Now, now. Let's be serious here. This isn't a trolling thread. :-p
IMO, Surfer's "feat" blows Superman's away in the sheer specificity of it as well as the time it took. Also, his "feat" is indisputable as it is supported by the narration.
Superman's "feat", with all due respect, requires a bit of logic stretching of rather vague character statements, has poor specifity and makes no mention of the time it took for him to "hear" the multiverse. Actually, the low specifity of Superman's "feat" alone actually makes Surfer's "feat" far more impressive. It isn't all about range you know.
The Hubble can "see" the "observable universe" simply by "seeing light". The same way that Superman can "hear" the "multiverse" by "hearing vibrations".
Now, take Surfer's "feat". What device can instantly find any one specific thing you want even within a planetary range? Orders of magnitude, dude.
Fact is, we can always see much much much further than we can find things.
Last edited by Nibedicus on Feb 24th, 2015 at 04:06 AM
Da ****? You are arbitrarily taking out Superman's feat because it took "some" time when it's not the case at all. He just heard the sound from the whole multiverse and that "EVERYTHING" is just vibrations. Then he picked out a specific frequency to cancel out Darkseid in one panel. How is that ambiguous or time taking?
And how do we even know that what surfer picked was the best ice cream anyway? How do you define the best ice cream anyway because it's totally subjective to someone's tastes.
And Superman's feat is indisputable since it's backed by y'know actual action and the story.
"The worlds of the multiverse vibrate together, Darkseid...and make this sound, like an orchestra."
Is an explanation of how the multiverse works. There is no indication that he was listening to the universe right that second. He was hearing Darkseid's vibrations. Sure. I really, really doubt he heard it all just that second.
And Darkseid was right in front of him. It's not too hard picking out an instrument in an orchestra if the player is sitting right in front of you. Again, great range, low specificity.
When a scientist explains that "the universe is mostly empty space", he is not exactly looking at the universe just that second. He knows from previous knowledge via experimentation/observation (that took an unspecified amount of time) that the universe works that way and he is simply explaning it to you.
Essentially, this is how it looks to me.
-Superman knows that the worlds of the multiverse vibrate. From prior knowledge or thru simple inference. If the multiverse DOES vibrate and sound like an orchestra, and you can pick up on it, it would be hard to ignore it really...
-Superman explains this fact to Darkseid.
-Via this concept, Superman "hears" Darkseid's vibration and composes a counter vibration to cancel it out.
And even if we take your interpretation of it (which is disputable, tbh). The sheer specificity of Norrin's "feat" easily trumps Superman's.
As for Norrin finding the best ice cream in the universe:
Narration > all. Especially narration as specific as this that is also backed by character statements the page prior. There is zero room for misinterpretation here. He found the greatest ice cream in the universe, no ifs and buts about it.
As for the "subjectiveness", he could have either scanned Dawn's tastes (which is most likely) and located the greatest ice cream in the universe for it. I'll not go and take "greatest ice cream in the universe" to its extreme literal interpretation as it would blow this "feat" way out of proportion. But if I did, it would rape Superman's "feat" prison style. So I'll not go there.
EVERYTHING is just vibrations. Your attempts to wave the feat away are ridiculous.
And here we go again. I'm not interested in your "Let's nitpick every feat to death" routine with nothing but "Eh, I doubt it".
Superman hearing the vibrations of entire multiverse is simply better than surfer's "feat".
That's just a comedic scene. And no explanation to "why" it was the best ice cream and how surfer determined it. But we are supposed to nitpick Superman's feat to death. And no, narration doesn't always trumps in such hyperbolic situations. I can show you narration stating that no force in universe can stop a punch from Superman. Doesn't means much.
You are essentially saying that universal scale>multiversal scale and precision.
I have no idea why everyone is so hung up on Superman, and the Surfer? Heimdal takes a giant crap on the both of them combined. This guy can see through dimensions. Imagine if he was looking for you while you were in the john? Seriously though, Angela needed mystical armor to hide from him, while in another dimension recently.
Exactly. The universe/multiverse is just vibrations. You don't have to sense the entire multiverse in seconds to know this. And you don't have to sense the entire universe when you know this and tell it to someone. Proves my point perfectly, actually.
Don't really have a choice in the whole "nitpicking", dude. It just seems like you take some HUGE liberties in your interpretation sometimes. Now if you're right, you're right. But please pardon me if I state my interpretation of the scene as well.
Disagree. Even basing it on your loose interpretation, simply hearing the sound/vibration of the multiverse in its totality does not trump locating one specific thing within a universe. My Hubble example explains this perfectly.
Except that "no force in the universe" have been disproven on panel multiple times as there has been forces in the universe that has stopped him. Thus proving its hyperbole. In this case, Surfer was given a SPECIFIC TASK with a specific means of achieving it. He was to find the literally "the greatest ice cream in the universe" and he was to use his cosmic sense to do it. We know he set off to accomplish this task and the narrative confirms that he accomplished it. There is little room for interpretation here and there is little room for hyperbole as well.
No, I am saying that we can always see/sense far far far far further than we can find/pick out. See: Hubble example.
Wish I had the latest Angela scans to show you, but he was used to track her from dimension to dimension with Thor, and the Warriors Three. Heimdall's sensory powers are probably very close to a Watcher's.
You are taking "heard the vibrations" of the whole multiverse as if it's a small deal. It isn't and it just shows how desperate you are.
And what is this "needs to" crap? Superman heard the multiverse and thus he realized EVERYTHING is just vibrations. Not the other way around.
And no, you are just nitpicking it because that's what you always do against any superman feat. I don't see you doing it against any other character. I wonder why?
Just as surfer's universal range senses have failed several times. You are again taking surfer's feat at face value and taking the opposite for Superman's feat.
And Superman didn't see the vibrations of the multiverse. Your analogy is faulty as always. Have fun with the nitpicking though.
About as normal as someone who uses his eyes to melt stuff. It's Super hearing taken to its absurd levels. Not a small deal. And I don't recall ever saying that it was...
I'm sure throughout his lifetime the orchestraic song of the multiverse came to him and made him deduce how everything worked. It just didn't happen right this second as he's explaining it to Darkseid. More likely that he understood this concept and used it to come up with the idea to use counter vibrations against Darkseid.
It's a classic comicbook storytelling technique. Hero/villain uses absurd comicbook logic/physics/magic/etc to peform an amazing act. But in order for the reader to understand how he did it, hero/villain first explains the science/logic behind it.
Dude. You came into my thread with the "feat". I disagree with it and you say I'm always against your Superman "feats"? What, we're not allowed to discuss our interpretation of comics/scans in threads we make anymore?
Well, one is pretty much cut and dry and the other requires one to take huge liberties in interpretation to make it plausible.
Um, the difference is that I (and the comic) never said that his senses were infallible. Unlike your narration stating Superman was unstoppable. Has anything stopped Superman before? Yes? Hyperbole.
Surfer found the "greatest ice cream in the universe". The only hyperbole you can possibly complain about is how "greatest" the ice cream is. Not the universe part as the story is very specific about it.
Now if you can find proof that there is indeed a greater ice cream out there in the MU, I will agree about the ice cream hyperbole part. Tho, I don't see how it can help your argument any.
Yeah, he heard it. That's why I included "sense".
Last edited by Nibedicus on Feb 24th, 2015 at 09:19 AM
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