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Daredevil
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Arachnid1
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I finally finished. Great start to the season, weak ending. Everything up to episode 9 was great.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: The whole Hand/Black Sky plot fizzed out. Elektra is the terrible weapon centuries in the making that they've always worshipped? Why? Because she's bloodthirsty? So's Frank. I guess he's the Black Sky too. I was expecting some sort of mystic doomsday device. Lame reveal. Elektra herself wasn't that great either. She wasn't bad, but she wasn't stand out like Punisher or Kingpin. Thats not the Elektra I know. She seemed too childish and emotional. Not as cold, controlled, and terrifying as she usually is portrayed. She's more enjoyable if you think of her as an original character though. He death also didn't really have any huge weight to it either. We haven't known her long enough to leave any great mark, and its Elektra so anyone who knows anything about her knows she'd be back. It would have had more impact if they kllled her in the next season and gave Bullseye his big scene. This took a pretty big moment from him.

I also didn't like Murdock crossing the line and just deciding to murder. What happen to his entire speech to Castle? "You've lost people? So what? That doesn't give you the right to kill." Then he just tosses Nobu off of the rooftop. Nobu ended up being a weak villain too. Typical one dimensional ninja assassin.

The Blacksmith plot also ended up fizzing out. Weak end. They spent the entire season hyping up some great big conspiracy, but it just ended up being a crazy Colonel back from the war with his unit of killers for some reason and somehow selling the purest drugs on the market. And they killed Castles family because... he didn't want to sell drugs with them? This entire ending wasn't explained at all. I was expecting some huge Punisher villain to be revealed at the center of it all. A new crime syndicate lord like Jigsaw. That would have been a badass reveal, and could have led into Castles own series. Instead, it's a crazy war hero. Shoot him in the head, end of plot line. What a weak ending.

They never even explained what the deal was with the 40 story hole in the ground the Hands been digging. Wtf?

They also never explained why they were draining blood from the victims, or what they put inside of them. This never led anywhere.

We never learned Karens past that somehow made her identify with the Punisher.

Matts radar sense was also weirdly inconsistent. We've seen how he sees the world through his eyes in season 1. A world on fire, with sounds bouncing and radiating off surfaces. It doesn't matter if these ninjas can somehow stop their heart, he should be able to see them just fine. I mean, he was able to see the sword slashes on the wall when he went to save Karen, and thats an inanimate object. He was able to see Nobu just fine every time they've fought. Him not being able to sense the ninjas was weird and lame.

Kingpin somehow ended up being the best part of the season, again. Castle came in second place. Stick came in third. These three stole every scene they were in. Still, the main plot line was crap. Save all that mystic bull for Iron Fist and keep Daredevil grounded in the future IMO.

Another plus was the deteriorating relationship of Nelson, Murdock, and Page. This was actually pretty good drama. I remember one of these episodes being constant stress and hits from all sides on Murdock, and it actually felt claustrophobic. They did good here. Foggy was awesome. Paige wasn't bad, though she was annoying sometimes. All three of them together though, was great.


Despite episodes 4 and 9 being the best in the series, season 1 was better. It ended in a bang, were as this fizzed out. Here's to hoping next season centers on Fisk and Bullseye.


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Last edited by Arachnid1 on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 07:31 AM

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 07:19 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arachnid1
[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Matts radar sense was also weirdly inconsistent. We've seen how he sees the world through his eyes in season 1. A world on fire, with sounds bouncing and radiating off surfaces. It doesn't matter if these ninjas can somehow stop their heart, he should be able to see them just fine. I mean, he was able to see the sword slashes on the wall when he went to save Karen, and thats an inanimate object. He was able to see Nobu just fine every time they've fought. Him not being able to sense the ninjas was weird and lame.


I had a huge problem with this as well. In season 1 [SPOILER - highlight to read]: he could detect things like bone shifts, and even smell when a guy had cancer. So Hand ninjas can now move without actually moving their bones, and have internal organs that smell like... nothing? He could even detect changes in electrical and air currents etc. but these guys can hide? And the breathing thing was dumb, as Matt already took note of people's breathing in season 1, like when he mentioned to Foggy that he can tell when he is about to talk by changes in his breathing pattern.

So yeah, the Hand guys being able to hide from his senses was nothing but PIS, so that he would initially have some trouble with them, and then have his "expand your senses" moment with Stick later on, and then beat the shit out of them.


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Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 09:53 AM

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 09:44 AM
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Inhuman
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What about if the ninjas couldn't be detected because of [SPOILER - highlight to read]: mysticism


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 04:47 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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laughing

Then [SPOILER - highlight to read]: mysticism kinda sucks considering it was countered by some old guy tied to a chair. stick out tongue


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 04:53 PM
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Nephthys
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I don't think it's fair to complain about them not explaining things. They're obviously leaving those things for later as ongoing mysteries.

Also [SPOILER - highlight to read]: The Hand ninjas are ****ing zombies, I believe they could be screwed up enough not to be detectable by Matt. Or using some magic to cloak them or something.


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Last edited by Nephthys on Mar 23rd, 2016 at 05:11 PM

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 05:08 PM
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Ushgarak
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The structural problem with S2 is pretty simple- it was two stories trying to play simultaneously but with Daredevil rooted in both, so he kept having to run around between two unconnected plots. They can't have two simultaenous finales with the same person so one has to fizzle. They should have had one plot end definitely mid-season and then gone full-on with the other. That weird and awkward way in which [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Punisher cameos in the final fight for no real good reason and for no dramatic effect other than to give him a quick goodbye illustrates the disconnect.

S1's slow reveal was much better- actually, I really liked S1 because, despite using a lot of Joss Whedon writer,s it went toally against the Whedon method of having the bad guy win all season and then somehow lose it all by some miracle in the finale. Instead, we saw Daredevil take apart Fisk's organisation piece by piece and we saw the bad guys becoming increasingly worried about him- and reacting accordingly, sometimes causing Daredevil intense physical or moral issues. The crescendo not only reflected the culmination of the fight against Fisk but also the culmination of Matt's moral issues.

The only way the S2 finale was better is in terms of pure physical spectacle- which is not to be sneered at. Much as Fisk is a great character, I never had reason to believe he could take Daredevil in a one-on-one fight (where DD was not already beaten to crap first), so the final fight there lacked a certain tension.

On the other hand, [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Nobo is double hard and makes for a good end series boss


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 05:23 PM
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wakkawakkawakka
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Still think that the later parts of this season could've been saved for Season 3.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: So is the Hand Ninjas were really zombies then how is Nobu able to conceal his presence the same way...was he a ninja zombie too?

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 05:25 PM
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Ushgarak
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If you told me specifically that [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Nobu could mystically silence his whole body, I think I'd be ok with that.

I do agree though- DD's sonar sense is becoming something powered purely by plot, working or not working as demanded by the plot that week. Consistency would be nicer.


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 05:27 PM
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|King Joker|
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arachnid1
I finally finished. Great start to the season, weak ending. Everything up to episode 9 was great.

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: The whole Hand/Black Sky plot fizzed out. Elektra is the terrible weapon centuries in the making that they've always worshipped? Why? Because she's bloodthirsty? So's Frank. I guess he's the Black Sky too. I was expecting some sort of mystic doomsday device. Lame reveal. Elektra herself wasn't that great either. She wasn't bad, but she wasn't stand out like Punisher or Kingpin. Thats not the Elektra I know. She seemed too childish and emotional. Not as cold, controlled, and terrifying as she usually is portrayed. She's more enjoyable if you think of her as an original character though. He death also didn't really have any huge weight to it either. We haven't known her long enough to leave any great mark, and its Elektra so anyone who knows anything about her knows she'd be back. It would have had more impact if they kllled her in the next season and gave Bullseye his big scene. This took a pretty big moment from him.

I also didn't like Murdock crossing the line and just deciding to murder. What happen to his entire speech to Castle? "You've lost people? So what? That doesn't give you the right to kill." Then he just tosses Nobu off of the rooftop. Nobu ended up being a weak villain too. Typical one dimensional ninja assassin.

The Blacksmith plot also ended up fizzing out. Weak end. They spent the entire season hyping up some great big conspiracy, but it just ended up being a crazy Colonel back from the war with his unit of killers for some reason and somehow selling the purest drugs on the market. And they killed Castles family because... he didn't want to sell drugs with them? This entire ending wasn't explained at all. I was expecting some huge Punisher villain to be revealed at the center of it all. A new crime syndicate lord like Jigsaw. That would have been a badass reveal, and could have led into Castles own series. Instead, it's a crazy war hero. Shoot him in the head, end of plot line. What a weak ending.

They never even explained what the deal was with the 40 story hole in the ground the Hands been digging. Wtf?

They also never explained why they were draining blood from the victims, or what they put inside of them. This never led anywhere.

We never learned Karens past that somehow made her identify with the Punisher.

Matts radar sense was also weirdly inconsistent. We've seen how he sees the world through his eyes in season 1. A world on fire, with sounds bouncing and radiating off surfaces. It doesn't matter if these ninjas can somehow stop their heart, he should be able to see them just fine. I mean, he was able to see the sword slashes on the wall when he went to save Karen, and thats an inanimate object. He was able to see Nobu just fine every time they've fought. Him not being able to sense the ninjas was weird and lame.

Kingpin somehow ended up being the best part of the season, again. Castle came in second place. Stick came in third. These three stole every scene they were in. Still, the main plot line was crap. Save all that mystic bull for Iron Fist and keep Daredevil grounded in the future IMO.

Another plus was the deteriorating relationship of Nelson, Murdock, and Page. This was actually pretty good drama. I remember one of these episodes being constant stress and hits from all sides on Murdock, and it actually felt claustrophobic. They did good here. Foggy was awesome. Paige wasn't bad, though she was annoying sometimes. All three of them together though, was great.


Despite episodes 4 and 9 being the best in the series, season 1 was better. It ended in a bang, were as this fizzed out. Here's to hoping next season centers on Fisk and Bullseye.
thumb up


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 06:14 PM
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Inhuman
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
laughing

Then [SPOILER - highlight to read]: mysticism kinda sucks considering it was countered by some old guy tied to a chair. stick out tongue


Stick is also [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Mystic


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 07:11 PM
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Impediment
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The final episode of season 2 was good, but it was also kinda "meh".

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Punisher's final scene was such a letdown for me.


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 07:40 PM
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Ridley_Prime
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Finally finished S2, without binge watching like I assume a lot here did. After doing so with Jessica Jones, guess I felt too burned out to try and do that with this.

Wasn't sure at first how to feel about the one who was Walking Dead's Shane being the Punisher, but the more I saw him the more it became clear that he was a great casting choice for Frank. thumb up And yeah, as pointed out, the ending was pretty much the weakest part (even pulled a certain cliche I saw coming), though don't think the season suffers that much for it, but because of it and certain things, I guess I reluctantly have to say I liked the 1st season overall more too.


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 08:49 PM
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queeq
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
If you told me specifically that [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Nobu could mystically silence his whole body, I think I'd be ok with that.


I wouldn't. Part of the sonar bit is that it's about reflecting surfaces. I doubt The Hand are ghosts... I mean, they can be hit by fists or weapons. So why not by sound waves?

In the beginning of season 2, Murdock 'hears' that Castle has military equipment when he's tied to the chimney. Now, I'd buy that Murdock can kinda 'hear' what's in those cases, but I don't buy he can't hear bodies approaching without hearts... Even they must make the minutest sound with their feet.


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 08:56 PM
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Ushgarak
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Yeah but [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Nobu is also immortal. He does magical, logic-defying stuff. So being sound-invisible is fine


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Old Post Mar 23rd, 2016 09:46 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Impediment
The final episode of season 2 was good, but it was also kinda "meh".

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: Punisher's final scene was such a letdown for me.


I think most people were hoping that [SPOILER - highlight to read]: after finding the minigun, Frank would use it at the end of the film to mow down like 50 Hand ninjas, but he never even fires it once. I mean you even see his fingers twitch when he finds it, so him not using it was disappointing.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2016 03:49 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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I meant show in my previous post. No idea why I wrote film.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2016 04:13 AM
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Arachnid1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Yeah but [SPOILER - highlight to read]: Nobu is also immortal. He does magical, logic-defying stuff. So being sound-invisible is fine
But he wasn't sound invisible. Matt was able to hear his heart beat faintly in season 1, and see him find when they fought. In fact, Matt saw him every time they fought, unlike the ninjas


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2016 04:53 AM
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queeq
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All the ninja's were [SPOILER - highlight to read]: 'sound invisible'. And they breathed... so why couldn't he hear that before?

Use, you said something about his abilities being used to serve the plot. I think you're right. It also kinda makes Matt kind of... unstable.

When he fights the [SPOILER - highlight to read]: ninja's the first couple of times, he can fight them allright after they revealed themselves. But once in the [SPOILER - highlight to read]: abandoned tunnels and in the engine room or whatever he can't, but he can hear Stick whisper to him from another room .

I think they should work out Matt's abilities a bit more. Wouldn't make him look like such a loser all the time.

And wow... D'Onofrio sure delivers the greatest Kingpin of all time. There gave him a good character and he sure delivers. Best thing of the series.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2016 07:47 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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Location: A vault... duh...

One thing I failed to mention earlier, which I think was a good touch in the series, was how the themes with regards to Punisher/Daredevil, and the whole vigilante thing as a whole, relates to the themes in Civil War, if on a smaller scale. This is a post-New York/Washington/Sokovia world, so people have seen how bad things can potentially get. I feel it adds extra gravity to the premise of Civil War, as you now even have these lower level guys emerging and starting to take things into their hands, arguably partly as a bi-product of the actions of the Avengers etc.


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Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Mar 24th, 2016 at 07:54 AM

Old Post Mar 24th, 2016 07:51 AM
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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Arachnid1
But he wasn't sound invisible. Matt was able to hear his heart beat faintly in season 1, and see him find when they fought. In fact, Matt saw him every time they fought, unlike the ninjas


Maybe he's upped his game, and maybe he has to concentrate on it in a way not practical in a full on fight. I'm just saying that logic-breaking with Nobu is fine- he's unrealistic by default.


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"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 24th, 2016 08:08 AM
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