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Greatest NBA Players Ever
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Deronn_solo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tell you what: if these Cavs beat these Warriors in the Finals, Lebron is 50/50 for me in terms of being the GOAT.


That's fair. smile


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 02:25 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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It's just unlikely, though. This Warriors team is honestly the best team of all time. I'd argue they could smoke just about any team from the past 20 years in a playoff series.


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 03:01 AM
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Deronn_solo
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Better than the '00 Lakers, with a peak Shaq, and peaking Kobe?


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 05:42 AM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
KG was a much better defender, comparable rebounder, better playmaker, and comparable scorer to Barkley at his peak.

Malone was Barkley but an inferior playmaker, better scorer and defender, with much more longevity and more accolades to boot.

Duncan is self-explanatory.
KG better defender? definitely. Comparable rebounder..maybe...in fact i might say KG is better. Better playmaker? meh. Comparable scorer? slap yourself, KG never averaged more than 25 points(24.3 ppg is his best in fact) Barkley did it roughly 5 times. If we were to stick to their prime peak years KG would average 23ppg while Barkley would average 25ppg, which might not be much but take it the good fact that Barkley averaged a better FG percentage through those years(all were close to 600% for f**k sake) and career wise too. If Barkley averaged more points and has a better field goal percentage then it's not comparable...it's noticeably better.

Meh IMO, Malone won't function that high without Stockton whistle

Respect to Duncan but without Spurs management like Pops and consistent teammates like Manu, Parker and at one point The Admiral, in my honest and harsh opinion, Dunan would have never amounted to anything.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Better than the '00 Lakers, with a peak Shaq, and peaking Kobe?
Heh, saw this debate on first take laughing out loud


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Old Post Jan 23rd, 2017 12:04 PM
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Deronn_solo
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quote:
Respect to Duncan but without Spurs management like Pops and consistent teammates like Manu, Parker and at one point The Admiral, in my honest and harsh opinion, Duncan would have never amounted to anything.


This is based on nothing but speculation and conjecture, tbh

quote:
Heh, saw this debate on first take

Who were they siding with, tbh?


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Old Post Jan 24th, 2017 01:08 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Better than the '00 Lakers, with a peak Shaq, and peaking Kobe?


Yep. The way I see it is:

1. Draymond and Klay take turns guarding Kobe
2. KD and Zaza do their best as rim protectors against Shaq, (which yes, is barbecue chicken for Shaq).

Then...how the fugg do the Lakers stop KD/Steph/Klay? Kobe wasn't exactly a consistently elite defender, and he's not stopping KD or Steph, period. Draymond's playmaking to get easy shots for KD/Steph/Klay would tear apart the '00 Lakers. And don't forget about the run-stopper Shaun Livingston, Iguodala, or the other solid scorers on the Warrior's bench. And the best part?

These Warriors haven't peaked yet. They literally have the highest point differential in NBA History, and they haven't peaked. This is going to be a dynasty.


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Old Post Jan 24th, 2017 02:23 AM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
This is based on nothing but speculation and conjecture, tbh


Who were they siding with, tbh?
Maybe because we never seen Duncan fail that hard i admit. But it's just a step less then assuming LeBron would have never won a ring if he were to stay in Cleveland. They would probably not have got Kyrie either.

Stephen A Smith my man, was on Laker side and Max being the opinionated ass he is...was on Warriors. In short Max case was 3s>2s and if i remember correctly Stephen case was Shaq and Kobe would just dominate.


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Old Post Jan 24th, 2017 02:52 AM
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Old Post Jan 24th, 2017 03:08 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheHulk
KG better defender? definitely. Comparable rebounder..maybe...in fact i might say KG is better. Better playmaker? meh. Comparable scorer? slap yourself, KG never averaged more than 25 points(24.3 ppg is his best in fact) Barkley did it roughly 5 times. If we were to stick to their prime peak years KG would average 23ppg while Barkley would average 25ppg, which might not be much but take it the good fact that Barkley averaged a better FG percentage through those years(all were close to 600% for f**k sake) and career wise too. If Barkley averaged more points and has a better field goal percentage then it's not comparable...it's noticeably better.

Meh IMO, Malone won't function that high without Stockton whistle

Respect to Duncan but without Spurs management like Pops and consistent teammates like Manu, Parker and at one point The Admiral, in my honest and harsh opinion, Dunan would have never amounted to anything.


1. Yes, KG is by far the better defender. Which is half of the game, mind you. thumb up

2. I agree. KG at his peak averaged around 14 rebounds per game, which is more than Barkley. Generally speaking I'd give Barkley a slight edge, though.

3. Being a better playmaker is nothing to scoff at. KG literally had to be the primary scorer, defender, and facilitator for the TWolves. Like, him averaging 5-6 dimes at his peak to go along with the points/rebounds defense is absolutely insane, beyond what we've seen from Barkley.

4. KG is very much a comparable scorer to Barkley. Better midrange shooter, equal if not better post up game. Barkley was just more dominant in terms of transition scoring. Barkley had a higher FG % than KG because he shot inside much more than KG, who actually preferred fadeaways and midrangers. May as well say all scoring centers are better scorers than all guards because of their FG %.

5. Add on to all of this the fact that KG has a DPOY and was the best player on a championship team, (Barkley has neither,) and I'd think KG should definitely be above Barkley on all time lists.

With regards to Karl Malone...Stockton benefitted more from Malone than vice versa. When Amar'e left Phoenix, he still averaged 25 with the Knicks. Blake Griffin was just as good of a scorer before Chris Paul joined. Kareem was a great scorer with or without Magic Johnson. Malone has 11 All-NBA 1st Team appearances, 2 MVPs, and better overall statistics than Barkley. He's simply...better.

With regards to Tim Duncan...there's no argument for Barkley here. Tim literally led the Spurs to a ring his sophomore season with an absolutely incredible Finals performance. Don't forget the 2003 Finals, where he had 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks in the closeout game. Duncan had a better post up game than Barkley, and was a much better defender and leader than Barkley. Duncan's longevity also shits on Barkley's.


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Last edited by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ on Jan 24th, 2017 at 03:52 AM

Old Post Jan 24th, 2017 03:47 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Dirk is another guy I may put above Barkley. Dude should have won 3 straight MVPs from 2004-2005 to 2006-2007.


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Old Post Jan 24th, 2017 03:54 AM
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TheHulk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Yes, KG is by far the better defender. Which is half of the game, mind you. thumb up

2. I agree. KG at his peak averaged around 14 rebounds per game, which is more than Barkley. Generally speaking I'd give Barkley a slight edge, though.

3. Being a better playmaker is nothing to scoff at. KG literally had to be the primary scorer, defender, and facilitator for the TWolves. Like, him averaging 5-6 dimes at his peak to go along with the points/rebounds defense is absolutely insane, beyond what we've seen from Barkley.

4. KG is very much a comparable scorer to Barkley. Better midrange shooter, equal if not better post up game. Barkley was just more dominant in terms of transition scoring. Barkley had a higher FG % than KG because he shot inside much more than KG, who actually preferred fadeaways and midrangers. May as well say all scoring centers are better scorers than all guards because of their FG %.

5. Add on to all of this the fact that KG has a DPOY and was the best player on a championship team, (Barkley has neither,) and I'd think KG should definitely be above Barkley on all time lists.

With regards to Karl Malone...Stockton benefitted more from Malone than vice versa. When Amar'e left Phoenix, he still averaged 25 with the Knicks. Blake Griffin was just as good of a scorer before Chris Paul joined. Kareem was a great scorer with or without Magic Johnson. Malone has 11 All-NBA 1st Team appearances, 2 MVPs, and better overall statistics than Barkley. He's simply...better.

With regards to Tim Duncan...there's no argument for Barkley here. Tim literally led the Spurs to a ring his sophomore season with an absolutely incredible Finals performance. Don't forget the 2003 Finals, where he had 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks in the closeout game. Duncan had a better post up game than Barkley, and was a much better defender and leader than Barkley. Duncan's longevity also shits on Barkley's.


1. I agree, Defense is very important. Remember the quote ''Defense wins championship''

2. In my opinion, KG on offensive and defensive rebounds had more tenacity and with respect to Barkley just being 6'6, but KG is just more capable at rebounds. That's why i give the slight edge for KG.

3. I was not dismissing KG as a playmaker. I was dismissing both them as playmakers as both KG and Barkley abilities at playmaking are not strong points IMO. Not saying their playmaking skills aren't good...just nothing to gloss over for me.

4. NO! JUST NO! Scorer means put the ball in the basket! I don't care how you do it, i mean seriously why does it matter how you do it? When you get a scorer, you want points and no one will take someone like CP3(despite being a very good scorer) over Shaq. You either get more points...or you don't! Unless you got the accolades and records like Kobe, who averages 25 for career but has an 81 point game, multiple 40-60 point games and just tons of scoring records. I brought in FG% because regardless of the topic, if we are talking about putting up points....missing less and more going in is VEEEERY IMPORTANT. Plus you seriously missed my point and completely twisted it, i simply pointed out the fact one player(Barkley) who averages more points and having a better FG%(Garnett) is a huge bonus because not only are you scoring more points but taking less shots at it, which means LESS MISSES and LESS OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE OPPOSITION.

5. HAHAH I'm sorry but the Suns when facing the Bulls, Barkley was not the best player on that team? ARE YOU INSANE!? DO YOU HATE BARKLEY?

Seriously, mentioning all those PFs does not help your case because they are all different players. Not everyone can do this and that. As a huge Griffin fan, i would have to say you are hugely wrong about BG, the dude was obviously a monster, but at that time you, you would trust CP3 on racking up points more at least IMO. Either way my point was not to dismiss Malone or even Duncan's ability to play basketball, i was just pointing out the fact is they would have never been *that good* without their team and we aren't just talking on the same line as whether MJ would have won without Pippen or Kobe would have another 2 rings without Gasol. We are talking about how much they make their team a championship team as an individual. Duncan as good as he was, like i said, seriously needed Pop and Parker and Manu. While Malone needed Stockton just to have a chance. No disrespect to Kevin Johnson but Barkley was the prime reason Pheonix was on the playoff and a damn good team. Spurs is entire team effort which so happens that Duncan was the best player on the team and Malone and Stockton needed each other like almost Kobe and Shaq and MJ and Pippen.


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Old Post Jan 24th, 2017 10:57 AM
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Zack M
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1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Tim Duncan
7. Hakeem
8. Malone
9. Lebron
10. Kobe


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 12:29 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Lebron at 9? Why so low?


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 12:32 AM
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Zack M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lebron at 9? Why so low?


I just don't see him above those players. I think he's a bit overrated, IMO.

Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 12:58 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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In what way is Lebron overrated? He's superior in terms of both accolades (such as MVPs and championships) and/or statistics to:

Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Malone

Heck, Malone and Hakeem aren't even close. Those who claim Lebron is the GOAT are overrating him, but tbh he's easily a top 3-4 player of all time.


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 01:08 AM
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Zack M
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
In what way is Lebron overrated? He's superior in terms of both accolades (such as MVPs and championships) and/or statistics to:

Wilt
Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Malone

Heck, Malone and Hakeem aren't even close. Those who claim Lebron is the GOAT are overrating him, but tbh he's easily a top 3-4 player of all time.


He's kind of a choke artist. If it weren't for Wade, Irving, or Ray Allen, he wouldn't have his championships. He's a good player, but that's all I see him now.

I might rank Malone above Duncan. He doesn't have the championships, but he's durable, lasts longer, and has a crap load of points. He's better at offense, but slightly below in defense.

Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 01:18 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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"He's kind of a choke artist."

Lol. His stats are better in the playoffs than in the regular season. Wade didn't win him any of his championships, neither did Kyrie, hence why Lebron is the one with 3 Finals MVPs. Wanna know why Ray Allen's shot was so iconic? Because Lebron had 13-15 points in the fourth quarter to keep the heat in the game prior to that shot. 2014 Wade averaged 14 points in the finals. In 2012 and 2013 Lebron nearly averaged a Triple Double in the finals. In 2016, Lebron lead BOTH TEAMS in ALL statistical categories, (points rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks). Against a 73-9 team. Get out with this choker nonsense. Its been torn down time and time again.

You can't bring up Lebron being a choker, (which he isn't if you do the research) then bring up Karl Malone, who's historically been recognized as a choker, (albeit a bit unfairly,) being better than Tim freaking Duncan, the most clutch PF ever. Duncan is a better leader, solidly superior defender, (check the stats/all defensive teams,) and comparable offensive player, (and much better in the clutch). And Duncan also had just as much longevity as Karl.

Karl Malone and Hakeem COMBINED:

2 rings
2 Finals MVPs
3 MVPs
2 DPOY awards
0 scoring titles

Lebron:

3 rings
3 Finals MVPs
4 MVPs
0 DPOY
1 scoring title

Only players greater than Lebron are Jordan and Kareem, all things considered. I mean, Karl and Hakeem aren't even close.


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 01:29 AM
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Yeah, Malone is a choke artist, too. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 01:43 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
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Fair enough. I guess I just don't understand your logic in this discussion. thumb up


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Old Post Feb 6th, 2017 01:51 AM
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TheHulk
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LeBron is not a choke artist but i still won't call him clutch in regards to MJ, Kobe or even Bird or Miller. No stat can prove otherwise as long as LeBron has the mentality to pass rather than take the last shot, even when he has the ability to make it. pft...

Some stats, at least career stats, need to have some context. Because like for example, someone like Shaq averages 23.3 for career but we all know the this big monster easily averages close to 30 points in his early and prime years. It was because he decided to play through old and unheathly age for another 4-6 seasons that affected his career stats.


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