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Loki vs The Thing
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eaebiakuya
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Thing Can be stronger, But Loki is more durable and is far faster. Stoic said well about speed. I think Loki wins because Speed.

Old Post Feb 12th, 2015 12:47 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That's not how that works at all.
The class system was based on them lifting those tons above their heads from before it really mattered. It's not a power scale. It's a literal measurement of tonnage.
It just never got refined for the unfortunate age of internet debating purposes.

Your gripes have the same merit as complaining that Thor shouldn't be a class 100 because Galactus is a class 100.
It's not an accurate measurement except from the people who orbit that strength gap, and it never has been. It doesn't need to be adapted to fit into people like Thor. It needs to be forgotten altogether at that stage.

Although, if your issue is with it putting Thing on the same wavelength of Thor, then how is 80 any better when it stops becoming tons? What Thing is only 20 off of Thor? Thor's just a 5th stronger than him? Thor is 100, but he's 100 and something on the scale that isn't tons anymore? How does this make more sense? How accurate.


That's not how it works for Marvel, because Marvel doesn't follow logic. Around most debate boards? The class 100 system works just like I said. No, Thing ain't a Class 100, not if Superman and Thor also are.

It's irrelevant to this topic though and technically there really isn't a right or wrong answer. Thing is still far above Loki physically.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Thing Can be stronger, But Loki is more durable and is far faster. Stoic said well about speed. I think Loki wins because Speed.


This makes no sense. The strength gap is too bag for this to matter. People are acting as if Loki is the Flash. Seriously, what is it with people and Loki? First people try to say he compares physically to Thor, now the guy is some massive speedster? I'm not getting it. What do you feel his speed allows him to accomplish? Is Loki punching Ben 1,000 times before he blinks? How much force do you feel Loki on average can hit with?


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Last edited by Surtur on Feb 12th, 2015 at 05:11 PM

Old Post Feb 12th, 2015 05:08 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
That's not how it works for Marvel, because Marvel doesn't follow logic. Around most debate boards? The class 100 system works just like I said. No, Thing ain't a Class 100, not if Superman and Thor also are.

It's irrelevant to this topic though and technically there really isn't a right or wrong answer. Thing is still far above Loki physically.



This makes no sense. The strength gap is too bag for this to matter. People are acting as if Loki is the Flash. Seriously, what is it with people and Loki? First people try to say he compares physically to Thor, now the guy is some massive speedster? I'm not getting it. What do you feel his speed allows him to accomplish? Is Loki punching Ben 1,000 times before he blinks? How much force do you feel Loki on average can hit with?
DC doesn't even have an official class 100 system though because it doesn't give a shit about it. It's a Marvel term. Just like herald is. The class 100 was adopted by shit like Marvel's old cards and the like. Where it's exactly like I said. This is pretty much the source of it
(please log in to view the image)

Any use of it is a severe fan manipulation that makes entirely no sense for anything about Thing level on forums. Also notice Thor being above the class 50-100 range in the source.

There's no logical way to use it when you compare Thing and Superman, and the sharp incline towards the top isn't very logical either. You might as well just put Thing at a 1 and Superman at 100 if you can't adequately explain how much it rises up when you hit the top.

And using class 100 using it to describe tons and acknowledging someone could lift that, but still putting them at class 80 makes no sense at all. Just because Superman exists that doesn't mean the description of it should bend around him.

Also Thor and Superman aren't a class 100 if Eternity is. What a great rating system to use for characters on that level.

lol at Marvel not following logic yet defending this as a legitimate scale based on some fan abortion of it.

Also I agree it's irrelevant. Just like Superman is here. For whatever reason he was mentioned in the first place. It doesn't matter if you're going to persist to use it though.


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Old Post Feb 12th, 2015 07:00 PM
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eaebiakuya
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quote: (post)


This makes no sense. The strength gap is too bag for this to matter. People are acting as if Loki is the Flash. Seriously, what is it with people and Loki? First people try to say he compares physically to Thor, now the guy is some massive speedster? I'm not getting it. What do you feel his speed allows him to accomplish? Is Loki punching Ben 1,000 times before he blinks? How much force do you feel Loki on average can hit with? [/B]


First: i dont think the strengh gap is big.

Second: Being a bit less faster and more durable is enough to win a fight (also being far smarter). Loki dodged a Mjolnir throw more than one time. You need a decent speed to do that.

Old Post Feb 12th, 2015 08:09 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
DC doesn't even have an official class 100 system though because it doesn't give a shit about it. It's a Marvel term. Just like herald is. The class 100 was adopted by shit like Marvel's old cards and the like. Where it's exactly like I said. This is pretty much the source of it
(please log in to view the image)

Any use of it is a severe fan manipulation that makes entirely no sense for anything about Thing level on forums. Also notice Thor being above the class 50-100 range in the source.

There's no logical way to use it when you compare Thing and Superman, and the sharp incline towards the top isn't very logical either. You might as well just put Thing at a 1 and Superman at 100 if you can't adequately explain how much it rises up when you hit the top.

And using class 100 using it to describe tons and acknowledging someone could lift that, but still putting them at class 80 makes no sense at all. Just because Superman exists that doesn't mean the description of it should bend around him.

Also Thor and Superman aren't a class 100 if Eternity is. What a great rating system to use for characters on that level.

lol at Marvel not following logic yet defending this as a legitimate scale based on some fan abortion of it.

Also I agree it's irrelevant. Just like Superman is here. For whatever reason he was mentioned in the first place. It doesn't matter if you're going to persist to use it though.


Christ dude, I never said anything was legitimate. I was just going off the way I see the term used, I've seen it applied to all characters, not just Marvel ones. When I talk about the thing not being a class 100, I'm essentially saying doing it that way is better then nothing if you are going to bother to use the term at all.

Yes, you pointing out Superman and Thor aren't Class 100's if Eternity is does show the flaw. Thing is, cosmics like that, it doesn't matter much though. When you get down to non cosmics I think it's different. It's not perfect, nobody claimed it was. It just seems very odd to call Thing a Class 100. As for why Superman was mentioned, it's quite simple: he's a character most people know and thus easy to use as a benchmark, it's nothing more then that.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2015 06:47 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
First: i dont think the strengh gap is big.

Second: Being a bit less faster and more durable is enough to win a fight (also being far smarter). Loki dodged a Mjolnir throw more than one time. You need a decent speed to do that.


The strength gap is that big though. Please show me Loki handling objects the size The Thing has, with the same level of consistency. "He fought Thor and and hit him" isn't a legit argument considering the feats Thor has done. So mentioning him is basically saying you feel Loki is just a Class 100 and just never decides to ever show it except when he fights Thor.

Being a bit less faster and more durable is enough to win if you have a way to harm your opponent. Loki does not, Thing has slugged it out with people a lot stronger, and Loki is going to go down before Thing does. Loki dodged a throw from Thors hammer. How fast do you feel this makes Loki? The hammer can technically travel at FTL speeds at its height. So, are you saying Loki reacts at FTL speeds?

If not, how fast is Loki? Can Loki speedblitz people? Is he Spiderman level? Faster?


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2015 06:51 PM
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psycho gundam
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^ Class 100 is from 100 tons up to incalculable.

Classically, Hulk can be all throughout that class: calm state (100 tons), Banner-Hulk braces mountain (150,000,000,000 tons) and then the crazy stuff that goes beyond still falls under class 100


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2015 07:11 PM
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One Big Mob
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Christ dude, I never said anything was legitimate. I was just going off the way I see the term used, I've seen it applied to all characters, not just Marvel ones. When I talk about the thing not being a class 100, I'm essentially saying doing it that way is better then nothing if you are going to bother to use the term at all.

Yes, you pointing out Superman and Thor aren't Class 100's if Eternity is does show the flaw. Thing is, cosmics like that, it doesn't matter much though. When you get down to non cosmics I think it's different. It's not perfect, nobody claimed it was. It just seems very odd to call Thing a Class 100. As for why Superman was mentioned, it's quite simple: he's a character most people know and thus easy to use as a benchmark, it's nothing more then that.
Right, and I'm just saying the term is useless used the right way or the incorrect way once you factor in the Thors or the Supermans. Even in the original, Thor was in the incalculable range above the class 100 system.

The term only works when it's applied to Thing level and below. Is all. Once it starts being applied to Superman and Thor, it loses all credibility. There's better ways to measure things. Hell even making up class 1000s and shit would provide a more reliable measurement.

Using that system the right way however would put Thing and Superman in the same class so...


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Last edited by One Big Mob on Feb 13th, 2015 at 07:16 PM

Old Post Feb 13th, 2015 07:13 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ Class 100 is from 100 tons up to incalculable.

Classically, Hulk can be all throughout that class: calm state (100 tons), Banner-Hulk braces mountain (150,000,000,000 tons) and then the crazy stuff that goes beyond still falls under class 100


I know, but that is the Marvel way of doing the Class system. What I'm talking about is..a mutated version of that, which tries to make it a bit easier to peg a character. It's..eh, well, I can see it is going to be a thing and the Class system isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.

Suffice to say Thing, whatever class he is pegged at, is quite superior to Loki.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2015 07:15 PM
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juggernaut74
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Tony Stark
Ben was a confirmed CL100 in the Avengers Initiative
Wasn't he shown to be maxed out at 85 tons recently?


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2015 08:58 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Wasn't he shown to be maxed out at 85 tons recently?
Without looking anything up, that was She Hulk. And Thing wanted to have a race to 100 tons iirc.
He was also teaching the toddlers how to deal with class 100s by fighting him.

And like none of his fights would even limit him to 85 tons anyway. Even if it was his max it would be irrelevant unless he were picking rubble off him.


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2015 09:16 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
I'd give him roughly class 90-100 range. He has given Thor trouble in the past, and Thor has walked all over the Abomination. Loki is simply never portrayed as the muscle guy because he has more to rely on than just brute strength.
Loki is around a class 40. If he ever gave Thor problems in the strength dept then it was simply a very low showing for Thor. But what comic are you referring to? Cause I remember Thor physically dominating Loki A LOT. Thor even one shotted him before.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2015 12:49 AM
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Stoic
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I know, but that is the Marvel way of doing the Class system. What I'm talking about is..a mutated version of that, which tries to make it a bit easier to peg a character. It's..eh, well, I can see it is going to be a thing and the Class system isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.

Suffice to say Thing, whatever class he is pegged at, is quite superior to Loki.


Why are you saying that Loki is so inferior to the Thing when you saw the scan of him slapping the Eric Masterson version of Thor out? Are you just ignoring that? I also said earlier that you should ignore the handbook entries for many of these characters, because Spiderman alone has lifted more than 50 tons. You are also basing this fight solely on strength when there are far more things that go into settling fights than pure strength. Speed and agility also play a part, as well as general combat ability. Loki is an experienced combatant. You also don't see Thanos walking around regularly lifting up weights that fall into planet weights either, but we know that he is stronger than Thor.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2015 01:07 AM
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Loki is good, but let's stop focusing on those high feats (like slapping Eric) SO much.

I mean, it took Spider-Man, Spider Woman and Hawkeye to restrain Wolverine - doesn't make him Class 30 all of a sudden.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2015 01:14 AM
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When did masterson beat gladiator?


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2015 01:41 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sin I AM
When did masterson beat gladiator?

Attachment: mastersonthorvsgladiator8.jpg
This has been downloaded 80 time(s).


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2015 02:37 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
Why are you saying that Loki is so inferior to the Thing when you saw the scan of him slapping the Eric Masterson version of Thor out? Are you just ignoring that? I also said earlier that you should ignore the handbook entries for many of these characters, because Spiderman alone has lifted more than 50 tons. You are also basing this fight solely on strength when there are far more things that go into settling fights than pure strength. Speed and agility also play a part, as well as general combat ability. Loki is an experienced combatant. You also don't see Thanos walking around regularly lifting up weights that fall into planet weights either, but we know that he is stronger than Thor.


To be honest I am ignoring that, mostly because him slapping down Thor is nonsense.

Thanos has consistently shown to be on the level of Class 100's, Loki has not. If Loki was routinely presented as being on that high a level of strength that would be one thing, but that isn't the case, hence why I ignored the feat you mentioned.


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Old Post Feb 14th, 2015 03:46 PM
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h1a8
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Stoic
Why are you saying that Loki is so inferior to the Thing when you saw the scan of him slapping the Eric Masterson version of Thor out? Are you just ignoring that? I also said earlier that you should ignore the handbook entries for many of these characters, because Spiderman alone has lifted more than 50 tons. You are also basing this fight solely on strength when there are far more things that go into settling fights than pure strength. Speed and agility also play a part, as well as general combat ability. Loki is an experienced combatant. You also don't see Thanos walking around regularly lifting up weights that fall into planet weights either, but we know that he is stronger than Thor.
characters strength fluctuates from comic to comic. Thanos is not stronger than Thor when Thor is operating at millions of tons or more.


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Old Post Feb 15th, 2015 01:16 AM
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lol


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Old Post Feb 15th, 2015 01:34 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Whole fight? I honestly can't remember him beating glads straight up


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Old Post Feb 15th, 2015 05:24 AM
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