1. Am I still a judge?
2. Am I just supposed to be reading this thread, or both the old one and this one?
3. As celeyhyga asked, am I PMing my decision, or posting here?
4. Next time, do everyone a favor and make a post limit. For something that's not even a full battle, 3-5 should do it. If it's a struggle with images, just post links instead (imgur, photobucket, whatever else the kids are using these days, etc.). I'm happy to look at this, I just want to understand my role before I start. Thanks.
I'll make this short seeing as how this was one clusterphukk of a match.
We can all wax poetic when it comes to these hyper roided herald level characters.. It seems as though they are always coming out with wtf power feats that contradict their other showings. We'd just end up going on and about this character was holding back, this character was weakend, etc. etc....
I'm jus going to keep it simple and focus in on this particular showing between the two. I fully understand what One_A_S was trying to explain, but I just can't make myself lean towards his view. It's true that Sentry is one deranged fukk, but that final scene was very telling. He seemed less burdened and was almost at peace in his attempt to put down WWBiatch. "But Sentry has exerted more output against other opponents?"
Collateral damage is not the be all end all as we know. Sometimes the settings allow for cheese feats to happen. I doubt Pak would have destroyed earth right then and there.
And even though Sentry did seem to "pull back" in the end, it really wasn't his mental illness that made him do so.
So in conclusion, my vote goes to Carver even though Sentry not holding back would still beat Hulk.
Hello Digi. I didn't know about this thread until yesterday. Just read through the thread and post here like Celey did. I agree with the cluster, sorry about that.
Ok. If I grasped this correctly, the point of the argument is to prove whether or not Bob was experiencing mental issues and had his power level reduced/wasn't able to use it to the full of his ability right? If so, here I go.
The debate was very hard to judge for me because I have a personal opinion on the matter, and had to make sure to keep that out of the decision.
I feel you both made strong points, and I'm not just saying that, I did a flip flop a few times. One Scott, you did a good job making sure not to let Carver's over interpretation of scans be left unchecked. You made him explain his reasoning and it came up faulty at times.
Carver you did well to point out that Sentry wasn't acting like a man who was holding back his power, and that even in a more controlled mental state he wasn't displaying much control to begin with....
God damnit this is difficult. Here's the deal, you're both right. To me, it's become obvious from the debate that Sentry was not in a good mental state and it was affecting his fighting. BUT. I don't think it affected his power. Scott proved that when Sentry is having a bad day, he curls up and really loses the will to fight. Sentry wasn't acting like that agaisnt WWH. He was clearly deranged, but a huge part of the Sentry losing power stems from him being afraid of going to far and not being able to control his powers if he loses sanity. Against WWH, he didn't appear to particularly care after he left the house. So his power wasn't being weakened, because he no longer cared to do so.
Now, THAT SAID. Just because he was not restraining himself, does not mean he was using every bit of power he could use. Scott brought up that Pak said something to the extent of Sentry being stopped before going too far, and I agree that it's reasonable to believe that he wasn't quite pouring everything he had into it. Carver, what type of bullshit is this that differently interpreted on panel happenings overrule direct writer input? On his own work no less? No.
So final verdict: The sentry was indeed affected mentally. That hampered the way he fought, that hampered him at first because of his fear of letting go also. Once he let go, he was no longer restraining himself, but that doesn't mean he was giving it 110% with every show either. He was taken down before destroying everything if I'm interpreting what Pak said correctly. He was not "weakened" from a power sense however, meaning he didn't have less than his full power at his disposal. He was weakened in the sense that plot demanded he fight like that so Hulk could win lol. So I'll give it Carver by the slimmest slimmest of margins.
Nice job both of you, pretty good debating all around. Feel free to ask any questions if you'd like me to clarify something. I would've called it a draw had I had not been forced to have an answer lol.
I think the agoraphobia was what prevented him from leaving. Once he left and started fighting, he was still mentally ill because he was so self destructive, but his power wasn't being dampened at that time.
One more thing, when the Sentry says "some days are....im sorry I can't. " He's not mentioning just some random day Carver. It's beyond obvious what he's talking about.
Hello all and thanks for the votes everyone along with the opinions gave here. I will post some replies to Celey and Damborgson (nothing crazy because you all made some good points) once Digi posts. Don't want to post anything further to sway him from his decision. I will post once the battlezone is done.
Alright, I'm going to sound like a bit of a curmudgeon here, so apologies in advance. You both debated well, minus the caveats I'm about to mention:
This isn't a BZ so much as a series of quotes copy/pasted from elsewhere. It was very hard to follow, even knowing that I was only focusing on one question.
Second, this kind of thing is the absolute height of subjectivity in comics. The kind that we just have to live with, that will never have a definitive answer. I do have an opinion that I'm about to share, but there's isn't a "right" answer here. No number of judges will change that.
Carver's going to get my vote on a technicality, and it's similar to what the other judges have said. Yes, Sentry holds back, and yes, he has the greater overall power. If it were just about holding back, we have Sentry's entire canon outside the WWH fight, added to Pak's words. Carver's correct in saying feats trump writer opinions. But we don't have a clear-cut feat, and Bob's "thanks" has to mean something. So I think Pak's interpretation of that moment makes perfect sense. But the question is if he holds back due to mental instability. And it's actually the opposite. He makes a conscious decision to hold back, to be the savior. It's a moment of heroic clarity, not mental instability.
So I'm not sure that's an affirmative or negative for/against either entire argument. But because of how the question is worded, that's the likeliest scenario imo.
KMC Community Forums
Dec 9th, 2014 05:10 PM
