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Donald Trump, 45th President of the United States
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthgoober
Do you honestly think that if we make it even mre difficult for someone to kill a mass of people with a gun that he/she won't just pick another way of attacking large groups such as an automobile or homemade explosives? I don't remember which country the auto attack that killed even more people than the LV attack happened in, do you have any idea how their gun regulations compare to ours?


Then why do we have laws and regulations if laws and regulations do nothing apparently?


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:29 PM
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Raisen
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Then why do we have laws and regulations if laws and regulations do nothing apparently?


there are already harsh penalties for murder rob. where there's a will there's a way

I've provided ample evidence man. all you're doing is repeating your question over and over. come on dude. the evidence is here. gun restrictions don't really do much about homicide rate.

so in truth it only harms good people.

If someone is willing to do murder suicide...he's going to do it.

if someone is hell bent on risking life in prison for murder...he's going to do it.

the penalty is already there bro.

the stats. the facts are already showing gun restriction isn't really related to homicide rate.


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:32 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Raisen
there are already harsh penalties for murder rob. where there's a will there's a way

I've provided ample evidence man. all you're doing is repeating your question over and over. come on dude. the evidence is here. gun restrictions don't really do much about homicide rate.

so in truth it only harms good people.

If someone is willing to do murder suicide...he's going to do it.

if someone is hell bent on risking life in prison for murder...he's going to do it.

the penalty is already there bro.

the stats. the facts are already showing gun restriction isn't really related to homicide rate.


We don't even have to look at other countries, since the NRA-approved counter argument to that is "well, we're not *country*, we're America."

We can use US data: https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-deaths/448044/

By and large, states with more regulations have fewer deaths: https://content.njdc.com/media/medi...nchart-1203.png


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:37 PM
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Raisen
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
We don't even have to look at other countries like Australia.

We can use US data: https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-deaths/448044/

By and large, states with more regulations have fewer deaths: https://content.njdc.com/media/medi...nchart-1203.png


you know stats can be skewed rob.

I'm getting sources from the united nations

your charts are from the center to prevent gun violence?

come on man.

then on your same website you provided there is this graph showing the highest levels of homicide in states that have gun bans...like DC.

Rob. you can change your mind bro. there's nothing wrong with it

Attachment: syg-1018.png
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:41 PM
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Raisen
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Maryland bro? Illinois bro?

come on man


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QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:43 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Then why do we have laws and regulations if laws and regulations do nothing apparently?


Great question!


The answer to why they exist and why some are effective and some are not is a very nuanced answer.

There are a few examples where prohibitions and extreme restrictions have proven to have the opposite effect as intended such as Drug Prohibitions, Regulations, and Restrictions. The War on Drugs, for example, has made the US drug problem even worse. But regulating the drug industry has resulted in some corrupt but sometimes highly effective drug protocols. Why? What's the difference? Well, the companies, which wish to maintain legality for the most part, will operate with the legal frameworks set forth and enforced in the US. But those who choose not to, such as mom and pop methlabs, will continue to make illegal drugs, illegally. As science gets better and access to that science gets better, you'll see this more and more. Even the mom and pop methlabs are improving in quality (the quality of drugs being put out), according to my buddy who works for the OCPD (Oklahoma County PD).

So why would we see much difference with guns? Both are prohibited and/or heavily regulated. Both have highly organized black markets. Both have mom and pop illegal operations. Drugs, however, are a much much bigger business than guns.

Similar to housing regulations. Do you think ol' Joe building his log cabin in the remote woods of Wyoming is having to go through the strict housing regulations that are enforced in Cheyenne (I'm ol' Joe is beholden to housing regulations, technically, but it won't be enforced)? Definitely not. And if you think I'm bullshitting about Cheyenne's housing regulations:

https://library.municode.com/wy/che...es?nodeId=16266

I was legit shocked when I ran across this. Odd for Wyoming to have it this strict considering Cheyenne's population is 64k. But that's the point.



Have you picked up a theme, yet, from this? Why is it that some regulations get proactive participation and some do not? Why is it that some regulations are almost unanimously adhered to by affected parties and some are not? It can be boiled down to 2 primary factors:

1. Social Groups.
2. Enforceability.



If the regulation requires you to operate and act within a specific set of parameters or else face being removed from the "social group", you'll participate. This strangely expands to very large and complicated social groups such as Business Markets. For example, car manufacturing and car insurance. If a car manufacturer wishes to drive their car on American roads, they will have to adhere to a specific set of regulatory standards. Else they will face fines, removal of that car, or being removed from that social group (sharing government roads). They wish to remain part of that social group so they get licensed and insured. But this is not always the case! About 12.6% of motorists are not insured. Despite extremely pervasive and effective insurance lobbying, regulation, and enforcement, that's still quite a large number. So the deterrent of being removed from that social group is not so bad. At least 12.6% of people believe so. But wait....doesn't that tie into my second point about enforceability? Right. It's not extremely easy to enforce insurance for people driving on government roads. You can do it in open fields and not worry about being caught (unless you did not have permission). But on the open roads? Nope. You may get caught. Same with manufacturing requirements. Great in private. Not if you want to use government (the social group) infrastructure.


So I've ranted long enough. Guns. Similar to drugs. Enforceability is an issue. Social Groups is also an issue as there are large numbers of groups that really really do not like gun restrictions (or extreme gun restrictions).


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Last edited by dadudemon on Oct 5th, 2017 at 09:01 PM

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:51 PM
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Raisen
Thor is gay

Gender: Male
Location: Fresno, CA United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Great question!


The answer to why they exist and why some are effective and some are not is a very nuanced answer.

There are very items that prohibitions and extreme restrictions have proven to have the opposite effect as intended such as Drug Prohibitions, Regulations, and Restrictions. The War on Drugs, for example, has made the US drug problem even worse. But regulating the drug industry has resulted in some corrupt but sometimes highly effective drug protocols. Why? What's the difference? Well, the companies, which wish to maintain legality for the most part, will operate with the legal frameworks set forth and enforced in the US. But those who choose not to, such as mom and pop methlabs, will continue to make illegal drugs, illegally. As science gets better and access to that science gets better, you'll see this more and more. Even the mom and pop methlabs are improving in quality (the quality of being put out), according to my buddy who works for the OCPD (Oklahoma County PD).

So why would we see much difference with guns? Both are prohibited and/or heavily regulated. Both have highly organized black markets. Both have mom and pop illegal operations. Drugs, however, are a much much bigger business than guns.

Similar to housing regulations. Do you think ol' Joe building his log cabin in the remote woods of Wyoming is having to go through the strict housing regulations that are enforced in Cheyenne? Definitely not. And if you think I'm bullshitting about Cheyenne's housing regulations:

https://library.municode.com/wy/che...es?nodeId=16266

I was legit shocked when I ran across this. Odd for Wyoming to have it this strict considering Cheyenne's population is 64k. But that's the point.



Have you picked up a theme, yet, from this? Why is it that some regulations get proactive participation and some do not? Why is it that some regulations are almost unanimously adhered to by affected parties and some are not? It can be boiled down to 2 primary factors:

1. Social Groups.
2. Enforceability.



If the regulation requires you to operate and act within a specific set of parameters or else face being removed from the "social group", you'll participate. This strangely expands to very large and complicated social groups such as Business Markets. For example, care manufacturing. If a car manufacturer wishes to drive their car on American roads, they will have to adhere to a specific set of regulatory standards. Else they will face fines, removal of that car, or being removed from that social group (sharing government roads). They wish to remain part of that social group so they get licensed and insured. But this is not always the case! About 12.6% of motorists are not insured. Despite extremely pervasive and effective insurance lobbying, regulation, and enforcement, that's still quite a large number. So the deterrent of being removed from that social group is not so bad. At least 12.6% of people believe so. But wait....doesn't that tie into my second point about enforceability? Right. It's not extremely easy to enforce insurance for people driving on government roads. You can do it in open fields and not worry about being caught (unless you did not have permission). But on the open roads? Nope. You may get caught. Same with manufacturing requirements. Great in private. Not if you want to use government (the social group) infrastructure.


So I've ranted long enough. Guns. Similar to drugs. Enforceability is an issue. Social Groups is also an issue as there are large numbers of groups that really really do not like gun restrictions (or extreme gun restrictions).


excellent


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QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:54 PM
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Raisen
Thor is gay

Gender: Male
Location: Fresno, CA United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
Great question!


The answer to why they exist and why some are effective and some are not is a very nuanced answer.

There are very items that prohibitions and extreme restrictions have proven to have the opposite effect as intended such as Drug Prohibitions, Regulations, and Restrictions. The War on Drugs, for example, has made the US drug problem even worse. But regulating the drug industry has resulted in some corrupt but sometimes highly effective drug protocols. Why? What's the difference? Well, the companies, which wish to maintain legality for the most part, will operate with the legal frameworks set forth and enforced in the US. But those who choose not to, such as mom and pop methlabs, will continue to make illegal drugs, illegally. As science gets better and access to that science gets better, you'll see this more and more. Even the mom and pop methlabs are improving in quality (the quality of being put out), according to my buddy who works for the OCPD (Oklahoma County PD).

So why would we see much difference with guns? Both are prohibited and/or heavily regulated. Both have highly organized black markets. Both have mom and pop illegal operations. Drugs, however, are a much much bigger business than guns.

Similar to housing regulations. Do you think ol' Joe building his log cabin in the remote woods of Wyoming is having to go through the strict housing regulations that are enforced in Cheyenne? Definitely not. And if you think I'm bullshitting about Cheyenne's housing regulations:

https://library.municode.com/wy/che...es?nodeId=16266

I was legit shocked when I ran across this. Odd for Wyoming to have it this strict considering Cheyenne's population is 64k. But that's the point.



Have you picked up a theme, yet, from this? Why is it that some regulations get proactive participation and some do not? Why is it that some regulations are almost unanimously adhered to by affected parties and some are not? It can be boiled down to 2 primary factors:

1. Social Groups.
2. Enforceability.



If the regulation requires you to operate and act within a specific set of parameters or else face being removed from the "social group", you'll participate. This strangely expands to very large and complicated social groups such as Business Markets. For example, care manufacturing. If a car manufacturer wishes to drive their car on American roads, they will have to adhere to a specific set of regulatory standards. Else they will face fines, removal of that car, or being removed from that social group (sharing government roads). They wish to remain part of that social group so they get licensed and insured. But this is not always the case! About 12.6% of motorists are not insured. Despite extremely pervasive and effective insurance lobbying, regulation, and enforcement, that's still quite a large number. So the deterrent of being removed from that social group is not so bad. At least 12.6% of people believe so. But wait....doesn't that tie into my second point about enforceability? Right. It's not extremely easy to enforce insurance for people driving on government roads. You can do it in open fields and not worry about being caught (unless you did not have permission). But on the open roads? Nope. You may get caught. Same with manufacturing requirements. Great in private. Not if you want to use government (the social group) infrastructure.


So I've ranted long enough. Guns. Similar to drugs. Enforceability is an issue. Social Groups is also an issue as there are large numbers of groups that really really do not like gun restrictions (or extreme gun restrictions).


I posted the chart outlining the crime increase that ensued after prohibition was put into effect and the drug war.

It's not a "feel" good subject. but crime always spikes after mass immigration occurs and overall crime generally reaches a more static but higher level. part of Japan's success with low crime is it's homogeneity and strict immigration rules.

it just is what it is.


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QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 08:57 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Raisen
I posted the chart outlining the crime increase that ensued after prohibition was put into effect and the drug war.

It's not a "feel" good subject. but crime always spikes after mass immigration occurs and overall crime generally reaches a more static but higher level. part of Japan's success with low crime is it's homogeneity and strict immigration rules.

it just is what it is.


I brought up, to the chagrin and lamentations of my British chums (but not my Scottish pals: they didn't care to bullshit about this, for some reason), that Glasgow was the deadliest city in all of the Western world in 2005, despite the UK's very strict gun regulations. And when they did research behind this, the violence was found to be extremely underreported in Glasgow (meaning, the true violence and murder rate was definitely higher). So if that's the case, why do we focus so much on the guns themselves? They were killing each other with clubs, knives, fists, etc. They were worse than New York City or Detroit.

So why is the focus so heavy on guns? Shouldn't it be on the people and why they are violent? Because the Swiss clearly show us that you can have guns and little violence. So do the Canadians: clearly visible to see that guns do not equal violence. It's a people problem, not a gun problem.


Glasgow leadership saw this. And worked towards reducing violence and it has gotten much better there. Bravo to Glasgow leadership over the last 10+ years, and bravo to the people of Glasgow for reducing violence. Probably still more progress to make. But it's good to see they started solving the problem. No one in glasgow said, "so much violence and death! I know! Let's make guns illegaler!" lol

Perhaps we should stop pursuing this red herring of 'guns are horrible' issue and start tackling the real underlying problem of violence: people can be violent. Let's get solutions for that.


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Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 09:07 PM
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Raisen
Thor is gay

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Location: Fresno, CA United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
I brought up, to the chagrin and lamentations of my British chums (but not my Scottish pals: they didn't care to bullshit about this, for some reason), that Glasgow was the deadliest city in all of the Western world in 2005, despite the UK's very strict gun regulations. And when they did research behind this, the violence was found to be extremely underreported in Glasgow (meaning, the true violence and murder rate was definitely higher). So if that's the case, why do we focus so much on the guns themselves? They were killing each other with clubs, knives, fists, etc. They were worse than New York City or Detroit.

So why is the focus so heavy on guns? Shouldn't it be on the people and why they are violent? Because the Swiss clearly show us that you can have guns and little violence. So do the Canadians: clearly visible to see that guns do not equal violence. It's a people problem, not a gun problem.


Glasgow leadership saw this. And worked towards reducing violence and it has gotten much better there. Bravo to Glasgow leadership over the last 10+ years, and bravo to the people of Glasgow for reducing violence. Probably still more progress to make. But it's good to see they started solving the problem. No one in glasgow said, "so much violence and death! I know! Let's make guns illegaler!" lol

Perhaps we should stop pursuing this red herring of 'guns are horrible' issue and start tackling the real underlying problem of violence: people can be violent. Let's get solutions for that.


yeah. and there's other real problems that people don't want to address.
immigration increases violence. it really doesn't matter so much the race, but statistically it does.

people want to point to japan as a success story without digging deeper and seeing japan has been low homicide since before WW2.


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QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 09:10 PM
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Raisen
Thor is gay

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anyway. no matter what people won't change their opinion it seems. really sad. there's no shame in opening your mind to the possibility you may be wrong.


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QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.

Old Post Oct 5th, 2017 09:13 PM
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darthgoober
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Then why do we have laws and regulations if laws and regulations do nothing apparently?

Because laws and regulations make people feel safer about things that they're afraid of.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 02:08 AM
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Sin I AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
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Got something to say slim? Dont be coy


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 02:22 AM
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Surtur
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What do people think of this?

Trump administration announces rollback of Obamacare birth control mandate

I can't say I have any problems with it.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 10:16 PM
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Kurk
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Honestly, we have too many people on this earth. I don't like government spending on healthcare, but not nearly as much as I detest the increased spending associated with a rising population.


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Old Post Oct 6th, 2017 11:37 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
Honestly, we have too many people on this earth. I don't like government spending on healthcare, but not nearly as much as I detest the increased spending associated with a rising population.


thumb up


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2017 12:14 AM
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Surtur
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I have no problem with birth control, I just don't think other people should have to pay for the birth control of someone else if they do not want to do so.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2017 12:26 AM
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HentaiLover
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Free condom = more likely they'll use it = less people

Old Post Oct 7th, 2017 12:41 AM
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Surtur
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by HentaiLover
Free condom = more likely they'll use it = less people


But they weren't ever free though. Someone else was always paying for them.

Condoms are also not expensive. You could get enough condoms to have sex 1 time per day for an entire month for around $20.


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Last edited by Surtur on Oct 7th, 2017 at 01:00 AM

Old Post Oct 7th, 2017 12:56 AM
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Bashar Teg
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by HentaiLover
Free condom = more likely they'll use it = less people


really an indisputable argument.

[feels-disputing intensifies]


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