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Dragon Ball Super
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Sj_Sharp
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^ Yes, I agree with you here. There's something more into the game.
In any case, I believe any scenario without Goku winning is not a good scenario. Really, not to be a fanboy or anything, Goku has lost before, but this is different: you build up for a year what it will be his ultimate form, something that cannot be beaten, then you tell us that Dragon Ball is ending with a big final fight, in which, just at the end, Goku is going to MASTER said ultimate form.

And yet he loses? Again? Dafuq.

This is just bad storytelling.
I knew that Freeza was still there, so I was expecting shit to happen from AT and Toei, but this?

"Oh yes, Goku mastered the ****ing Ultra Instinct that not even the Gods of Destruction have, but you know what, well he falls and loses. Bye".

Even if it is from a cheap shot or not a clean-cut loss, with MUI we should be at a level of power at which things like this should not happen anymore.

Sometimes the hero not winning is good, but sometimes is utterly not. IMHO, this case is the latter and it really ruins and makes meaningless all they have done so far.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:02 PM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Gender: Male
Location: Theater of War

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
^ Yes, I agree with you here. There's something more into the game.
thumb up

Maybe it will turn out to be a clear-cut win for Jiren... Maybe he will legitimately overpower MUI Goku and that's that.

But to me, the previews imply that something f*cked up is going to happen that ends their battle prematurely... Hence both of them evidently staring at the Zen-Ohs after Goku's elimination like "WTF, guys! Let us finish this!!!"

We'll see, I guess...


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"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:25 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

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Alright, so the point of contention seems to be the “match isn’t over yet” part. Based on the context, I’m pretty sure it’s referring to the tournament as a whole, not Goku vs Jiren specifically.

I.e: Goku has been knocked out, but they look at Zen-Oh because U11 hasn’t quite won yet...because Frieza is still out there.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:42 PM
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The Ellimist
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Alright, so the point of contention seems to be the “match isn’t over yet” part. Based on the context, I’m pretty sure it’s referring to the tournament as a whole, not Goku vs Jiren specifically.

I.e: Goku has been knocked out, but they look at Zen-Oh because U11 hasn’t quite won yet...because Frieza is still out there.


Wait if it registered to Jiren that Frieza was still out there, it would make no sense for him to not have his defenses up.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:44 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Gender: Male
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Frieza could death beam Jiren in the back as he’s staring at the Omni-King for all we know. I guess the way I’m reading it is this:

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: “Son Goku has fallen from the arena.” I hope we can agree that this means Goku has been eliminated. The spoilers then proceed to say that the U7 spectators are in despair as they fear everything is going to be annihilated (how would they forget about Frieza still being in if he’s the one who caused Goku to be knocked out?). Goku and Jiren then look at the Omni-kings, as both know that the tournament isn’t over yet. In that moment, Frieza death beam’s Jiren. I think that’s the least assumptive interpretation of the spoilers.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:57 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

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EDIT TO LAST POST:

[SPOILER - highlight to read]: okay, so the spoilers actually say “it seems like Universe 7 has lost and that everyone will be annihilated,” but it wouldn’t seem like that if Frieza was the one who knocked out Goku, because then we would know that U7 isn’t going to be erased quite yet.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:59 PM
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cdtm
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Did I call it, or didn't I? smile


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:02 AM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Gender: Male
Location: The Eternal Throne

You did indeed. smile


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”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:11 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Alright, so the point of contention seems to be the “match isn’t over yet” part. Based on the context, I’m pretty sure it’s referring to the tournament as a whole, not Goku vs Jiren specifically.

I.e: Goku has been knocked out, but they look at Zen-Oh because U11 hasn’t quite won yet...because Frieza is still out there.
That's not how it reads to me at all.

But like I said, we'll just have to wait and see. Previews are meant to be ambiguous for a reason. thumb up


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 9th, 2018 at 12:43 AM

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 12:31 AM
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bbrem123
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Yea the Frieza sentence imo seem like a completely separate set of context form the staring at Zen-Oh sentence.

I think the confusion is around both sentences coming directly after one another.

But like Galan said above, we just have to wait and see. (Unless more spoilers come out clearing this up). It just seems strange because even full powered Jiren seems to be struggle wit MUI in the episode preview.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 01:01 AM
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cdtm
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Was thinking:

Why can't the angels cut out the middlemen, and just do the job themselves instead of playing nursemaid to these gods?

Seems like pointless red tape.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 01:30 AM
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carver9
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Jiren defeats Goku and in relief he stands on the edge watching Goku body fall to defeat. Goku ports back to the stand with the other members and both Goku and Jiren looks up at Zeno. Looking up while relieved, watching the Zenos finger reach to press Goku face on the pad in slow motion, a beam of light strikes Jiren in the back who wasn't expecting it. His battered body due to his fight from Goku was unable to withstand the attack. Frieza screams out "I told you I would be the one to defeat you" and hit Jiren with a barrage of beams slowly knocking him off of the ring. Jiren falling in slow motion down to the decided fate of his universe whispers "The strongest has failed" ... gets ported back to the bleachers while the Zenos is raising their hands to wipe their universe clean. Everyone is vanishing one by one with Jiren being the last one to fade off. He looks over at Goku and tells him, "job well done... I am proud to fight against a true warrior like you". Goku smiles, stands up and crotch while Jiren and his universe disappear forever. The camera then points to Frieza who is standing on the edge of the cliff doing his sinister laugh while looking at the Zenos with a smile knowing he is about to get his wish to rule over all.

This is what is going to happen. You all wasted pages typing things over the bible I just wrote. It is set in stone, enjoy.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 01:56 AM
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Dark-Kenshin
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As much as I like the idea of a Frieza victory and Goku losing, the spoilers might be fake. They've been fake before. Remember when Frieza joined U4 and Yamcha became the 10th member of U7? laughing out loud

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:03 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Gender: Male
Location: Theater of War

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
Was thinking:

Why can't the angels cut out the middlemen, and just do the job themselves instead of playing nursemaid to these gods?

Seems like pointless red tape.
They 'could' very easily, but that is not the function they were designed for.

The Angels' primary purpose is attending to, and training, their respective Hakaishin.


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 9th, 2018 at 02:07 AM

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:04 AM
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cdtm
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Seems like kind of a waste, though.

The gods of destruction are all terrible people. Lazy, petty, needing constant prodding just to do their basic duties.

And keeping those nitwits in line is the angel classes entire lives? Can you say hell for eternity?

They can't even die or get erased with their universes, they just exist to serve. Being an angel kind of sucks.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:24 AM
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bbrem123
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Wow never thought of it that way. Yea that is a shitty existence for sure.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:37 AM
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cdtm
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When you think about it, it's no wonder so many angels acted casually about their charges getting erased.

I'd imagine knowing they could get erased at any time would cause you to try and avoid any attachments..


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 02:40 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Gender: Male
Location: Theater of War

quote: (post)
Originally posted by cdtm
Seems like kind of a waste, though.

The gods of destruction are all terrible people. Lazy, petty, needing constant prodding just to do their basic duties.

And keeping those nitwits in line is the angel classes entire lives? Can you say hell for eternity?

They can't even die or get erased with their universes, they just exist to serve. Being an angel kind of sucks.
They don't bring that kind of emotion/outlook into it, though. Angels were created to serve the Hakaishin, and they seem completely impartial about it... That's just what they do. /shrug

But yeah, from an outside perspective it's a shit job for sure... Though I think Daishinkan has it the worst by FAR. One Zen-Oh is bad enough, but now he has TWO of them to care for. F*cking hell... blink


__________________

"A great tactician creates plans.
A good tactician recognizes the soundness of a plan presented to him.
A fair tactician must see the plan succeed before offering approval.
Those with no tactical ability at all may never understand or accept the plan.
And when a mind is too deficient in understanding, the resulting gap is often filled with resentment."

-Thrawn

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 03:02 AM
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ares834
Knight of Ren

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
^ Yes, I agree with you here. There's something more into the game.
In any case, I believe any scenario without Goku winning is not a good scenario. Really, not to be a fanboy or anything, Goku has lost before, but this is different: you build up for a year what it will be his ultimate form, something that cannot be beaten, then you tell us that Dragon Ball is ending with a big final fight, in which, just at the end, Goku is going to MASTER said ultimate form.

And yet he loses? Again? Dafuq.

This is just bad storytelling.
I knew that Freeza was still there, so I was expecting shit to happen from AT and Toei, but this?

"Oh yes, Goku mastered the ****ing Ultra Instinct that not even the Gods of Destruction have, but you know what, well he falls and loses. Bye".

Even if it is from a cheap shot or not a clean-cut loss, with MUI we should be at a level of power at which things like this should not happen anymore.

Sometimes the hero not winning is good, but sometimes is utterly not. IMHO, this case is the latter and it really ruins and makes meaningless all they have done so far.


thumb up Agreed.

It's like SSJ Goku losing to Frieza at Namek. It's just poor storytelling.

Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 03:36 AM
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cdtm
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With all the hype and time put into building this thing up, yeah. It's not like Cell Saga, where the point was building up Gohan. Or Buu Saga, which was meant to bring the series to a close and fit in every cameo it can. Even Battle of the Gods was just the start of something, so losing to Beerus made sense.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 03:41 AM
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