Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
not metaphysics? neither are scales of infinity. they are mathematical certainties. and all universes are technically boundless, formless--ie., they are not boxes, so the analogy stands pretty firmly. but yeah, there is no reason whatsoever needed beyond it's comics.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
not really irrelevant in the sense that BOTH the examples cited--yours and mine--deal with a flash being at the heart of things.... in that issue, flash also actively and purposely transported himself to earth 2. i can can't what you're saying about that wonder woman issue, but as i was trying to say, the idea wasn't formalized until flash 123. which is why that issue is so important in dc's history and, imo, supports the notion that flash does indeed seem to be at the heart of things. ie, i don't see him being so important as forced. and that was my only issue with your earlier post.
Definitely. My only regret is Morrison not fitting the 5th dimension into the map. He did write the N52 AC arc where he introduced the 5th dimension, but for some reason never included it in the map. It would have been interesting to see where it stands compared to other realms/worlds/universes.
When i said forced, i was generally speaking, not necessarily because of the Flash #123 issue. Flash may have been at the center of things in those 2 instances, but he's not always at the center of it, or even most of the times. That title goes to Superman and Batman. Superman more-so. That's the reason why Flash never gained any sort of cosmic significance which Superman, Batman and even Diana (who, historically speaking, hasn't been that significant in the history of DCU major events) did, at the time period of IC. Even if we take Barry's discovery of the multiverse as genuine (which imo isn't, but let's say it is), Morrison literally nitpicked the two events where Flash was really at the center of things, and said that he "always" is at the center/heart of it all - which he isn't. That much i have no doubt.
Yeah, that baffled me as well. Especially when the 5th dimension was explicitly mentioned in the very first issue of Multiversity: (please log in to view the image)
And during the Pax Americana issue, Captain Adam mentioned 8 dimensions while he was reading Ultra Comics: (please log in to view the image)
So yeah, it seems rather odd that Morrison wouldn't include higher dimensional planes in his map, when he has personally mentioned them in this very event... Almost too odd, imo.
Regardless, there's still time to include the 5th dimension somewhere in his cosmology. Heck, Zrfff could end up being one of the 7 Unknown Worlds for all we know. /shrug
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
this isn't really the place to get into all of this, (we can continue to rehash dc history in a different thread all day if you want) so i'll just say that while yes, i agree superman has definitely been given greater cosmic significance (more than any character in any company has been given) morrison chose flash because it was flash who started the train moving. others may have done more later, but flash was key. barry's role in coie, obviously flashpoint, not to mention his role in bringing a series of parallel worlds to the fore and the metatextual groundwork fox laid which morrison has paralleled, even if strictly speaking it wasn't the first time it was done. we're nitpicking though. we both like what morrison has done, i think we both see the historical significance of why he chose flash--i just find the choice more....appropriate than you?
regardless, the series and ideas presented thus far have been awesome.
as for the missing dimensions--it's pretty tough to include EVERYTHING, especially in a flat representation. i wonder when the concept for the map was developed? maybe before he wrote the text for the series. possible that the map was just finished first and so a couple things were left out. could be the unknown worlds as well i guess. maybe the dimensions just kind of overlay some of the other places?
clearly there is too much--the map can NOT be perfect. still, cool as hell.
Once Convergence has concluded, I think DC will be restored to how it was before for the most part. With "Darkseid War" on the horizon, it will kind of have to be back to normal.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 3rd, 2015 at 06:36 PM
Here's some scans for the Monitor Watchstation aka The House of Heroes. Harbringer awakens from her sleep and explains to Superman and the others the dangers the Multiverse is facing.
If we see on the maps, the House of Heroes is right in the middle rotating through the Fifth Dimension within the Orrery of Worlds. I have 2 maps, 1 for the whole DCU and another for just the Orrery of Worlds.
Right, I know, but I thought they were bringing back pre-FP universes in that one event soon (Convergence?). Only made sense that the old universes would still be around.
Even if pre-FP WS is coming back in Convergence, you wouldn't find it in the multiversity guidebook (the scans which Galan posted) because the guidebook is restricted to featuring only the universes of the N52 continuity. You're basically looking in the wrong place.
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Feb 2nd, 2015 11:07 PM
