Problem with Magnaguards is that their skill can vary a lot. Even Anakin and Kenobi were shown to take quite a while to kill some Magnaguards in RotS. What is clear for sure is that facing two opponents is more than twice harder. Facing 3-4 is nearly impossible. Facing 30 would require godly miracle to surive even for a few seconds.
That is incorrect, she “blitz” two of them with her lightsaber, once she calls it back to her.
Once again, she’s focused on the defense of the chancellor, not full blown combat. And when she gets serious she takes out two of them in a short time with her lightsaber.
It’s a bit foolish to argue that defeating Magna-Guards faster, puts fisto on a different level, that would put him above Anakin, who was stalemating a magna-guard on naboo for a solid twenty seconds(ish). About the same time as Ti stalemating a Magna-Guard. That doesn't seem very logical
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That is a moot point, you’re arguing that killing them with precise shots that ended them quickly is in no way, shape or form a showing of skill? Despite the fact that she knew where to hit them so that they would be destroyed?
And are you saying that Magna-Guards are unfamiliar with their own weapon? the weapon that they train with and are programmed to use?
And, Shaak ti is exempt of drawbacks of Makashi – a form that does not fair well against blaster fire. And Ataru – form that does not do well against multiple opponents. She shares great hype as well, being considered a being of legendary strength in the force and a master of Makashi, Ataru as well as being considered a great sword being along side, Dooku, Mace, Depa Billaba and Anakin. In other words, one of the order’s best duelists.
You mean, aside from force augmentation , which allowed her to break the head of a Magna-Guard with her bare knee and lock blades with eight magna-guards? How about her force speed which she used to its enth degree on coruscant? Or her TK which left holes in their wake?
Also, if she was able to keep up with a fully healthy Grevious, who had ever advantage in the book, whilst tired and using forms which did not fair well against multiple combatants, what makes you think she'll lose to fisto? who only beat Grevious because he[Grevious] was in a disadvantageous position?
A lightsided nexus weakens a darksided force user? Since when? Do you have excerpt or scan that supports this? And, once again, Shaak ti’s last three blows, nearly killed him, in fact all of them broke through his defenses
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Bullcrap, an “admission of inferiority” would be what Mace said about Depa, that is clear cut and to the point, she states that they are the best of order, yes, but she doesn't follow up by saying. “And they are certainly much more skilled than I!” she follows up by saying “what could you do?” to Anakin. Her admitting inferiority is your own deduction, not fact.
Or she would have defeated all of them? Or she would have pulled some giant tk feat like mace? Or she would have offered them all a cup of tea and then strike them in the jugular. All that is, is speculation, not at all fact.
Except being overwhelmed by them, would have ended in her death, yet it didn’t she lived and fought against 20+ magna-guards, while fisto blitzed two. Again, Anakin doesn’t blitz any magna-guards, so….. What does that say?
Yet, her “superior” died with a single strike, while she survived against darth vader. Honestly, this asserts Ti’s position as one of the best PT Jedi, among the top ten in my opinion. I think must users on here even have her on their PT lists too.
You can say that Drallig> Ti, but the fact of the matter is, he’s not, there is nothing, that he has, that would put him above Ti. That – my maul loving friend, is fact. Or would you care to point me to a feat places him a tier above shaak ti? – no, how about a feat that equates parity? hm?
Without the ROTS feats, all he has is getting blitz by Vader.
Here's what Shaak Ti has as of ROTS
Speed: a tired and injured Shaak Ti, pushed speed to it’s enth degree to reach grevious and kept up with several Magna-Guards, as well as briefly keeping up with Grevious.
Strength: A injured Shaak Ti stalemated 8 magna-guards, machines made of metal would have considerable strength, yes?
Telekinesis: Her Telekinetic strength was capable of creating holes, a single blast. She easily ragdolled Magna-Guards(not as great, true, but still noteworthy) she lifted large piece so of rubble with no visible difficultly against grevious
Dueling: Unlike, Aayla, K’kruhk and the other jedi, she did not go down easily, -an exhausted shaak ti put up an admirable fight against Grevious, defending against all four of his blades, while he had every single advantage imaginable. She is counted among the greatest sword beings, which –as I already stated before, include, Dooku, Mace, Depa and Anakin. She is thought to be so powerful, that “only the best of order” could beat her. It is stated that the Jedi “revere her as one of the highest of the order”, and that she is “one of the most accomplished in lightsaber combat” Not to mention she is stated to be a “fierce combatant and master tactician”. This is – course, during TCW.
She can heal herself easily and can take a great amount of damage.
Shaak Ti, wins. even as of ROTS, she is impressive. Overrated? that's hardly the case. people had - and some still have her, at low levels. As a duelist, Ti is comparable to B-team themselves, perhaps even more powerful than them. Shaak Ti wins.
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Where does Shaak Ti battling and escaping Darth Vader come from? I've seen people mention this nonsense several times and say it is from TFU. However, I ow the game and saw nothing stating such. Not even in the databank.
Anyway, Fisto should win this. His performance against Greivous was great unlike Ti's two attempts.
Last edited by ares834 on Jan 16th, 2015 at 06:52 AM
Fated-
Pulling her lightsaber through two MangaGuards with TK ---------------------------------- The point I was making.
7:10
There is no way to excuse the fact that she was in single combat with that MagnaGuard, and was unable to kill it with her lightsaber. What's more, the "defending the Chancellor" excuse doesn't work here because not only was Palpatine being held by a third Jedi, but Ti and the ugly guy were only contending with one MagnaGuard each, which were directing all of their attention on them. There is no way to weasel out of this.
"When she gets serious" LOL when wasn't she serious? Go to 8:12 in the video above, she has extensive exchanges with one MagnaGuard where she isn't fighting off the backfoot and is standing in front of it fighting it - and she doesn't kill it very quickly at all. This only adds to my point. I'm not saying she was fully dedicated to fighting the MagnaGuards all the time, but when she was, she wasn't killing them quickly with her lightsaber.
When has Anakin stalemated a single MangaGuard for twenty seconds? He's dismantled four in around the same time Darth Maul has, which is around the same time Fisto took down two.
Again, I said earlier that I'm not basing this entirely off of how they perform against MGs. But, there is a noticeable disparity in how they perform against a common enemy, which lends credence to the idea that Fisto > Shaak Ti.
You're once again missing the point entirely. It wasn't a showing of lightsaber skill due to the absence of lightsaber form being used. If Ti could just impale Fisto using a method of offensive he has no training or defence against, then sure, she could do that - but she doesn't have that. She only had it against the MGs, as per LoE.
It's not about the weapon. It's about how she went about using it. She probably could have implemented similar tactics with her lightsaber while disregarding Form, but then she didn't, because as we see she's incapable of killing them as rapidly with her use of Ataru and Makashi as she can with her blunt, direct staff tactics.
...that's nice, I guess. I wasn't disputing any of that. I was just saying that Fisto isn't limited by Shii-Cho. Although Ti or Depa being peers of Dooku, Mace or Anakin is lolworthy.
To be fair the MGs stopped fighting immediately after initiating that blade lock, so there's no proof she would have held them all off. Her Force speed is inferior to Kit's, as I've shown, and her TK isn't enough to bridge the disparity in dueling skill. Not for majority of the time, anyway.
Well let's not be misleading her - Grievous f*cked her up. So I fail to see your logic.
You're saying that Shaak Ti is better than Fisto because she got wrecked by Grievous in negative circumstances, while Fisto defeated Grievous with positive circumstances? That's like saying a swimmer who came last because of an injury is better than the guy who won on steroids. Not how it works I'm afraid. She needs superior feats, not a shittier setting to produce feats.
Did.. you read the post I quoted? The dark side was "weakened" in that area and Galen had trouble "awakening" it. That alone is proof enough.
.....like I said already, I thought it was worth noting.
The only person speculating is you. I backed up my claim that she was, at that point, f*cked, with the fact that when surrounded in similar situations she was disarmed and repeatedly stunned by the MGs. Nothing to suggest she would fair any better after they have her cornered and blade locked.
What you're saying ------------------------- the point, once again. She was overwhelmed by them, twice. This isn't a feat of superiority over Kit. Kit blitzing two MagnaGuards in far less less time than it takes for Shaak to kill one is evidence for him being superior.
Anakin has killed four in the same timeframe as Darth Maul. I'm not sure where you're finding inconsistency. It's just people like Shaak and padawan Ahsoka who find MagnaGuards troubling, really.
Rofl. Running away from Anakin Skywalker is a top 10 feat in your view? Nice.
Being stated as being her objective superior in two sourcebooks is all I need. Have you got the quote that details Ti's fight with Vader? I'd be interested in seeing it.
Shaak Ti isn't superior to a duelist who has curbstomped an earlier version of Quinlan Vos, a duelist who has or outdueled and stunned the perceptions of AotC Kenobi + wrecked formidable opponents like MGs and JK droids, or a duelist who has sparred evenly with Mace Windu without having his form picked apart (like duelists like Quinlan Vos have).
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Registered: Aug 2014
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The two attempts where she was exhausted, in one case because of days of fighting and in the other case having ran a marathon whilst protecting the Chancellor? Sure we can ignore that context.
Fisto on the other hand was 100% and this was against a much less impressive General Grievous. His OCW version was almost a tier above TCW's due to feats and the fact he was debuting as a character, meaning the Jedi were made to do the job for him.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Skilled Jedi can use the force to replenish themselves almost instantly as seen with Dooku in RotS. Regardless, in the first duel she had the help of several other Jedi. That should more than make up for her exhaustion.
Now admittedly, this is merely abc logic and really isn't enough proof to put Fisto above Ti.
Last edited by ares834 on Jan 16th, 2015 at 07:54 AM
Ti was wrecked by Grievous twice. She would have done better without fatigue but to what degree is speculative. Based on her other feats, not much better.
Fisto did very well against a weaker Grievous with positive circumstances. Correct. How is this a slight against Kit? Doing well because something is skewered in his favour doesn't detriment him, just like Ti getting wrecked under bad circumstances doesn't necessarily detriment her.
Comparing their feats outside of those two fights will determine who is more skilled (Fisto tbh).
__________________ “The galaxy must experience the pain of death and the rapture of rebirth as I have. I will bring chaos. It is time for war.”
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
She ran and Force jumped constantly across the skyline of the senate district before fighting 20 Magnaguard simultaneously and THEN Grievous defeated her. Overplayed? please.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
This is true....and no Sourcebook I have on it, says that she ever dueled Anakin. I'm thinking it's just made up, Wookiee has been known to have errors on it.
Unless there's a source I'm missing. But it doesn't really add up, when you take into account other sources.
Last edited by Zenwolf on Jan 16th, 2015 at 08:15 PM
Like I said, I own the game and didnt see it mentioned in the databank (its also on YouTube for those who want to see for themselves). Maybe it's in someone else's rather than Ti's?
Not really. Dooku's an exceptional Force User, and even then him tiring was clearly a factor in that fight.
Now when being not just tired but "exhausted" is specifically mentioned as a factor in both of Shaak Ti's losses to Grievous, it can't just be ignored. Especially when they were both long drawn out fights that exhausted her.
You're saying she didn't kill any of them with her lightsaber, she did. I was correcting you.
You know, another factor that would come into play, would be that she is unfamiliar with the Magna-Guards, so she was being wary, gauging their skill and then butchered them all with easy. Just my two cents, but not fact.
The fact remains, when she actually felt like it, she destroyed the magna-guards with absolute ease - with her saber. or was there some sort of unorthodoxy in her moves that caught the Magna-Guards off guard?
Because she's getting the hell out dodge? they're in a tram-station with active trams passing and going, she's blocking it's strikes and simultaneously maneuvering herself out of that dangerous spot. and once she "get's serious" she butchers the magna-guards.
On Naboo, when Grevious suffers defeat at the hands of the Gungans. he doesn't even destroy any of the magna-guards there. though, he was fighting dooku[ish] so there's that too.
That is a really dumb point. Nahdar Vebb sliced two magna-guards within 5-7 seconds. so what? does that put him above Shaak Ti? i mean if we're going to compare how they perform against a common enemy then, wouldn't that be the case?
that's a pretty flawed excuse.
So, precise strikes that ended them with a single blow, isn't a show of Makashi? deadly accuracy?
Except when she butchered two of them right? and when she kept them all at bay with her saber and then again with the staff and saber. I don't know about you, but hitting them with pin-point accuracy is a show of Makashi to me.
Yeah? well, saying that Ti admitted inferiority based on your own deduction would be even more "lolworthy"
Fact remains, she and depa are listed as "great swordbeings" and are later counted amongs the likes of Dooku, Anakin and Mace. But if you want to continue going against the very words of the book, then far be it from to stop you.
And? these are eight metal machines with superior strength, she locked with them all, you're really just making excuses to make ti look like a pleb here if you think that they didn't put any of their strength into the deadlock. really? I You mean aside from being a blur? and moving faster than a ship that took two minutes to get to its destination while it took her a mere 30 seconds? lets not forget that she was hurt by electro staff(which were able to take down Clone troopers by the way)
Alright, tone down the sass, every other time i mentioned her fight with grevious i stated that she contended with him "briefly" don't exaggerate my one **** up.
The fact is, she and the others were not at 100%, not Aayla, not K'kruhk, not Ki-Adi and not Shaak Ti. So, lets "not be misleading here" he only beat them because he had every advantage in the book, they were exhausted, he had them cornered and they had been fighting prior to the battle with grevious.
No, i'm saying that Shaak Ti lost to a fully healthy Grevious who had every advantage imaginable, and was the second Jedi to last longer than a second against him - whilst tired. I believe that Shaak Ti would win against grevious in a one on one if she was at 100%.
Point being, it's obvious that Fisto enjoyed several advantages during that fight, shii-cho, Grevious's arrogance, injury and clumsiness with his new limbs. The doctor droid even explicitly states that he shouldn't fight, yet he fought and lost because of it.
She has them
Ah, so he had to call on the darkness of Felucia to combat shaak ti? not use his own skill?
I fail to see how that would hinder his ability to draw on the dark-side. it's not as if someone was actively suppressing his force ability, it's only Shaak Ti keeping the dark side away.
Yeah, just don't toss around your own speculation, as fact.
except that she was keeping several of the guards at bay. or did you not watch that part of the video? Let's talk about Fisto, he was unable to handle 3 magna-guards and had to retreat while Shaak took on an great number of them. So....? where was his speed there?
Except Kit couldn't handle 3 magna-guards and his apprentice took them down in 5-7 seconds with ease. So what does that say? because of this Nahdar>Kit and Shaak Ti?
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Right, Eeth Koth, Kit, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Gallia never had any trouble with Magna-Guards right? except for when Koth was forced on the defensive, Obi stalemated a magna guard for twenty seconds, anakin for 15-20, Fisto didn't even blitz the magna guards in grevious' lair and Gallia was having trouble with them in the comic where she died. yup, only Ahsoka and Shaak ti, no one else.
yeah right? after she clashed with him and while her supposed "superior" died with a simple strike and as did many others. wow, much hilarious, very lols, so funny.
Yeah? give me the quotes, i'd like to see those quotes. if it's just "the best swordsmen in the temple" or "the greatest swordsmen anakin fought" I will laugh, hard.
Fact is, no feats support this. so until further news on Drallig appears. Shaak Ti>Drallig.
Except quotes call her a formidable fighter, a duelist that only the best of the order could beat, a great sword being counted amongst the greats and she is "revered" by the Jedi. She's continuously called a master of Ataru and Makashi, and is stated to be one of the most accomplished jedi in lightsaber combat, she is stated to have Legendary strength in the force. even Mace praised her at one point calling her deadly.
fact is, as of ROTS shaak ti is strong and powerful as well as an accomplished duelist. Her TFU incarnation is even more so. Shaak Ti wins.
Jan 14th, 2015 07:41 PM
