Lol. Ok. Let's use other showings of Ares (NOBODY WAS CLINGING TO ONE SHOWING).
How many Peter punches equal one Voiding Sentry? Ares wasn't KO'd. How many Mikaboshi punches? Ares wasn't KO'd. Skaar?
How many Peter punches equal a missile to the face? You see, in his short publication history, Ares has quite a few feats. The Herc is but one.
NOBODY was dismissing Peter's feats. Just answer the question.... How many Peter punches woukd it take to KO Ares, consistent, cumulative ones, considering Skaar, A bomb, Sentry (pissed and out for the kill), and Herc couldn't?
I surely don't have all of Ares appearances, but I thought he fought Hercules a bunch of times. I know he's not as strong, but the guy seems to be pretty durable. I don't believe its a low showing for Hercules either as Ares has taken shots from other top tiers and came out of them just fine. Its the durability that's impressive to me and would cause Spiderman the biggest issues. If Ares can take numerous shots from people like Hercules and Sentry, I have a hard time imagining Spiderman taking him out. Just my opinion.
I didn't look at any scans, but did Spiderman actually hurt Creel? I hate to bring up piss poor writing, but if he did,,,,,
Minutes or less? Yikes.
I thought Hercules was indeed mad and trying to kill due to being infected by the hydra blood. I could be totally wrong and somebody please correct me if I have my events mixed up.
I'm not arguing with you pal, I'm just posting my opinion the same as you are. I'm just not sure we are going to agree on this one.
He was pretty damn mad, though the blood had been burnt out of his system. Nowhere was it stated he was holding back, though, lol. Also, that missile he tanked with his face wasn't holding back.
That's actually a fairly good way of thinking, however.
We know bullets are harder than Spiderman's skin. To the point his SS continuously warns him NOT to get in the way of bullets. This is an inarguable fact: Spidey is NOT bulletproof.
We DO know, however, that Ares is most assuredly bulletproof. Ares is harder than bullets - bullets from .50 cal tank guns, no less (that was what War Machine had assimilated into himself and was firing at Ares). So not even handguns or submachine guns, which is what SPidey avoids like the plague.
So Ares > bullets >>> Spidey. And bullets do not hold back.
Here is Ares tanking THREE missiles, and all he says is 'ow'.
No. I was asking for examples about Pete webbing people up and slamming them into the environment to gauge the probability of this tactic in general, because modifying it to slamming an opponent into the ground could be an argument. If he's done similar a bunch of times.
I brought-up that you hadn't given any examples of him doing this either before I pointed-out it's a featureless environment or after, when you modified the tactic. But that wasn't crucifying you over the mistake, it was pointing-out no examples to prove what could be a viable tactic.
The other stuff about you not admitting the featureless environment part was separate and about why it was odd for you to bring it up again. Not continuing to pound you over that.
I wasn't exactly hinting. Spider-Man isn't the only one who has examples that are beyond his norm. Pete is one of the few characters to be popular enough to have simultaneously had multiple titles at once, so of course there's going to be a lot of examples in pure numbers. Relative to his appearances? Probably not so much.
I'm going mostly off memory, but Tiger Shark and Goliath/Atlas were supposed to be class 100(someone more familiar can confirm or refute). You can clearly be a Top-Tier brick and still below Hercules, but that doesn't mean they're as far off as you're trying to argue. And you keep ignoring how Hercules was compromised from the get-go when he came into that fight. Then he was beaten when already unconscious. It is not a valid comparison dude.
You keep saying that people are clinging to one showing for Ares despite others have been cited(you could say it's his best, but it's certainly not the only example in that range), but you're ignoring the context of the Hercules beating at the same time.
__________________ Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
Last edited by Delta1938 on Feb 27th, 2015 at 10:34 AM
lol Sweet! It is the recognition that I deserve.. and the one that I neeeed...
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As for the fight.. hard to tell as i'm no expert on Ares, I do believe that the God of War should beat a street level character. Thing is I also believe that the God of War is supposed to be a match for Marvel's top heralds. And that's far from the impression I got by looking at Ares' showings. I will withhold my judgement for now. However, I can try to make an argument in Spider-man's defense. I do believe that Peter is capable of eventually causing damage to Ares with his strikes. First reason - he's a class 10-20 who is consistently shown to perform feats outside of his strength level when pissed. So consistently that this ability was at one point mentioned in his actual bio. And those feats include causing damage to the likes of Thing, Namor, Iron Man etc. Second reason - in comics an ability to withstand class 100 punches does not make one immune to less powerful attacks. For instance we won't see Logan no-selling 50 punches from Luke Cage because we saw him tank few hits from Hulk, even though Cage is nowhere near Hulk's strength. Then there are cosmic beings like Silver Surfer who can travel through black holes and so logically shouldn't even flinch at attacks from say Thing and Colossus. But we know it is never the case in comics. My two cents.
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Last edited by SamZED on Feb 27th, 2015 at 11:53 AM
Bad analogy with Wolvy, btw - mainly because of his HF , but I take your point. I guess that's why I brought up the Herc showing, and am focussing on that one - NOT because it is his sole high showing (as Stoic says), but because it's the most drawn out sequence of someone punching him over and over again (I counted 15 times). This comes AFTER a missile to the face. And after all that, Ares just got right back up and was beating Herc up, with no apparent problems.
With his other fights, there weren't any drawn out fights where he got punched over and over again like that, which is why it's being used. Spider blitzed Masterson seven times, sending him reeling. Laid Firelord out with 9 hits.
Herc failed with 15. And a missile. And further other hits. So for your analogy to work, it would be more akin to:
Hulk couldn't KO Wolvy with 20 punches. But Luke has KO'd Daken/Deadpool with 5 punches, therefore, he would KO Wolvy.
Atlas also finished Hype and Iron Man, beat Genis to death, and staggered Moonstone with two stones.
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As many as it would take to take out one of the several heavy weights that Spiderman has taken out in the past, and actually have equal to greater physical stats to Ares. If you cant go with that I would conclude that you would be insinuating that all of those times were PIS.
I understand all of what You're saying, just like I understand everything that other people are saying, but it can't be waved away when Spiderman goes on to KO the Hulk, Rhino, Firelord, and others that are on or above Ares' level of power or beyond. I can't even call it PIS because again, this has happened more than once or twice. It's been happening throughout the decades of the characters inception. I can't remember the entire battle between Herc and Ares, I have the comics, but I was so unimpressed by the weak plot that I don't remember the finer details. However, that showing does not negate the times that Spiderman has either beaten guys on Ares level, or done extremely well against others.
When it comes to Firelord, and Spiderman knocking him out physically, some people are unable to wrap their heads around the fact, that if Spiderman fought Firelord H2H only like we have on this forum from time to time, that he would, or could win like he did in that comic. The only thing people want to reflect on is that Firelords powers could have incinerated him from the start, which isn't the point that i am actually making. Then I walk away asking myself if the people that aren't getting my point have the ability to keep up with the point that I am trying to make? The point? Spiderman can hurt guys that are just as tough as Ares, and it doesn't take hours or days based on several of his showings.
Spiderman has used that tactic against robotic opponents. Webbing them up, and turning them into wrecking ball type of attacks. Not sure about organic foes though, but it is a tactic that can be used since Peter is a very smart character. I mean do you believe that he would be unable to come up with something as simple as that?
Goliath was classified as a class 100 but well below Hercules in terms of lifting feats. Tiger Shark, Mr. Hyde, and the others were never placed withing the class 100 tier, but then again neither was Ares. However handbooks are pure BS when it comes to lifting feats, because there are times that the characters that are said to be well below class 100, were capable of exceeding that very benchmark. Then again Spiderman has exceeded the class 10-25 ton range as well several times himself.
Hercules was clearly fine when he marched in headstrong to take on the MOE all by himself, but they were quickly able to overwhelm him, and KO him. They then continued to beat him into a coma. I mean if you want a play by play of what actually happened. My point was that weaker characters than Hercules were able to easily compromise his durability, and hurt him. Make no mistake though, Hercules was far stronger than the strongest MOE member there (Goliath). This was later confirmed. Eric Josten known as Atlas is/was that very same Goliath, and Hercules is far superior to him. You get what I'm saying? The same applies to Spiderman hurting guys well above his weight class. To add to this point, Thor then goes in single handed, and puts an end to the guys that easily defeated Hercules, and Thor and Herc are very close in physical stats. Anyway, shit happens.
Different writers, and all that comes with that. Comics as i mentioned are often non contiguous, and this is mainly due to writer/artist opinion. These people are fans as well after all. All the same I'm glad that you get what I've been trying to explain. Spiderman can hurt Ares based on what he has done to other characters in or above Ares' weight class.
@Sin didn't know the full context of his battle with Creel, but that does not negate his showings against others of that weight class. He did it, and I have no doubt that we will see him do it again. I mean in terms of beating or hurting characters well above his weight class. From the start let it be known that I always said that Ares could win, but he has to actually hit Spiderman for that to happen.
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Last edited by Stoic on Feb 27th, 2015 at 04:24 PM
If pissed off Spidey could hurt characters on or above Ares' level yes he can also hurt Ares. I thought that you understood what Samzed stated? If you do, or did why continue acting like you don't understand and returning square one?
Based on past showings Ares shouldn't be invulnerable to Spiderman's strikes. Based on logic he should, but then again Hercules should have been immune to the Masters of Evils punches kicks and slams. He wasn't. Getting hit by the axe may not happen. Sentry does not have the same powers that Spiderman has. You know this.
Oh yeah and I forgot to ask. Was Hercules immortal at the time that he fought Ares? This has to be addressed. If not he would have been much weaker than he was at his best.
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Last edited by Stoic on Feb 27th, 2015 at 04:34 PM
That was my reframing of his point. And it leads to the implication that Luke > Hulk. IOW, I never understood the point he was trying to make - because it doesn't make sense, and used an incorrect analogy.
But to switch things up:
So what showings of ARES makes you think that Spiderman would be able to KO him?
I know you will cling to the showings of Spidey, but how about the other way round?
You are saying he has the offense (his treatment of heralds) and the defense (his speed/agility/SS) to stay in the game.
Masterson is Masterson, and Titania is Titania. How about Ares? What makes you think he does not have the durability to stand up to seven Masterson level punches, or nine Firelord punches?
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Feb 27th, 2015 07:41 AM
Bluewaterrider: "I'm surprised that a Skyfather like Zeus defeated Hulk when Zeus' Top-Tier son Hercules has lost to Hulk."
Mortals don't need specific weaponry on the level of hydra blood to be hurt.
