You are missing something bud. So is an infinite amount of pages, as stated on panel, finite too for you? You don't like that it had a number of infinite pages? That's your problem, it had according to the comic, so stop your BS excuses and deal with it.
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1. Ok this is getting silly. Whether she dies or not, there was still the possibility of her writing it. There was also the possibility of her writting it a billion different ways. There is also the possibility of here writting a billion different book a billion different ways. And again that's only one person. This book counts them all since they are all POSSIBILE
Superman lifted it with help which means they both lifted infinity. HAving two lift it doesn't magically make it finite especially when it was made clear it the text it was infinate pages. We can't discount that because you don't like it. It canonly had infinate pages and therefore infinate weight
You keep harping on the books that actually exist. That's why you are having a problem here. The book of infinity has way more in it that just the books that currently exist or even that ever will exist. It contains ALL BOOKS POSSIBLE. It's possible for me to write a thousand books about non sense. Since it's possible, they exist within it.
2. All books possible is infinite
3. Half of infinity is infinity so they both lifted infinity
4. Yes they actually do. Prime has no blocks and is therefore stronger. Not hard to figure out.
They never said he was omnipotent. His power isn't limitless. But his strength is. Big difference
Except of this. Superman would have been most likely able to do it alone, like Ultraman, an alternate Superman, however, Superman is a hero and not arrogant, it's in his nature to take no risks and take help with him, just in case.
The book had an infinite number of pages, on panel fact, this means infinite weight, deal with it. Morrison made it easy to understand.
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Plus it was only temporary damage, so basically like a controlled concussion.
Now what he did to Luthor was more disturbing, using hv to cut out the parts of his brain that knew he was Clark Kent. That's on par with Identity Crisis or Charles Xavior mind screwing.
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Also if Superman tried to lift it alone and had trouble, why wouldn't he use the other strong man to help? Just because Superman COULD do it alone doesn't mean he wanted to or even thought he could
When I spot for bench pressing, when the guy startes having trouble I just place my hands on the bar. More often than not that's all they need and they are able to lft the weight themselves because they think I'm helping. Sometimes all you need is that mental edge. Same thing here
I just meant Superman having assistance, even tho that assistance didn't really help (like I try not to help when spotting) didn't change that he lifted infinite weight
No, this has BEEN silly, since this "infinite weight" shit was brought up.
1. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE. If there are "possible" circumstances, then there are "IMpossible" circumstances, meaning that the circumstances that are IMpossible OUTWEIGH, and therefor overshadow, the POSSIBLE circumstances. Because the list of books that are IMPOSSIBLE to make follows MUCH less strict criteria than books POSSIBLE does. For example, if J.K. Rowling was shot and killed before making Harry Potter, then NO ONE would make the EXACT same book, and therefor, Harry Potter would be IMPOSSIBLE to make.
Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that ∞/2=∞. This ALONE is PROOF that either Superman and Shazam BOTH lifted the equivalent of infinite weight,MEANING THEY ARE BOTH EQUAL IN STRENGTH, OR that NEITHER did, since Superman's stress was relieved from Shazam's help, which does NOT make sense, as that could ONLY happen in the case of a FINITE weight.
2. All books possible is a ridiculously high number. But most certainly NOT infinite. Specifically because the nature of the term "possible", gives a set of criteria that would have to be met, in order for the books to exist in the first place.
3. Shazam has the strength of Hercules. Wonder woman is stronger than Hercules, therefore Hercules, i.e. Shazam, could not lift infinity. So since Shazam does NOT have infinite strength, neither does Superman, as Shazam DID relieve some of the weight from Superman.
4. Superboy Prime killed Kal-L, of Earth 2. Who didn't have the mental blocks that Kal-El of Earth 1 has. Which is possible why it was occasionally suggested that Kal-El was slightly weaker than Kal-L. But even without his mental blocks, Kal-El would be pretty much equal to Kal-L. And Superboy Prime BEAT HIM TO DEATH.
And also, what about Doomsday? Doomsday killed Superman with just strength as well. And almost did it a second time. Doomsday was constantly considered superior to Superman, until he gained consciousness. EVEN IN THE FUTURE, AFTER SUPERMAN OVERCAME HIS MENTAL BLOCKS. So how can Doomsday be stronger than an infinite strength? And how can he get stronger every time he dies, even when he was already stronger than an infinite strength?
THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: HE DOESN'T. Superman does NOT have infinite strength, no matter how badly you try to wank this feat.
And again, there is still all the other supporting evidence, like him needing help to move Earth, and him needing help to lift the Spectre. And btw, he tried to move Earth, AFTER lifting the Spectre, meaning that Earth DOES weigh more than the Spectre, even CONSIDERING Superman's mental blocks.
And one last thing, Superman hadn't overcome his mental blocks when he and Shazam lifted the book of infinity. Meaning that he was still stronger. Meaning that, since there is nothing greater than infinity, Superman did not lift infinite weight.
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Different stories different writers. Morrison shows shazam the respect he deserves, he is a comic wiz, he knows and respects the chars, tske the zoo crew as an example. One writer has Superman fly from the other end of the universe to earth in 60 days, another caps him at light speed. Doesn't mean Superman isn't faster than ftl. His strength has always been a plot device, like superman himself, it's infinite if it's needed to. His mental blockades prevent him from destroying the fragile world around him while touching or interacting with things.
You can't grasp the logic behind an infinite strength because you try to applylogic to fiction that doesn't works with logic, your view is biased however. Same argument in dbz for example. Son Goku even at his most powerful can't bust a moon because he never did, all blasts from his enemies are not even island level, even from beerus, when they fight else the world would be destroyed as a side effect.
You don't like a canon feat of Superman? That's ok, we understand that but still you can't make it disappear with your whining, so deal with it, make a website where you "debunk" it and where no one can prove how utterly wrong your "logic" is, over and over again.
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1. It is POSSIBLE (not very probable but still possible) that someone, somewhere, somehow would have written the exact same book. And since it's possible[i] it is included. And again we are talking about possibilities here not what actually happens. So if JK was killed, it still would have been [i]POSSIBLE that if she weren't she would have created HP and and a billion other things as well.
You don't seem to get the implication of the word "possible". That one word is what makes it infinite. You ever hear the phrase "The possibilities are endless"? That's the case here. One single person has the ability to imagine an infinite number of ideas and write them down. Just one person.
But it seems like you are off of the idea that we only consider current Earth bound books and that's a good start.
2. Kinda already answered this but at least we can agree that "all books possible" is a much much much higher number than what you originally tried to calculate. Well beyond anything In DB
3. Comics don't always makes sense but even tho Shazam has his power based on Herc, he is actually stronger than him. Maybe it has to do with him being magical in nature but his feats are above Hercules'
4. Yeah........ Superman from Earth 2 had just flown through a Red Sun and lost his powers. He was basically just an older man at that point. That was a very poor example
As for Doomsday.... well Strength is not durability. For instance, Batman has taken hits from a mind controlled Superman. Doesn't mean he can dish out that kind of power. And Hulk has crazy ass strength feats but he gets cut all the time. Doomsday doesn't have to be stronger that Superman to hurt/kill him. So another poor example but a common enough mistake.
Also you forget that Superman has many different writers and stories that need plot and struggle. One writer may see Superman as weaker than another and that's why you have conflicting feats. DC has addressed this with his mental blocks. Sometimes he can push himself further than other times. So to answer your question, the best way to look at it is Superman has infinite strength but doesn't have access to it at all times. That's why we get him needing help to push a moon but benching the Earth without issue for days on end. He basically is as strong as he needs to be. His strength is a plot device.
The writer clearly stated the book had infinite pages. If it didn't, they would have either made that clear or never stated it did in the first place. You trying to debunk it just shows your biased option here. You want Goku to be stronger but he just doesn't have the feats to compare to Superman's 75+ year history and there is nothing wrong with that.
Also I just realized you tried to use Cell's non canon strength feat as evidence for Goku. Even if the feat were admissible, it isn't tho, it's not a Goku feat. You can't feat swap unless you want me to use feats from Superman's "peers" as evidence for him too. That's a can of worms I'd rather not get in to
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Jul 22nd, 2015 08:05 PM
