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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Abeloth vs. Vitiate and Nihilus


Abeloth vs. Vitiate and Nihilus
Started by: Stigma

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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Trocity
Abeloth supposedly subdued the Son and Daughter before the Father imprisoned her. She should honestly be pretty far above these guys.

Son overwhelmed Father in a confrontation as well. These matters aren't so black and white.

Comparison of potency of beings involved:-

Son versus Jedi



Vitiate versus Jedi



Nihilus versus Traya

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 29th, 2015 at 03:07 PM

Old Post Apr 29th, 2015 03:03 PM
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Stigma
Herald of the Judgement

Registered: Jul 2013
Location: Poland


 

LeGenD do you argue that the Ones are not more powerful than Vitiate and/or Nihilus?

Old Post Apr 29th, 2015 03:05 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stigma
LeGenD do you argue that the Ones are not more powerful than Vitiate and/or Nihilus?


He doesn't want to say really in matter of "raw power"...

But you have to understand also that the Ones are not Star Wars Gods or the Force itself for that matter,they are just the "supreme" Force users in matter of raw power,but they can die in the end.

Yes,Nihilus will just devour their connection to the Force and eat them. smile

Old Post Apr 29th, 2015 04:15 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arhael
Sure. Respectfully disagree with your opinion.

Your disagreement carry no weight without proper evidence to back it up.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arhael
Nyax is more powerful than them and they don't have Luke's saber prowess to stand a chance against him. They don't even have Mara's and Tahiri's saber skills to somehow survive his onslaught.

Lord Nyax is more powerful then Darths Vitiate and Nihilus, based on what exactly?

Both Vitiate and Nihilus have superior showings with the Force then Nyax. And both can defeat Nyax in an all-out confrontation.

Nyax's skills with a lightsaber are useless against foes such as Vitiate and Nihilus because confrontation with each is unlikely to come down to this moment.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 29th, 2015 at 07:12 PM

Old Post Apr 29th, 2015 07:07 PM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

1. The "beings" are the Ones, who Leland Chee has confirmed (the Father, at least, but by extension, it applies to the Ones) are the most powerful. Not only does that override SWTOR-related sources, but SWTOR sources don't even acknowledge the Ones or any beings who appeared after TOR's events.

It is PIS when some mooks manage to last against her in spite of her utterly annihilating similar opponents. It's just character/story-oriented preference.

My proof is in the Abeloth respect thread you can find online - if you don't bother to read it, then don't bother responding.

2. Notable Children or the First Son not being included, nothing implicates the Children or his "pawns" as anything more powerful than the Lost Tribe of the Sith's general members. And as far as I know, their awakening/Vitiate's control over them involves Vitiate tapping into a portion of his power which he sank into them earlier (which the TOR Encyclopedia described as "insidious barbs")

3. I don't know what you're talking about. Vitiate is clearly more powerful than Revan and the ancient Sith.

4. Oh, please. It's extremely evident how biased you are when you're supporting TOR characters in every thread, and you literally had to mention Palpatine when you tried to demonstrate how you didn't rank Ven Zallow so highly.

As for proof, keep that respect thread by you. I'll give you additional quote when it's necessary.

5. lol Vitiate taking multiple Voices over entire centuries doesn't show a lack of weakness (to at least a minor extent) if he loses a body. Vitiate's Ziost feat lacks elaboration, and Abeloth has destroyed the Sinkhoel Station which kept multiple black holes in check (and Abeloth seemingly influenced those black holes as well).

6. Not against remarkably powerful beings, of course, but I never claimed she could. I said featless pawns and mooks would be, or her Psychosis would affect them, which you didn't even address.

7. I'm aware of that, and in a straight fight Vitiate would be exhausting all of his powers on Abeloth, not trying to control other beings to fight her. None of those can reach her when she's at full power.

Old Post Apr 30th, 2015 07:41 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. The "beings" are the Ones, who Leland Chee has confirmed (the Father, at least, but by extension, it applies to the Ones) are the most powerful. Not only does that override SWTOR-related sources, but SWTOR sources don't even acknowledge the Ones or any beings who appeared after TOR's events.

Mr. Leland Chee considers 'only' canon characters in rankings. Irrespective of this, Son overwhelmed Father with Force Lightning in a confrontation between the two after Father stopped Son and Daughter from fighting with his telekinetic abilities.

Disney perceives SWTOR as an alternative universe. According to SWTOR sources, Emperor Vitiate is the most powerful Force-user.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
It is PIS when some mooks manage to last against her in spite of her utterly annihilating similar opponents. It's just character/story-oriented preference.

My proof is in the Abeloth respect thread you can find online - if you don't bother to read it, then don't bother responding.

No. PIS is not the factor, but your claim is false.

Abeloth unleashed "nearly inconceivable amounts of energy" to destroy the City of Glass.

Abeloth does not melts individuals with her mere presence as you claimed, period.

Here is an example of a comparable showing from one of the sorcerers of Vitiate:

Widely regarded as one of the greatest Sith sorcerers in the Empire, the enigmatic Lord Fulminiss is a master of the dark side’s most arcane and lethal aspects. The grotesque Harrower assassins are his most famous creation, but legend has it he once summoned a raging storm of pure Force energy that disintegrated a rebellious city of natives in the Imperial-conquered Jabiim system. Lord Fulminiss is a respected expert on the topic of mass extermination, and at the Emperor’s request, he has performed extensive research into new ways of eliminating planetary populations. More than one Dark Council member has paid handsomely to obtain a record of Lord Fulminiss’s work for his or her private perusal.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Notable Children or the First Son not being included, nothing implicates the Children or his "pawns" as anything more powerful than the Lost Tribe of the Sith's general members. And as far as I know, their awakening/Vitiate's control over them involves Vitiate tapping into a portion of his power which he sank into them earlier (which the TOR Encyclopedia described as "insidious barbs")

Another Child of the Emperor named Valis overwhelmed Kira Carsen in a confrontation and would have arrested her if Hero of Tython (HoT) had not stopped him. In-fact, when Emperor called upon the Child within Kira Carsen, she managed to challenge HoT with the sudden surge of energy that she experienced (even sent HoT packing with a Force push in the beginning).

As I pointed out, Children of the Emperor are powerful manifestations of Emperor's sorcery and they are stronger then even known individuals of Lost Tribe.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
3. I don't know what you're talking about. Vitiate is clearly more powerful than Revan and the ancient Sith.

It is debatable that The Ones are superior to Vitiate or not.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
4. Oh, please. It's extremely evident how biased you are when you're supporting TOR characters in every thread, and you literally had to mention Palpatine when you tried to demonstrate how you didn't rank Ven Zallow so highly.

As for proof, keep that respect thread by you. I'll give you additional quote when it's necessary.

I don't care what you think about my preferences. You should stick to the arguments.

I did not mention Palpatine, I mentioned Yoda. As for Ven Zallow, he have impressive feats under his belt. It seems that you are still butthurt over your inability to prove that Sora Bulq was a match for Ven Zallow. I also refuted your nonsense that the prime of PT era (e.g. Mace Windu, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, Yoda and Palpatine) are superior duelists then ancient legendary lightsaber combatants.

You better drop the habit of posting nonsense instead of accusing me of bias.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
5. lol Vitiate taking multiple Voices over entire centuries doesn't show a lack of weakness (to at least a minor extent) if he loses a body. Vitiate's Ziost feat lacks elaboration, and Abeloth has destroyed the Sinkhoel Station which kept multiple black holes in check (and Abeloth seemingly influenced those black holes as well).

Vitiate's host shifting matters are not strictly confrontation-driven. You can notice in the Jedi Knight chapter of SWTOR that Vitiate presented a different host in each confrontation. You can also notice in Sith Warrior chapter of SWTOR that Vitiate possessed a Voss individual to understand this species.

For Ziost, play the expansion.

Abeloth may have destroyed the Sinkhole Station but she never influenced a cosmic black hole. She remained (effectively) trapped in the MAW cluster for as long as the Sinkhole Station properly functioned, and this implies that cosmic black holes kept her movements in check.

For comparison

Exal Kressh (apprentice of Vitiate) destroyed Lenico Colony Blue after an assassination attempt on her.

Lenico Colony Blue: http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb...oSystem-BOE.jpg

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
6. Not against remarkably powerful beings, of course, but I never claimed she could. I said featless pawns and mooks would be, or her Psychosis would affect them, which you didn't even address.

Vitiate's minions are not mooks. By drawing on his power, even his standard Imperial Guards were able to nullify the impact of Revan's powers on them.

Do the math.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
7. I'm aware of that, and in a straight fight Vitiate would be exhausting all of his powers on Abeloth, not trying to control other beings to fight her. None of those can reach her when she's at full power.

Vitiate is supremely powerful:

300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

- and can pull-off Voice alongside controlling minions. He draws energy from draining other beings and even from chaos itself, to fuel his own. Vitiate can siphon energy from even Abeloth to fuel his own.

In addition, since this is Vitiate (and) Darth Nihilus versus Abeloth, the latter's chances of victory are zero.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on Apr 30th, 2015 at 10:16 AM

Old Post Apr 30th, 2015 10:13 AM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

1. He made that claim before the canon split, apparently. The Son overpowered the Father after the Father claimed he was weakened by age. An immortal being weakened by age is precisely what I'd call PIS, by the way. He claims exactly that in Mortis arc.

Vitiate's SWTOR sources don't acknowledge any events that occur after SWTOR, nor do they acknowledge the Ones.

2. This can go on all day.

And she unleashed that energy subconsciously - out of sheer anger. In other words, she didn't need to actively blow the city apart. And she was unlikely to be at full strength, either.

That showing isn't comparable because it was an active application of the Force and it was a summoned storm, not energy that was unleashed subconsciously as a result of sheer anger.

3. I told you - Valis is a notable Child. Other various Children were regular enemies for the Consular.

4. I rarely ever bring up biases, but it's plainly evident that that's exactly the case here. You can deny it however much you want, lol. And you telling me to stick to arguments is laughable when you don't even properly address some of my points. You completely dropped the discussion on light/dark side being a necessity to defeat Abeloth.

And lol @ you saying it was Yoda as if it makes any difference. Yoda is just as good a swordsman as Palpatine, if not better. And I proved everything in that debate, whereas you failed to even make a response ultimately. And the notion that duelists are superior to others based on their era is pretty laughable.

5. The Sinkhole Station kept those black holes in place, so destroying it is certainly a monumental feat. Secondly, she broke out repeatedly and was re-imprisoned by the Ones.

6. Right, but if you imagine that Vitiate has time to be donating his strength to other individuals in a contest against Abeloth, then there's no point discussing this with you.

7. Abeloth can also siphon from Vitiate, and I don't know why you use hype-buster accolades to promote Vitiate. Abeloth has similar accolades too, and better ones. In fact, your quote claims Vitiate was merely "almost-godlike", yet sources have claimed that the Ones very much are godlike, and they are Celestials, basically. They represent the aspects of the Force themselves. They actually had to leave the known galaxy because their powers threatened to ruin/destroy the universe. So no, it's not arguable that Vitiate exceeds them in power.

Old Post Apr 30th, 2015 10:32 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. He made that claim before the canon split, apparently. The Son overpowered the Father after the Father claimed he was weakened by age. An immortal being weakened by age is precisely what I'd call PIS, by the way. He claims exactly that in Mortis arc.

Doesn't matters. What really matters is that how SWTOR is perceived at official capacity.

quote:
Q: Are The Old Republic expansions canon?

A: No — BioWare "has created their own universe that is so fantastic," we’re not going to change it, says Hidalgo.


---

The Father was dying.

The Father knew his days were numbered -- facing his impending demise, he needed to find another to keep the balance.

Taken from Star Wars Databank

Therefore, I doubt that these beings of Mortis are immortal.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Vitiate's SWTOR sources don't acknowledge any events that occur after SWTOR, nor do they acknowledge the Ones.

SWTOR acknowledges existence of Celestials:

Although the Republic has existed for millennia, there is evidence to suggest that long before its founding, a highly advanced race ruled the galaxy. Referred to as the "Architects" or "Celestials" by scholars, these beings possessed remarkable technology capable of constructing or realigning solar systems. The Corellia system, for example, appears to have been artificially constructed. These claims would seem extraordinary, but many of the Architects' machines survived the ages. The Vultar system was home to an immense "Cosmic Turbine" that could only have been Architect technology, before misuse destroyed both the turbine and the Vultar system itself. The fabled Centerpoint Station is thought to be an Architect installation, though many species have claimed it as the work of their own people. In addition to their engineering marvels, it is believed that the Architects seeded the Core Worlds with life–particularly humans–though some attribute this to the Rakata's Infinite Empire. Despite the proof of their achievements, however, there is little evidence to suggest where the Architects came from or what eventually became of them.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Galactic History 01: The Architects

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
2. This can go on all day.

And she unleashed that energy subconsciously - out of sheer anger. In other words, she didn't need to actively blow the city apart. And she was unlikely to be at full strength, either.

This makes no sense. Incredibly competent powerful Force-users can unleash Force powers without the need of hand gestures (examples include Yoda, Hero of Tython, and Vitiate).

Also, Sith are known to use their emotions to fuel their power and even unleash Force powers (e.g. Force Lightning).

Through their focus on these elements of the Force, the Sith have developed terrible powers, such as the ability to drain a being of its life force, or unleash their hatred as crackling bolts of energy.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

In short, Abeloth actively attacked the City of Glass.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
That showing isn't comparable because it was an active application of the Force and it was a summoned storm, not energy that was unleashed subconsciously as a result of sheer anger.

This feat is similar to that of Abeloth. And the attack is described as "a raging storm of pure Force energy."

You cannot even read properly, I seems.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
3. I told you - Valis is a notable Child. Other various Children were regular enemies for the Consular.

I am running out of words to address your nonsense. Children of the Emperor aren't ordinary individuals, but manifestations of Emperor's sorcery within individuals. Their is no such thing as a notable Child with exception of the First Son.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
4. I rarely ever bring up biases, but it's plainly evident that that's exactly the case here. You can deny it however much you want, lol. And you telling me to stick to arguments is laughable when you don't even properly address some of my points. You completely dropped the discussion on light/dark side being a necessity to defeat Abeloth.

Everybody is biased to a certain degree, don't pretend that you are an exception to his norm.

I am addressing your arguments, but you are not paying attention. Your typical response is to dismiss, downplay, and make unsubstantiated claims and silly theories.

Coming back to the presumed requirement of practitioners of both Light Side and Dark Side to defeat Abeloth in a battle, this is false. As I pointed out earlier, Luke Skywalker singlehandedly destroyed an avatar of Abeloth in a cave setting. This example affirms that Abeloth can loose in a battle against a competent foe. It is also inferred that an ancient weapon known as Dagger of Mortis can be used to kill Abeloth with a single blow.

You are trying to impose a story element on a hypothetical versus scenario and this isn't practical. If this is the case then keep in mind that Vitiate cannot be killed with conventional methods either. Even if looses a host, he can continue to function as an essence and he cannot be restrained in this form.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
And lol @ you saying it was Yoda as if it makes any difference. Yoda is just as good a swordsman as Palpatine, if not better. And I proved everything in that debate, whereas you failed to even make a response ultimately. And the notion that duelists are superior to others based on their era is pretty laughable.

I will continue this particular discussion in the relevant thread.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
5. The Sinkhole Station kept those black holes in place, so destroying it is certainly a monumental feat. Secondly, she broke out repeatedly and was re-imprisoned by the Ones.

These matters are not properly explained even at official capacity so you should refrain from making tall claims. There were two stations in the MAW clusters: Centerpoint and sinkhole. The former station was much larger and powerful, and used to create and manage the cluster known as The Maw. However, the Sinkhole station was used to simulate and manage "Abeloth's prison" within The Maw cluster.

As for Abeloth's repeated attempts to break free from her prison, this can be correct. And this also implies that Sinkhole station could not hold her forever.

Destroying Lenico Blue Colony is also a monumental feat. It is also enormous in size with high-speed trains being used as a means of transportation within.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
6. Right, but if you imagine that Vitiate has time to be donating his strength to other individuals in a contest against Abeloth, then there's no point discussing this with you.

Check the quoted videos below to understand that Vitiate remained extremely potent alongside managing his minions:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Son overwhelmed Father in a confrontation as well. These matters aren't so black and white.

Comparison of potency of beings involved:-

Son versus Jedi



Vitiate versus Jedi



Nihilus versus Traya



You should understand that Vitiate isn't a mortal being and his power is not restricted by a Midi-chlorian cap that mortals have. Vitiate's strength comes from sorcery and sources of energy.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
7. Abeloth can also siphon from Vitiate, and I don't know why you use hype-buster accolades to promote Vitiate. Abeloth has similar accolades too, and better ones. In fact, your quote claims Vitiate was merely "almost-godlike", yet sources have claimed that the Ones very much are godlike, and they are Celestials, basically. They represent the aspects of the Force themselves. They actually had to leave the known galaxy because their powers threatened to ruin/destroy the universe. So no, it's not arguable that Vitiate exceeds them in power.

1. Abeloth is not a being of Mortis or Celestial.
2. Beings of Mortis do not control the Force itself. They are Force-users by definition.

Also, watch Obi-Wan tolerating the power of a being of Mortis:

(please log in to view the image)

As for the reasons to reside on Mortis, we have claims of Father (in Canon continuity) and Abeloth being held responsible for beings of Mortis to seek refuge inside Mortis (in Legends continuity).

Old Post Apr 30th, 2015 02:29 PM
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SunRazer
Back From The Dead

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: The distant past


 

1. SWTOR isn't canon, either, lol.

Why would they not be immortal? They're entities of the Force, and this is actually confirmed. http://www.comicvine.com/profile/sh...-thread/102732/

There's also an accolade in there where they're stated to be all-powerful.

2. The Ones are evolved Celestials, essentially.

3. It doesn't fail to make sense just because you disagree with it. Read the passage - Abeloth unleashed that power subconsciously. In other words, it wasn't an active assault, nor was she at full power, so the feat doesn't compare. And the feat involved a Storm being summoned, not raw power rippling throughout the city.

4. It's laughable how you keep demanding proof from others, and when you run out of proof, you resort to dismissing another's argument as nonsense. It's hypocritical of you to be dismissing my point like that when you accuse me of the same thing. Concession accepted, though.

5. Luke destroying an avatar is like HoT beating an avatar. It's not a permanent kill by any means, which is what I'm referring to.

6. I think it's inferrable that the Sinkhole Station was responsible for the black holes, considering that they moved apart after it was destroyed.

7. I know of all that. That doesn't show that he would be capable of diverting his strength to others whilst fighting Abeloth.

The Son wasn't trying to kill Obi-Wan, lol. If you're suggesting that Obi-Wan could actually last in a real fight, then I don't have anything to say. Otherwise, that doesn't show anything.

Abeloth eventually became the "Mother", and she received her powers from the same sources as the Son and Daughter. Her not being born as a Celestial is irrelevant, especially when Vitiate wasn't either.

Really? Multiple sources in the RT above contradict that - the Son is stated to be the Personification of the Dark Side, and the Daughter was the embodiment of the Light Side. Lucas also claims the Father represents the Balance of the Force, a quote which I believe is even on Wookieepedia.

Legends sourcebooks reiterate the need for the Ones to go to Mortis. It's in the thread above. I refrain from posting quotes here unless absolutely necessary because I'm not used to the quotation system. At the moment, I just use speech marks. But here we go:

"Long ago, the Ones withdrew from the galaxy to avoid ruining it with their Force powers. "

- The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

And of course, the Father's actual quote:

"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."

"As a sanctuary?"

"And a prison. You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."

Old Post May 1st, 2015 09:56 AM
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Stigma
Herald of the Judgement

Registered: Jul 2013
Location: Poland


 

Can't we all just agree that Abeloth wins, move on and live in peace and harmony?

Old Post May 1st, 2015 10:00 AM
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Arhael
Devoid of reality

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Lost in Space


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your disagreement carry no weight without proper evidence to back it up.


Lord Nyax is more powerful then Darths Vitiate and Nihilus, based on what exactly?

Both Vitiate and Nihilus have superior showings with the Force then Nyax. And both can defeat Nyax in an all-out confrontation.

Nyax's skills with a lightsaber are useless against foes such as Vitiate and Nihilus because confrontation with each is unlikely to come down to this moment.

Giving a lot of hard time to prime Luke despite help is above any combat feats done Vitiate and Nihilus. Nyax will just mind dominate them and make them his puppets wink.

The only chance they have is using lightning against him, which he might simply not know how to defend against. But then again he might be able to tank it and only get angrier.

Old Post May 1st, 2015 01:26 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. SWTOR isn't canon, either, lol.

Why would they not be immortal? They're entities of the Force, and this is actually confirmed. http://www.comicvine.com/profile/sh...-thread/102732/

There's also an accolade in there where they're stated to be all-powerful.

2. The Ones are evolved Celestials, essentially.

3. It doesn't fail to make sense just because you disagree with it. Read the passage - Abeloth unleashed that power subconsciously. In other words, it wasn't an active assault, nor was she at full power, so the feat doesn't compare. And the feat involved a Storm being summoned, not raw power rippling throughout the city.

4. It's laughable how you keep demanding proof from others, and when you run out of proof, you resort to dismissing another's argument as nonsense. It's hypocritical of you to be dismissing my point like that when you accuse me of the same thing. Concession accepted, though.

5. Luke destroying an avatar is like HoT beating an avatar. It's not a permanent kill by any means, which is what I'm referring to.

6. I think it's inferrable that the Sinkhole Station was responsible for the black holes, considering that they moved apart after it was destroyed.

7. I know of all that. That doesn't show that he would be capable of diverting his strength to others whilst fighting Abeloth.

The Son wasn't trying to kill Obi-Wan, lol. If you're suggesting that Obi-Wan could actually last in a real fight, then I don't have anything to say. Otherwise, that doesn't show anything.

Abeloth eventually became the "Mother", and she received her powers from the same sources as the Son and Daughter. Her not being born as a Celestial is irrelevant, especially when Vitiate wasn't either.

Really? Multiple sources in the RT above contradict that - the Son is stated to be the Personification of the Dark Side, and the Daughter was the embodiment of the Light Side. Lucas also claims the Father represents the Balance of the Force, a quote which I believe is even on Wookieepedia.

Legends sourcebooks reiterate the need for the Ones to go to Mortis. It's in the thread above. I refrain from posting quotes here unless absolutely necessary because I'm not used to the quotation system. At the moment, I just use speech marks. But here we go:

"Long ago, the Ones withdrew from the galaxy to avoid ruining it with their Force powers. "

- The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

And of course, the Father's actual quote:

"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."

"As a sanctuary?"

"And a prison. You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."


Great,where it states they are the Force itself!? To manipulate=to use-->Force user

Palpatine tears apart the fabric of space and time,Nihilus tears apart the fabric of the Force itself;

In TCW Son dies,Daughter dies,Father dies and the fabric of the Force and universe remains intact. Son shows remorse when he unwillingly stabbed his sister-->He's not the DARK SIDE ITSELF,as the Father warns him to not fall to it.

Proof,they aren't the Force itself. stick out tongue

Old Post May 2nd, 2015 08:01 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

lol Razer when I saw ShootingNova made the Respect thread,it became clearly he interprets everything to literally. P.S I know Nova very well with his most bullshit crappy theories. xD smile


__________________
RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post May 2nd, 2015 08:10 AM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. SWTOR isn't canon, either, lol.

I know. But this thread considers Legends continuity since all characters featured in it (including Abeloth) are not part of Canon continuity.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Why would they not be immortal? They're entities of the Force, and this is actually confirmed. http://www.comicvine.com/profile/sh...-thread/102732/

Immortal beings do not die. Simple.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
There's also an accolade in there where they're stated to be all-powerful.

That is an out-of-context citation. Darth Plagueis narrates the ancient legend of Mortis in which The Ones are hyped as all-powerful. However, Darth Plagueis remained skeptical.

Even in Canon continuity, The Ones are not all-powerful.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
2. The Ones are evolved Celestials, essentially.

Based on?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
3. It doesn't fail to make sense just because you disagree with it. Read the passage - Abeloth unleashed that power subconsciously. In other words, it wasn't an active assault, nor was she at full power, so the feat doesn't compare.
Noted that Abeloth unleashed her power subconsciously. But she was in a state of anger and such emotions are known to fuel the power of the practitioners of the Dark Side.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
And the feat involved a Storm being summoned, not raw power rippling throughout the city.

Read this again: "a raging storm of pure Force energy"

What part of this statement you did not understand?

FYI: A natural storm doesn't unleashes Force energy. It is a manifestation of powerful winds.

For comparison, description of Abeloth's feat:

The entire city was attacked by a wind filled with glass shards, each a shikkar driven with a single purpose - to hurt anyone, anything, living inside the City of Glass. They were the Lost Tribe - they would suffer, all of them, as their leader had made her suffer.

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Ascension

Both are similar feats.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
4. It's laughable how you keep demanding proof from others, and when you run out of proof, you resort to dismissing another's argument as nonsense. It's hypocritical of you to be dismissing my point like that when you accuse me of the same thing. Concession accepted, though.

I don't concede to nonsense.

Read this:

By drawing on his incredible dark powers, the Emperor imprinted his consciousness onto unwitting pawns who would serve as vessels for carrying out his will. Through the eyes and ears of these "children," he would uncover threats in both the Empire and Republic while they were still nothing but whispers. And should the need arise, the Emperor could seize control of his children and instruct them to crush any plot that dared defy his will.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

As pointed out to you several times before, Children are 'powerful manifestations of sorcery' inside individuals. They are all potent.

As an example, when such manifestation was activated within Kira Carsen, she sent Hero of Tython packing with a Force push in a demonstration of strength. This strength was a product of sorcery within Kira Carsen, and not her own. In a normal situation, Kira Carsen cannot be expected to dominate Hero of Tython in comparable manner.

The above being said;

She would be opposed down to the final breath, the last drop of blood, of nearly every Jedi in the galaxy. And in that battle, even so ancient and powerful a being as Abeloth could not stand.

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Ascension

As I had been reiterating earlier; Vitiate + Children = too much for Abeloth. PERIOD.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
5. Luke destroying an avatar is like HoT beating an avatar. It's not a permanent kill by any means, which is what I'm referring to.

Abeloth apparently perished after loosing all of her avatars in confrontations with Jedi and Sith.

For this hypothetical versus scenario, how many avatars are you assuming? No conditions are defined.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
6. I think it's inferrable that the Sinkhole Station was responsible for the black holes, considering that they moved apart after it was destroyed.

Provide evidence.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
7. I know of all that. That doesn't show that he would be capable of diverting his strength to others whilst fighting Abeloth.

Vitiate, with his entire power concentrated on a single source, is likely to be too much for any being to cope with for a prolonged period. He can (single-handedly) break and kill on planetary-scale.

Assuming that Abeloth is somehow capable of coping with full concentrated attack of Vitiate, the latter have Darth Nihilus on his side who also happens to consume on planetary-scale and is a powerhouse in his own right. Darth Nihilus would drain enormous amount of energy from Abeloth, weakening her on each passing moment.

Abeloth cannot cope with the aforementioned pressures as apparent from her loss to the duo of Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt. She will loose.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
The Son wasn't trying to kill Obi-Wan, lol. If you're suggesting that Obi-Wan could actually last in a real fight, then I don't have anything to say. Otherwise, that doesn't show anything.

Son's powers are not all-powerful material - this is my intended point.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Abeloth eventually became the "Mother", and she received her powers from the same sources as the Son and Daughter. Her not being born as a Celestial is irrelevant, especially when Vitiate wasn't either.

Ok. But this doesn't changes a thing.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Really? Multiple sources in the RT above contradict that - the Son is stated to be the Personification of the Dark Side, and the Daughter was the embodiment of the Light Side. Lucas also claims the Father represents the Balance of the Force, a quote which I believe is even on Wookieepedia.

In the Legends continuity, Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious managed to disrupt the balance of the Force with a lengthy ritual. Do the math.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SunRazer
Legends sourcebooks reiterate the need for the Ones to go to Mortis. It's in the thread above. I refrain from posting quotes here unless absolutely necessary because I'm not used to the quotation system. At the moment, I just use speech marks. But here we go:

"Long ago, the Ones withdrew from the galaxy to avoid ruining it with their Force powers. "

- The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded

And of course, the Father's actual quote:

"My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other. Therefore, it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites."

"As a sanctuary?"

"And a prison. You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children… and realize that they could tear the very fabric of our universe."

I notice contradiction in these matters.

Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi series lore reveals that Abeloth and The Ones resided in the same planet simply known as Abeloth's World. When Abeloth formed, she forced The Ones to flee and seek refuge in Mortis, a mysterious realm which Abeloth may not be able to locate.

In these reliefs, Abeloth stood alone in the courtyard, watching the Father depart with the Son and Daughter. Her face was contorted in anger, and the air around her was whirling with fronds and jungle reptiles and lightning. In the panels that followed, she looked even more deranged. The courtyard was overrun with vegetation, and a large winged lizard was struggling to escape her grasp, its eyes wide with terror, it wings straining as it struggled to pull its foot out of her hand.

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on May 3rd, 2015 at 12:59 AM

Old Post May 3rd, 2015 12:56 AM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

One thing I agree with S_w Legend is the Mortis god bullshit.


__________________
RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post May 3rd, 2015 12:40 PM
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EmperorSidious2
Master of Magic

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Heavens of Mystic The Birth Place


 

Abeloth


__________________
Magic is Power

Old Post May 3rd, 2015 03:33 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Abeloth


Speaks the fanboyism or the reason behind your grasp,my Lord!?

Old Post May 4th, 2015 03:42 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arhael
Giving a lot of hard time to prime Luke despite help is above any combat feats done Vitiate and Nihilus. Nyax will just mind dominate them and make them his puppets wink.

Fact is that Luke Skywalker isn't so powerful as fans try to promote him.

Emperor Vitiate have stomped Strike Teams of Jedi and Sith; These Jedi and Sith are among the most powerful of their Orders respectively. And these accomplishments are among best confrontation-based showings in the mythos.

Your assertion that Lord Nyax will be able to telepathically dominate Vitiate is laughable. Vitiate is virtually immune to telepathic subjugation and have superior telepathic abilities then any Sith in the mythos. Vitiate have possessed individuals on planetary-scale and successfully reduced some of the strongest Jedi of the Order to his puppets (more then one at a time).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arhael
The only chance they have is using lightning against him, which he might simply not know how to defend against. But then again he might be able to tank it and only get angrier.

Vitiate and Nihilus have some of the most potent Force abilities among the practitioners of the Dark Side. They are much more likely to defeat Lord Nyax.

Old Post May 7th, 2015 02:47 PM
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Arhael
Devoid of reality

Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Lost in Space


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fact is that Luke Skywalker isn't so powerful as fans try to promote him.

Emperor Vitiate have stomped Strike Teams of Jedi and Sith; These Jedi and Sith are among the most powerful of their Orders respectively. And these accomplishments are among best confrontation-based showings in the mythos.

Your assertion that Lord Nyax will be able to telepathically dominate Vitiate is laughable. Vitiate is virtually immune to telepathic subjugation and have superior telepathic abilities then any Sith in the mythos. Vitiate have possessed individuals on planetary-scale and successfully reduced some of the strongest Jedi of the Order to his puppets (more then one at a time).


Vitiate and Nihilus have some of the most potent Force abilities among the practitioners of the Dark Side. They are much more likely to defeat Lord Nyax.

Appreciate your opinion. Nyax still impresses me more than Vitiate or Nihilus. Good day, sir.

Old Post May 7th, 2015 04:27 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: EARTH


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arhael
Appreciate your opinion. Nyax still impresses me more than Vitiate or Nihilus. Good day, sir.

If Lord Nyax impresses you more then a being who have ravaged planets, then I see an intellectual problem. No pun intended though.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD on May 7th, 2015 at 04:46 PM

Old Post May 7th, 2015 04:43 PM
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