Dooku had been already at his limit brah. Old geezer doesn't have any room to improve himself.
Savage on the other hand, has grown much stronger in S5, learned ''astonishing'' skills from his brother. Stronger and faster, S5 Savage can basically solo Dooku. By Dooku's own admission, Savage was a threat to himself.
Dooku : I can sense him, Grievous. That creature, Savage Opress, is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes.
Grievous : You consider him a threat?
Dooku : He is a threat to all of us, even the Jedi. With the Nightsisters eradicated, there is no one left to control him.
__________________ ''You are no warrior, Maul thought. You know nothing of the dark side.'' ★_Darth Maul Respect Thread_★
Last edited by Marco1907 on Dec 15th, 2014 at 01:40 AM
Yeah but he showed his full mobility in an open arena against S6 Skywalker and Kenobi.
He clearly didn't have room for that kind of mobility when he fought Opress and Ventress, yet still used the limited space to dance around them both.
People need to stop ignoring environments fights are taking place in, as well as circumstances (Dooku was not expecting a fight at all, and certainly not a fight against Opress+Ventress).
Dooku's Pure Saber performance against Kenobi and Skywalker clearly shows matching/defeating Opress+Ventress in a Sabers only fight is certainly not beyond his capabilities. He just needs to be ready, and may require more maneuvering room.
He was worried more about his potential threat. But he never actualized that potential. Dooku also felt "something sinister" coming in that scene when talking about Savage. Of course we know that something sinister was Maul, not Savage.
Fact is the only person Dooku should have been worried about was Skywalker. But he was too arrogant to admit that, which ended up being his downfall.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Dec 15th, 2014 at 11:11 AM
That was inconsistent and one time thing, in normal circumstances Kenobi and Savage are equal fighters. Kenobi used a tactical mind against Savage, he used the same spot where Adi Gallia hit before. Without death of Adi Gallia, that PIS would never happened, Kenobi is not even using Jar'Kai in first place, he used Gallia's sword, and calling it ''wreck'' is hilarious considering the fact that Obi-Wan was helpless about Adi Gallia's death. So your feeble attempt to lowball Savage is useless on this matter, Savage has enough offensive strength to be a threat to Dooku. You need to compare their styles, using ABC logic is a stupid thing to do here. For example, Obi-Wan always sucks against Dooku, but better against Anakin, same with Savage, Savage is better against Dooku but sucks with Obi-Wan.
So, accept it or not, Savage is canonically more powerful in S4 and S5, that is why he can be a bigger threat to Dooku.
__________________ ''You are no warrior, Maul thought. You know nothing of the dark side.'' ★_Darth Maul Respect Thread_★
Last edited by Marco1907 on Dec 15th, 2014 at 01:32 PM
It seems like the majority is underestimate Savage because of Florrum battle, which he even defeated Adi Gallia there.
S4 Savage already defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi with his brother's help, disarmed Asajj Ventress and also defeated Plo Koon, defeating Dooku in only sabers is not an impossible thing to accomplish for Savage. Not to mention S5 Savage Opress puts up a better fight than Kit Fisto against Sidious which is even more impressive.
__________________ ''You are no warrior, Maul thought. You know nothing of the dark side.'' ★_Darth Maul Respect Thread_★
Last edited by Marco1907 on Dec 15th, 2014 at 05:37 PM
None of these people you're mentioning are comparable to Count Dooku though. Not to mention Kenobi was taken by surprise by S4 Savage (on top of him being outnumbered). Ventress was also not able to use her usual Jar Kai style against Opress.
You keep saying the Florrum battle was a one-off. But at least that was a long battle with many blocks, parries e.t.c. Whilst you keep judging Dooku on 1 damn strike that put Dooku in a bad position. Despite the fact that an unarmed Dooku was able to evade both Opress and Ventress, so he'd clearly have little-no trouble against Opress alone. He could just dodge/dance around him all day until he hits him.
The Florrum battle wasn't a one-off. His duel against Maul is another example. And I said that Kenobi wrecked Opress, not both brothers. Maul is actually equal duelist to Kenobi, and both are superior to Opress.
Kenobi was loosing to them on Florrum, but Savage did far too much mistakes.
Except that Savage actually defeated Adi Gallia and take a small wound on his left knee before that duel. Savage and Obi-Wan are comparable duelists imo but Obi-Wan is a little better, and Maul is a little better than Kenobi as well.
I will tell you why Florrum is one-time ;
1- Kenobi was in a very desperate situation and amped due to Adi Gallia's death
2- Kenobi was using Jar'Kai, which is very unfamiliar style for him
3- Kenobi was using an aggressive style, which is very unfamiliar again and that surprised the brothers
4- They were fighting in a very confined space, that was a disadvantage for brothers
5- Darth Maul also underestimated Kenobi there because of 2 v 1
6- Kenobi was still losing he used a ''tactical mind'' and hit the same spot which Adi Gallia hit before, he only won via that last hit to Savage's left knee.
7- We've also another example about Maul & Savage vs. Kenobi from last episode of Season 4, where that the brothers easily stomped Kenobi in a normal circumstance.
Can you say the same things about Savage vs. Dooku battle ? That is why it is one-time thing while Dooku vs. Savage is not.
__________________ ''You are no warrior, Maul thought. You know nothing of the dark side.'' ★_Darth Maul Respect Thread_★
Last edited by Marco1907 on Dec 15th, 2014 at 06:39 PM
Before I address all this, let's get straight what you're arguing here.. You arguing that Kenobi battering Opress in Sabers was a One-Off, or that Kenobi besting Maul+Opress was a one off? Because if it's the latter I'll agree with you, but not the former.
It was One damn strike you keep going on about. Not an extensive 1 v 1 with Maul followed by a 2 v 1 against Maul+Opress outside, and another 2 v 1 against the Duo in the cave!
Dooku was fighting 2 opponents, and was evading both their blows unarmed. So tell me how Opress even managing to lay a hit on Dooku wasn't a One-Off?
In fact their training session in the same damn episode proved Opress 1 v 1 can't lay a proper blow on Dooku. So explain to me again how that 1 Damn strike was Not a One-Off?
"Obi-Wan picked up Adi Gallia's fallen lightsaber and fended off the Sith brothers. Savage's inexperience proved costly as Obi-Wan was able to sever the Sith apprentice's arm."
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
I'm not sure what your counter argument is here. It was the 1 hit Savage landed the whole 2 on 1 fight. Apart from that neither Ventress nor Opress were able to even touch Dooku for the duration of the 2 v 1 fight (before the rage enhanced choke).
So you're claiming that wasn't a One-Off because Savage showed a bit of combat skill? You want me to show you the level of skill Kenobi showed against Maul and Opress? Or Dooku's skill against Anakin and Obi-Wan on Oba diah? Now those are some real examples skill that can not be denied.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Dec 15th, 2014 at 09:28 PM
Registered: Oct 2014
Location: France/Rezée (near Nantes)
Dooku like mozt of the form II mazterz, iz train to not be dizarmed by a form I mazter.
Me I'm more holonet in my head... If you really know the Holonet mentality you could be really great encylopedian like me (even if I have to admit I'm zome time too lazy to uze my knowledge...)
Dec 15th, 2014 01:37 AM
Dooku was at a massive disadvantage in that tiny room.
