claim that just because Great Tiger uses magic, that gives Mac the edge over Heihachi.


You could, but you'd be missing the point entirely.

What does Great Tiger's magic do for him? Some teleportation or minor illusions. Nothing that would bridge the gap that is Heihachi's overwhelming superhuman physical attributes.

What does Devil have going for it? Oh, you know, superhuman physical abilities above even Heihachi, flight which makes his superhuman prowess even more dangerous, telekinesis that can crush and explode a motorcycle (this would kill Little Mac by the way), and enough power to destroy a forest.

Do you get it? Devil's abilities I cited are actually relevant to the fight at hand because of how quantifiably impressive Devil is. Great Tiger having minor magic powers proves Mac can handle some unusual, but not particularly potent abilities.

They're not comparable.

quote:
If you want to play the whole "did this happen in canon" game, I can do that with Heihachi too; did Kazuya ever punch him that hard? Did he just shrug it off like you claim? smile[/qupte]

You could, but you would only be embarrassing yourself.

I made that statement as a mockery of you. Hence the "this is you" disclaimer.

I also never claimed that Heihachi just "shrugged off" Kazuya's punches. Kazuya's strength is actually impressive. Nothing like Little Mac's or Mr. Sandman's.

Also, is that really the argument you want to make?

If we stripped the feats of other characters away from the debate and only argue based on their feats it wouldn't look good for Little Mac. The only marginally superhuman feats in Punch Out were performed by other characters. Heihachi has superhuman feats of his own. smile

[quote]It's also pretty clear you don't get my point; Mr. Sandman was PUNCHING the building and punching is what he does in a fight like against Little Mac. He didn't shoot it or blew it up. He did it in a way he'd always do in a fight.


No, you're provably the one who didn't get my point and have publicly embarrassed yourself, as I said above.

Also, the notion that Mac might not have ever been hit by Mr. Sandman has merit, considering that Mac's entire portrayal is one of a smaller, weaker fighter who relies on quickness and intelligence to overcome physically superior foes.

So we have Mac MAYBE taking punches who was SLIGHTLY superhuman. Anything else?

quote:
What you doing is trying (key word: trying) bring up everything else BUT something as direct as that and trying to claim Heihachi easily beats him, in which you failed to do.


Once more, open up an English textbook and get to studying. There is no discernible meaning in the words you have written.

quote:
He's a big guy. Of course they're smaller than his fists.


He's 6'5". Big, but not massive.

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/man-...to-34465376.jpg

This is a heavy brick. They are typically used for streets and shit.

http://www.self-build.co.uk/sites/d...ll-building.png

This sort of brick is the type used for the building Mr. Sandman could punch a small hole in. That's roughly to scale.

So they're light bricks. And bricks are brittle. Reinforced steel isn't. smile

quote:
Despite not doing anything close to what Mr. Sandman? What a joke!


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/...zps980f5b9e.jpg

Heihachi has done far better than punching a small hole in a brick wall.

Mr. Sandman needs time to destroy a small building. With a single punch he can only do that. smile

quote:
Now it's my turn to say "try to keep up".

Read what I said again:

"You only showed that they can catch or dodge bullets, not that they can punch as fast as bullets."

It should be as clear as day, NemeBro.


If they can move their bodies and hands as fast as bullets, why can't they punch as fast as bullets?

quote:
Because bullets are not the same as punches.


True, Tekken character punches are far more dangerous than bullets. thumb up

quote:
Dodging or catching a bullet says nothing about how many punches he can dodge from up close.


It says a lot if those punches are much slower. Like Mac's. thumb up

quote:
In addition to that, the guys that he lost to was never said to have bullet-like punches anyway.


They don't need to be. They have feats proving that they too have bullet-timing speed. thumb up

quote:
Replace Mac's name with either Jin, Kazuya, or Lars.


If only. This might actually be a fight then.

quote:
You see what I'm saying? Catching just one bullet and surviving an explosion that knocked him out doesn't suddenly mean he can't be beaten by far less.


I see what you're saying, but you're wrong, and I'll tell you why.

You're using "circular reasoning". This is a logical fallacy where your conclusion is buried in your premise.

Which is to say, you are asserting that Heihachi is easily tagged by punches slower than bullets, because he was tagged by Lars, whose punches are slower than bullets, because Heihachi can be tagged by punches slower than bullets, because Lars hit him and he is slower than bu- wait, that doesn't make sense. Who says Lars is slower than bullets? He has dodged and blocked bullets in Tekken 6, as have many characters in Tekken. So what says they are slower than bullets?

Nothing actually.

quote:
Almost none of those feats you posted were relevant. The only thing you posted that counts was strength feats, which, no matter how much you try to turn it, is very comparable to Mr. Sandman's feat.


Repeating yourself doesn't make what you say true.

No, they're not. Mr. Sandman could punch a hole in a brick wall with a punch. Impressive, a bit above peak human, but that feat has nothing on people who devastate their surroundings indirectly with their fights.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 08:13 AM
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quote:
thumb up Get the point now?


Reread what I said again. You just agreed that Mr. Sandman is weaker than Heihachi and friends. Are you conceding?

quote:
You should be serious since it's true...except for the whole tank turrets part since Heihachi never fought Bryan.


No, but Paul matched his physical strength. The same Paul who was defeated by Kuma, the bear Heihachi trained.

quote:
And yet, you don't even have a shred of evidence that he even fought Bryan. So that's also irrelevant.


Read above.

quote:
The point I'm making is that the fact Mac has beaten guys bigger and heavier than Heihachi means that there's no way Heihachi is going to be laughing at these kind of shots.


Him taking punches that level the area with their shockwave, dominating massive steel androids, and surviving a massive explosion say differently.

Here is how this debate has been going.

Me: *Makes a statement on the outcome of the fight, then supports it with sound logic, adequate evidence, heaping piles of charisma, and hilarious commentary*
Bro Smash: Nuh uh!

Get a better argument.

quote:
You like to keep bringing up his durability and how strong the other Tekken characters are but one thing you can't deny is that Heihachi has never once took any kind of attack and shrug it off like it was nothing. Not even that explosion.


To be fair he's also never been faced with punches as weak as Little Mac's.

Also he took that bullet attack and shrugged it off. With his teeth.

quote:
I've been through this already. At this point, you're just ignoring what I'm saying and it's pretty clear.


No, you haven't. You have not proved Mr. Sandman's punch is as good as the ones I provided (I mean, you can't, it's inferior). You haven't provided evidence that Mac can punch hard enough to hurt Heihachi. You've provided almost nothing.

I've responded to every single inane point you have brought up and crushed it under my heel. You blatantly claim feats "don't count", refer to them as "irrelevant", and blatantly try to claim that Kazuya and Jin's feat is an "exaggeration", all without providing evidence for these claims. I've already won this debate, and everyone can see it.

quote:
Shouldn't that be your job?


Why would it be my job to prove that their punches are slower than bullets? That's your claim. You prove it.

quote:
You still claiming he withstood punches like that but you never proved that they can tear through buildings, nor can you prove that he wasn't hurt by them.


Uh, I've shown you Paul and Bryan leveling a parking lot with the shockwave of their punches.

How strong do you think someone has to be to punch through a brick wall?

quote:
Please! You hardly said anything relevant throughout this entire debate, just showing how delusional you are. I guess that's regular trait of yours.

Just to let you know, I got no problem with you thinking Heihachi wins...but it's not a stomp and that's very clear.


Okay, stop stealing the lines I use against you and playing them off as your own. "I guess that's a regular trait of yo-" I just said that to you. Changing the words slightly doesn't make it not plagiarism. You've done it several times in this post and it's just sad.

I've proven Heihachi is stronger, faster, and more durable. Not by a small amount, either.

Heihachi stomps. I know it, everyone but you knows it.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 08:13 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
They never have.


No, but they have torn through steel and devastated parking lots by punching each other.

Oh but a ****ing bull is going to give them pause? Get real.

quote:
I'm not trying to "deny" anything. Why don't you actually look at what you're using? Stuff was starting to fly before they threw their punches.


Because they stomped on the ground, knocking the pavement loose. Pay attention.

quote:
Yeah, with a rocket.


With his fists.

quote:
Because...?


He's making fun of you.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 08:15 AM
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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 02:19 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
No, but they have torn through steel and devastated parking lots by punching each other.

Oh but a ****ing bull is going to give them pause? Get real.



Did I say anything about a bull giving them pause? No, I didn't. Pay attention. I said they wouldn't do any better than Don.

I'm surprised you're even fussing over that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Because they stomped on the ground, knocking the pavement loose. Pay attention.


Okay, so you admit that not all of that from punches that didn't even connect. Good.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
With his fists.


He'd get brutalized. He isn't going in there without his rocket.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
He's making fun of you.


Then he should said more than that like me (hence, why I said "Because").

All of that and you still haven't added anything else to the argument, while blatantly ignoring what I'm saying.

Concession accepted.


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 04:31 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Did I say anything about a bull giving them pause? No, I didn't. Pay attention. I said they wouldn't do any better than Don.


Which you didn't prove.

quote:
Okay, so you admit that not all of that from punches that didn't even connect. Good.


It doesn't matter. If it was from the stomps or the punches, the feat is considerably better than Mr. Sandman's for reasons illustrated.

Mr. Sandman can only put a small hole in a brick wall. He'd be garbage tier in Tekken.

quote:
He'd get brutalized. He isn't going in there without his rocket.


Still no proof. I'll accept this as a concession.

quote:
Then he should said more than that like me (hence, why I said "Because").

All of that and you still haven't added anything else to the argument, while blatantly ignoring what I'm saying.

Concession accepted.


Hahah, look at this dumbass getting his ass kicked and then stumbling back to his feet asking me if I'm okay, as if he didn't just get publicly embarrassed.

You still haven't even addressed that Mr. Sandman (you know, the guy you are using to support your entire argument), with one punch, could only punch a small hole in a brick wall. Probably because it invalidates your entire argument (though everything I said did). But I'm ignoring everything you're saying?

Cry more about it. I won this debate, now put your tail between your legs and get the **** out of my thread. thumb up


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Old Post Dec 15th, 2014 08:21 PM
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