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Home » Misc » Computer / Video Games Discussion » Games 'Versus' Forum » Little Mac vs. Heihachi Mishima

Little Mac vs. Heihachi Mishima
Started by: Bro SMASH

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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
So you think you're Samuel L. Jackson?


I know I am.

quote:
Straight punch in the air.

Did he do that to his opponent?


Don't know, but you're assuming it's a special technique rather than just a punch.

Based on what? The burden of proof is on you.

You're also assuming that a punch utilizing just the arm, with no hip movement involved like a normal punch, is going to be stronger than a proper punch. And that's just funny.

Got any proof though?

quote:
Where as Mr. Sandman's punches look no different from how he normally punches.


Actually, he wasn't wearing his gloves when he punched the building. smile

Obviously this means the way he punched Mac is completely differently.

quote:
It's the truth. The fact that you keep bringing up less impressive feats proves it.


It doesn't matter whether or not it's true. It's a logical fallacy because you're resorting to attacking my alleged motives as opposed to debating the point. Attack the argument, not the debater, dumbass. smile

Also:

Premise: NemeBro is bringing up less impressive feats.

Conclusion: NemeBro is biased for Tekken.

The premise doesn't support the conclusion at all.

quote:
That's not the point.


It is if I say it is boy.

quote:
The point is about whether it matters if a character is amped or not. Despite the differences in both Kazuya' T4 story and the canon story, he wasn't amped in either one. That just goes to show you that it doesn't matter.

Paul wasn't amped in any of endings (as far as I know) but none of them was ever said to be canon so it doesn't matter.


It does. If a character is given an amp we know they never got, then the feat is useless for debating purposes.

Similarly, using Kazuya as an example, his defeat of Jin and Heihachi is not valid evidence because we know for a fact that Kazuya didn't beat them in T4 (feats against inanimate objects and shit exist in a murky grey area).

Paul? The endings don't contradict anything.

Tell me: why do you think the devs would show us him shattering boulders if he couldn't accomplish it?

quote:
There's no proof any of them can do it in far less time than Mr. Sandman.


Sure there is. I've proven that any of these characters can destroy more in a single punch than Mr. Sandman did.

quote:
And lol at Heihachi not being able to beat two characters with inferior feats but is somehow gonna solo the Punch-Out!! universe. laughing out loud


Are you referring to Lars and Alisa?

They do have feats. They managed to put up a good fight against Heihachi. smile

Oh, and Alisa can fly, dodge missile, and be hit in the face by a helicopter with no injury.

Lars? Lol.



Easily put down gun-wielding opponents, cratered the solid floor of the Mishima Zaibatsu, and took a grenade to the face without injury.

Tell me more about how Mr. Sandman and Little Mac compare to characters who easily take on gun-wielding opponents and withstand explosions that would kill any Little Mac character.

Why do you think the concussive force of an explosion is different from that of a punch, by the way?

quote:
It doesn't matter what you posted, if it's not relevant, then it doesn't count.


Still can't prove it doesn't count binky boy.

quote:
All we can clearly see the destroyed wall in front of him.


Buildings have four walls.

quote:
There's no clear view what's that in the background.


There's clearly a big broken wall in the background. Put on your glasses.

quote:
Do you really think the wiring would be THAT big if it was behind him?


Don't know, don't care. Ask the artists.

quote:
And just another thing; he's not punching in the last frame, you can't prove that he moved when he was.


There's still dust in the air, but glad you conceded that he did, in fact, move in the third frame.

I can support the claim that he did, in fact, move while punching the building by pointing out you have nothing but your assumption that he stood still (because you really are trying to not lose this argument. A futile effort as I've already won). I can do this by pointing out the relatively minor damage done to the wall with his first punch, and even point out that in the second frame he would have to move to continue punching the building. Otherwise he would only hit air.

Sorry bro. Feat took an extended effort. He lacks the raw explosive one-punch power of a Tekken character. thumb up

quote:
If you keep doing this whole grammar mess, then I'm just going to have to take it as a concession because it's not something worth bringing up and you know it.


First of all: style over substance fallacy.

Second of all, that's not what a concession is. I've addressed your every word in meticulous detail. While you have to shorten my posts to reply and straw man them because you're a coward.

quote:
You're making excuses now. He's either standing outside or not. You can't have it both ways.


No, I certainly can you dumb mother****er.

He's inside the remains of the building. On the horizontal plane he is surrounded by the debris. But on the vertical plane the sky is open to him, meaning from that point of view he is outside.

If you step inside a ring of trees, are you no longer outside?

quote:
We already know he's standing outside while there's no proof in any frame that he's standing inside, so what's been consistently shown in all of these frames is that, yes, he's outside. End of story.


No. thumb down

We can clearly see the remains of the building behind him, as well as in front of him.

quote:
I never conceded.


This entire debate has been concession after concession on your part.

Truly I am invincible. The world's greatest.

Wei, I think our friend may need prescription glasses. Do you see the building wreakage behind Mr. Sandman?


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Old Post Dec 19th, 2014 04:02 AM
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Lek Kuen
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It's clearly pointed out. There is a broken wall behind him.

But even ignoring all of the dumb arguments about none of Heihachi's feats counting because he wasn't boxing. Is there even any proof that Mr. Sandman hit Mac?


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Old Post Dec 19th, 2014 04:07 AM
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Of course not.


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Old Post Dec 19th, 2014 04:10 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Mac can't even beat a single Jack unit much less a Heihachi who tears them apart barehanded.

Dude caught a bullet in the mouth, survived getting thrown in a massive ravine, survive building size explosions all in tekken cinematics (canon).

Also his mac's gets his shit pushed in by Mike Tyson.
Bro, haven't you heard? None of those feats count.


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Old Post Dec 19th, 2014 04:25 AM
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Wei Phoenix
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Damn, he just punched a rocket out of his face.


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Old Post Dec 19th, 2014 11:30 AM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
First of all: style over substance fallacy./


Quit using stuff you don't know the meaning of.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Second of all, that's not what a concession is. I've addressed your every word in meticulous detail. While you have to shorten my posts to reply and straw man them because you're a coward.


No, you are conceding, just in a cowardly way. I told you to shorten your posts and you're doing it anyway, clearly as a way to annoy me while at the same time, repeating all of this irrelevant mess. It's just a fancy of showing that you don't have any real argument. You just spout nonsense like always.

Also, Lars didn't take any grenades to the face.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
It's clearly pointed out. There is a broken wall behind him.


You can't even clearly see what's behind him.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
But even ignoring all of the dumb arguments about none of Heihachi's feats counting because he wasn't boxing. Is there even any proof that Mr. Sandman hit Mac?


I said nothing about Heihachi "not boxing". I said fighting...and it's not a dumb argument at all, otherwise, Heihachi wouldn't have lost to anybody he fought.

If you want to assume Little Mac fought Mr. Sandman without getting hit even once, that kind of works against Heihachi, as he has no speed feats to show he would do any better.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Mac can't even beat a single Jack unit much less a Heihachi who tears them apart barehanded.

Dude caught a bullet in the mouth, survived getting thrown in a massive ravine, survive building size explosions all in tekken cinematics (canon).


And still gets beat by guys who aren't bullet speed or has attacks comparable to "building size explosions" (canon).
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Damn, he just punched a rocket out of his face.


If using other characters' feats is that important, then I would also like to point out that Piston Hondo outran a bullet train.


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Old Post Dec 20th, 2014 07:06 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Quit using stuff you don't know the meaning of.


http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#StyleOverSubstance

Me being a douche does not detract from my argument.

quote:
No, you are conceding, just in a cowardly way. I told you to shorten your posts and you're doing it anyway,


I don't care what you told me. You're not my boss.

quote:
clearly as a way to annoy me while at the same time, repeating all of this irrelevant mess. It's just a fancy of showing that you don't have any real argument. You just spout nonsense like always.


I accept your concession.

quote:
Also, Lars didn't take any grenades to the face.


Oh sorry, you're right. It was a rocket launcher. thumb up

quote:
You can't even clearly see what's behind him.


You can see a crumbling wall. thumb up

quote:
I said nothing about Heihachi "not boxing". I said fighting...and it's not a dumb argument at all, otherwise, Heihachi wouldn't have lost to anybody he fought.


You're continuing to use circular reasoning.

"Lars and friends can't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets, because they don't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets."

Sorry bro, but the feats of their punches, their ability to harm Heihachi, and the speed to block and dodge bullets prove how flimsy your argument is. thumb up

quote:
If you want to assume Little Mac fought Mr. Sandman without getting hit even once, that kind of works against Heihachi, as he has no speed feats to show he would do any better.


If he can dodge a bullet, he can dodge Little Mac. smile

quote:
And still gets beat by guys who aren't bullet speed or has attacks comparable to "building size explosions" (canon).


That explosion was closer to the size of a city block.

Also, they're all bullet speed. Just like Heihachi. ****ing Bob the Blob is a bullet-timer.

quote:
If using other characters' feats is that important, then I would also like to point out that Piston Hondo outran a bullet train.


That's pretty good. He'd have to be running 200+ mph, assuming max speed.

You can't really run in a boxing ring though, can you? smile

Oh, and it's still much slower than a bullet. thumb up

Oh yeah, and Alisa can outfly attack helicopters, which can be about as fast as a bullet train, and are only a little slower if not.


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Old Post Dec 21st, 2014 09:42 PM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#StyleOverSubstance

Me being a douche does not detract from my argument.


Unless you're trying to cowardly change the argument (like what you're doing.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I accept your concession.


I never conceded.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh sorry, you're right. It was a rocket launcher. thumb up


He didn't do that either.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
You can see a crumbling wall. thumb up


No you can't.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
"Lars and friends can't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets, because they don't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets."

Sorry bro, but the feats of their punches, their ability to harm Heihachi, and the speed to block and dodge bullets prove how flimsy your argument is. thumb up


You know, it's funny how you're saying it "proves" my argument is flimsy and yet, this hardly had anything to do with my argument and doesn't disprove the point I'm making.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
If he can dodge a bullet, he can dodge Little Mac. smile


Just like he can dodge Jin, Kazuya, and Lars...roll eyes (sarcastic)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
That explosion was closer to the size of a city block.

Also, they're all bullet speed. Just like Heihachi. ****ing Bob the Blob is a bullet-timer.


Dodging a bullet and being as fast as a bullet are two different things.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
That's pretty good. He'd have to be running 200+ mph, assuming max speed.

You can't really run in a boxing ring though, can you? smile



You do realize I was making a point about using other characters' feats, right? Why do you think I never brought that part up until now?

So yeah, nice try but I already knew about that fact and that's why I never brought it up.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2014 02:42 AM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Unless you're trying to cowardly change the argument (like what you're doing.


How so?

quote:
I never conceded.


I disagree.

quote:
He didn't do that either.


Then what caused the explosion he was caught in?

Are you claiming there was no explosion?

quote:
No you can't.


Sure I can.

quote:
You know, it's funny how you're saying it "proves" my argument is flimsy and yet, this hardly had anything to do with my argument and doesn't disprove the point I'm making.


I'd say feats that prove Tekken characters are stronger and faster than you say, as well as my pointing out of your circular reasoning do quite a bit to prove how flimsy your argument is.

quote:
Just like he can dodge Jin, Kazuya, and Lars...roll eyes (sarcastic)


If they can hit Heihachi, they're about as fast as bullets. thumb up

quote:
Dodging a bullet and being as fast as a bullet are two different things.


True, but Tekken characters like Lars and Kazuya have dodged machine-gun fire and taken out the ones firing. Bob of course dodged a bullet after it was fired. Heihachi as you know caught a bullet in his mouth, and scoffed at the idea that one of those "pea shooters" could hurt him.

quote:
You do realize I was making a point about using other characters' feats, right? Why do you think I never brought that part up until now?


But you've been doing that with Mr. Sandman.

quote:
So yeah, nice try but I already knew about that fact and that's why I never brought it up.


All the feats I brought up were relevant though. Heihachi has fought people in wide open spaces, not just a boxing ring, and most of the feats deal with reaction-time, punching power, or durability.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2014 10:48 AM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
How so?


By trying to make a big issue out of my grammar.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I disagree.


Believe whatever you want.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Then what caused the explosion he was caught in?

Are you claiming there was no explosion?


There is an explosion but I don't think he took it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sure I can.


But you can't.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I'd say feats that prove Tekken characters are stronger and faster than you say, as well as my pointing out of your circular reasoning do quite a bit to prove how flimsy your argument is.


Except you never pointed out any "circular reasoning" and most of the stuff you say are irrelevant.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
If they can hit Heihachi, they're about as fast as bullets. thumb up


No they aren't.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
True, but Tekken characters like Lars and Kazuya have dodged machine-gun fire and taken out the ones firing. Bob of course dodged a bullet after it was fired. Heihachi as you know caught a bullet in his mouth, and scoffed at the idea that one of those "pea shooters" could hurt him.


It's possible they dodged the aim of the gun, which doesn't mean that they're as fast as bullets.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
But you've been doing that with Mr. Sandman.


For a different reason. Someone else brought up busting buildings with punches and that's when I brought up Mr. Sandman.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
All the feats I brought up were relevant though. Heihachi has fought people in wide open spaces, not just a boxing ring, and most of the feats deal with reaction-time, punching power, or durability.


laughing Gimme a break! The only thing relevant was the punching power and that's pretty much it.


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Old Post Dec 22nd, 2014 06:24 PM
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Jmanghan
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At least we all agree that Little Mac loses.


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Old Post Dec 23rd, 2014 09:41 AM
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Bro SMASH
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I never agreed with that but I never disagreed either.


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2014 12:16 AM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
By trying to make a big issue out of my grammar.


How does that actually change the argument?

quote:
Believe whatever you want.


Belief has nothing to do with it.

quote:
There is an explosion but I don't think he took it.


So you believe he escaped the blast radius of the explosion, then came back to where it occurred before anyone could see? All in less than a second?

quote:
But you can't.


I'm getting pretty bored of your lying.

I pointed out exactly where the wall was for you. Stop being a scumbag and admit it's there.

quote:
Except you never pointed out any "circular reasoning" and most of the stuff you say are irrelevant.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
You're continuing to use circular reasoning.

"Lars and friends can't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets, because they don't have punches rivaling explosions that are faster than bullets."

Sorry bro, but the feats of their punches, their ability to harm Heihachi, and the speed to block and dodge bullets prove how flimsy your argument is. thumb up


Things don't go away just because you say so.

quote:
No they aren't.


Is that all you can say?

quote:
It's possible they dodged the aim of the gun, which doesn't mean that they're as fast as bullets.


Bob dodged the bullet after it was fired, from a sitting position.

Heihachi himself thrust his face forward to catch the bullet with his teeth, far after it had been fired.

Try again. thumb up

quote:
For a different reason. Someone else brought up busting buildings with punches and that's when I brought up Mr. Sandman.


And?

You're still using Mr. Sandman's feat to support Little Mac.

quote:
laughing Gimme a break! The only thing relevant was the punching power and that's pretty much it.


Yet you still can't explain why that is. smile


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2014 03:47 AM
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NemeBro
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Oh yeah, Merry Christmas. You filthy animal.


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2014 04:10 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh yeah, Merry Christmas. You filthy animal.
Thirty Minutes :P


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Old Post Dec 25th, 2014 04:32 AM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
How does that actually change the argument?


Because it's totally different from the subject and you're putting more focus on it than you should.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Belief has nothing to do with it.


Yes it does.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
So you believe he escaped the blast radius of the explosion, then came back to where it occurred before anyone could see? All in less than a second?


Whatever that explosion was, he likely just avoided it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I pointed out exactly where the wall was for you. Stop being a scumbag and admit it's there.


You don't even know what's really behind him so no, you didn't point out any wall.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Things don't go away just because you say so.


Still no circular reasoning.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Is that all you can say?


It's about as much as you said.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Bob dodged the bullet after it was fired, from a sitting position.

Heihachi himself thrust his face forward to catch the bullet with his teeth, far after it had been fired.

Try again. thumb up


Bob also used the papers to turn the bullet and even after that, he was dodging the aim of the guns.

And Heihachi thrusting himself forward doesn't suddenly mean he's as fast as a bullet. Let's not ignore the fact that he had to position himself first in order to catch the bullet.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
And?

You're still using Mr. Sandman's feat to support Little Mac.


To show the kind of opponent Little Mac has faced. You bringing up super strength and punching power for Heihachi (and other Tekken characters), I'm just merely bringing up that Little Mac has fought somebody like that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Yet you still can't explain why that is. smile


You want me to explain your argument for you?


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Last edited by Bro SMASH on Dec 25th, 2014 at 05:04 AM

Old Post Dec 25th, 2014 04:59 AM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Because it's totally different from the subject and you're putting more focus on it than you should.


Style over substance fallacy again. smile

quote:
Yes it does.

Whatever that explosion was, he likely just avoided it.


Based on what?

So you're saying that he escaped the blast radius of the missile that was right next to him, then went back to where it exploded before anyone could notice? That would make him able to run faster than the speed of sound.

You're in direct violation of Occam's Razor. We see the primed missile next to Lars. We see it explode. We next see Lars getting up from the wreckage uninjured.

He tanked it, and your girlish attempts at denying it fool no one. thumb up

quote:
You don't even know what's really behind him so no, you didn't point out any wall.


I do know what's behind him. A wall is.

quote:
Still no circular reasoning.


"no u" is not an argument.

quote:
It's about as much as you said.


"no u" is not an argument.

quote:
Bob also used the papers to turn the bullet and even after that, he was dodging the aim of the guns.


Hold on: you think that Bob the Blob deflected a bullet after it was fired... with a newspaper?

(please log in to view the image)

Now let's just ignore that that's ****ing stupid for a moment here... how, exactly, does that make the feat less impressive? He still would have had to done it after the bullet was fired, but now he also has the ability to deflect bullets... with a piece of paper. Well good job shooting yourself in the foot.

But no, you're wrong. Watch the video again. He closed the newspaper, put it down, jumped to the side, and immediately after that his seat is shot. Look at the sparks. They were right where Bob was sitting.

As for your unproven assumption that he aim-dodged after: it doesn't matter. thumb up

He's proven he can dodge bullets. Of course he would be faster than a thug's aim.

quote:
And Heihachi thrusting himself forward doesn't suddenly mean he's as fast as a bullet. Let's not ignore the fact that he had to position himself first in order to catch the bullet.


So he can position himself and thrust himself forward before a bullet can reach him?

Wow, he's even faster than I thought...

quote:
To show the kind of opponent Little Mac has faced. You bringing up super strength and punching power for Heihachi (and other Tekken characters), I'm just merely bringing up that Little Mac has fought somebody like that.


Heihachi has better feats and has fought people with better feats than them.

quote:
You want me to explain your argument for you?


I want you to struggle articulating why it's wrong. smile


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Old Post Dec 27th, 2014 03:54 AM
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Wei Phoenix
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Bob can deflect bullets with paper? He's more l33t than I thought.


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Old Post Dec 27th, 2014 02:48 PM
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Bro SMASH
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Style over substance fallacy again. smile



No it isn't, again.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Based on what?

So you're saying that he escaped the blast radius of the missile that was right next to him, then went back to where it exploded before anyone could notice? That would make him able to run faster than the speed of sound.

You're in direct violation of Occam's Razor. We see the primed missile next to Lars. We see it explode. We next see Lars getting up from the wreckage uninjured.

He tanked it, and your girlish attempts at denying it fool no one. thumb up


I didn't say anything about him "escaping it" and running back. I said he avoided it. If you noticed right before the explosion, Lars was trying to keep the soldier from aiming the gun at him. If he could tank the explosion, he wouldn't have had to do that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I do know what's behind him. A wall is.


Still no proof.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
"no u" is not an argument.



"no u" is not an argument.


Never said any of that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Hold on: you think that Bob the Blob deflected a bullet after it was fired... with a newspaper?

Now let's just ignore that that's ****ing stupid for a moment here... how, exactly, does that make the feat less impressive? He still would have had to done it after the bullet was fired, but now he also has the ability to deflect bullets... with a piece of paper. Well good job shooting yourself in the foot.

But no, you're wrong. Watch the video again. He closed the newspaper, put it down, jumped to the side, and immediately after that his seat is shot. Look at the sparks. They were right where Bob was sitting.

As for your unproven assumption that he aim-dodged after: it doesn't matter. thumb up

He's proven he can dodge bullets. Of course he would be faster than a thug's aim.


Actually, there is a spark on the newspaper too. Look at the first bullet right when it hits. It's right there on the newspaper.

But no need in trying to turn it into something more impressive than it is because he did already have the newspaper up (meaning he didn't have to move much anyway) and the bullet itself just BARELY missed him. Let's not forget he was still sitting down too.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
So he can position himself and thrust himself forward before a bullet can reach him?

Wow, he's even faster than I thought...


...Dude, pay attention, he positioned himself before the bullet was shot. It shouldn't be hard to see.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Heihachi has better feats and has fought people with better feats than them.


Most of those feats don't count. smile

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
I want you to struggle articulating why it's wrong. smile


It's not a struggle because it's easy to see why you're wrong.


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Last edited by Bro SMASH on Dec 28th, 2014 at 07:10 PM

Old Post Dec 28th, 2014 06:57 PM
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Bro SMASH
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But seriously, I'm not going to keep going back and forward with you, so you think what you want and I'll think what I want.


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Old Post Dec 29th, 2014 06:14 AM
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Home » Misc » Computer / Video Games Discussion » Games 'Versus' Forum » Little Mac vs. Heihachi Mishima

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