Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
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Rag-dolled palpatine. Shaak Ti, DE Luke Level confirmed.
But in all seriousness, if you want the shortest run down, just read the Kinetite section, the "Lightsaber Abilities" section and check out her "Speed Feats" section. Shouldn't take more than a couple minutes, and would give a decent overview.
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Alright I had a quick look, and there's nothing there that I would say really changes my opinion of her. Bear in mind I generally don't take the CW cartoon (which she has some low showings in anyway, like getting absolutely crushed by Grievous) or TFU (especially where it concerns high end feats for everyone other than Sidious, Vader and Starkiller) seriously.
The two sources that were designed to show a highly exaggerated version of what Jedi were capable of, yes.
But ok, if you want to take the CW cartoon seriously, how do you reconcile her getting thrashed multiple times by Grievous with what I presume is your rather high estimation of her?
Edit - don't take it so personally, I have no issue with you including it in her respect thread, I think it's right that you would generally include everything, and leave it up to the individual to decide on what to draw from it.
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Last edited by appletonia on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 03:56 PM
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
I don't need to reconcile it. He faced her once after she'd fought an endless battle which was described as "a desperate last stand", and was intensely tired and battle worn. The other fight was a tactical retreat to make sure Grievous had no chance of striking at the chancellor, she ran to save Palpatine, not herself.
And no, The Force Unleashed wasn't "designed to show a highly exaggerated version of what Jedi were capable of,". That's merely an excuse for people who don't enjoy the idea of Starkiller actually being a very powerful Force wielder. Whether I agree with how hilariously they wanked him in it or not is irrelevant, it's a source and you can't simply dismiss it because you don't like it.
No one dismisses the Hero of Tython's feats for being in the same medium, nor Nox's. You don't see anyone saying we can't use anything from SWTOR at all.
Not to mention, none of what appears in the Force Unleashed is exactly an exaggeration of Shaak Ti. They fit with her tremendous amount of accolades from numerous other sources (that you'll find in that thread), that paint her as one of the most powerful and revered Jedi in history.
And I'm not cracking jokes because you're lowballing Shaak Ti, I'm laughing because you will do anything to wank a character from the Bane era, and it's frankly hilarious.
Do you ever bother backing up what you say anymore?
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Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Not while I'm at work on my phone, and certainly not to someone who has trolled me as much as you have. Maybe to somebody I have at least a degree of respect for when I'm less busy.
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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
How about you give us a brief run down then. For example, I'm on my phone right now and I say:
Shaak Ti is faster, stronger and far more cunning than Kas'im. She has proven herself to be a far greater duelist than someone who has been trained to perfection. One may argue Kas'im is more skilled, but that is flawed. Kas'im's skill accolades come from a POD Bane, who'd never encountered a true masterful duelist before. Galen's on the other hand come from a point of view that's far more reliable, yet he was "lucky to have survived" his duel with her.
In the aspect of Force usage, she has used Tutaminis to divert Lightning attacks sent at her by Starkiller, and has dealt with him launching telekinetic debris at her mid combat. She's shown herself to be a powerful practitioner of Kinetite and is more than a match for Kas'im in the force. Most people would say she could destroy him with it rather easily
Registered: Jul 2014
Location: Off learning Ground Realities
It's confusing. The ROTS Novel actually says the same thing, I feel like it's just a mistake on the authors part, not knowing which Jedi were actually there. I used to explain it as Kenobi's own mistake during the chaos of the battle, but **** knows ever since other sources started agreeing with it
Edit: For anyone curious:
Last edited by Selenial on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 05:39 PM
Sorry lol, i meant thread, sleep deprivation has me loopy.
Well, i didn't mean that, but i get your point. some people rank Bane way too high others quite low etc. I wasn't making fun of you or anything. Just stating the obvious lol.
You can try to blame the first fight entirely on exhaustion, but going by visual evidence, there isn't much to distinguish the physicality with which she fights during that fight, and how she fights later in the series. There certainly isn't much that would suggest any of the Jedi were overtly affected in a physical capacity in the fight itself - we see the usual acrobatics and applications of TK, and no real signs of exhaustion.
And the way Ki-Adi-Mundi phrases it (1:15:00), the exhaustion didn't seem to be a hugely determining factor, given the manner in which he expresses it as more of an afterthought.
Both of which would indicate that while exhaustion surely was a factor, it wasn't a large enough one where you can completely dismiss the fact that she got utterly dominated by Grievous in the fight, while outnumbering him. A more accurate interpretation, and one that fits in place better with the source material, is that she was exhausted, obviously diminished to an extent, but being a Jedi, able to tap into extra reserves of energy and continue fighting with some high degree of physicality, and was simply not good enough to be competitive.
You can also use the other Jedi as a reference point, and she certainly didn't do much to seperate herself from the others, who were similarly exhausted.
And I was referring to the incident at 2:10:35, where prior to this, she had showed impressive physicality in her fight against the MagnaGuards (you even included some speed feats from that fight in her respect thread) and seemed to be able to fight in adequate physical condition, rushes in to attack Grievous and gets brushed aside in one attack.
The general message seems to be that she's simply nowhere near powerful enough to compete with him in physical combat.
At around 2 minutes into the video, you have Hayden Blackman, the executive producer of the game, talking about how they wanted to reimagine elements of Star Wars and in turn demonstrate an "amped up" version of what the Force is capable of, what the very title of the game is in reference to. Nothing specifically about Starkiller.
I wouldn't dismiss the Hero of Tython's feats for being in the same medium, because I'm not making any statements about the medium itself, but specifically The Force Unleashed.
I'm sure you've dug up a tonne of quotes that are highly complimentary to her, but substantiate what being "one of the most powerful and revered Jedi in history" actually means, please (and provide the exact quotes).
I have a very accurate assessment of Kas'im's standing - his skill with a lightsaber has been documented to greater heights than that of anybody else we've ever encountered, he performed very admirably against Bane, the Sith'ari and arguably already one of the most powerful Sith ever, he has one of the best feats of Force defence we've ever seen in blocking Bane's attack, and at the time of his death, you could make a very strong argument for him being the most dangerous close range combatant in the galaxy. He also represents one of the best users of a very effective style - lightsaber specialist with incredible Force defence, that stylistically makes him a very tough matchup for a lot of people. Shaak Ti, was nowhere near one of the top tier of her era based on the evidence, and is thoroughly outclassed.
Thanks for the quote. I've always wondered about that, there's also a quote in one of the databanks for the jedi that died to Grievous in OCW about Ti dueling Grievous, which directly contradicts the show itself. I brought it up to dmb but he shot me down pretty quick a while back lol.
Edit: Sweet Mary Eunice Appletonia! that's a giant wall lol
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Last edited by Fated Xtasy on Jul 23rd, 2015 at 05:45 PM
Nah, i meant as in he basically made sense as to why the quote wouldn't be fit to be used in a debate so people would have shut me down quick. lol poor wording on my part.
Jul 23rd, 2015 03:26 PM
