Ah, the old "she didn't really mean it" excuse. LMAO. Funny how WW fans use that lame excuse when at the same time they're always more than happy to bring up the time when she said to Clark "I'm faster than you" (LOL). So they believe what she says only when it supports their view of her being Superman's "peer". So typical.
__________________ Darwin's theory of evolution is the great white elephant of contemporary thought. It is large, completely useless, and the object of superstitious awe.-Dr. David Berlinski, Philosophy
Most people believe Evolution not because they themselves are dumb, but cause they trust the "experts" who are feeding them evolutionary fast food, and so they don't bother questioning whether or not it's true.
Salsa, I answered much of what you presented on previous pages.
But you're thinking somehow I didn't.
Perhaps providing still fuller context is the key? There WERE statements missed that perhaps should have been included to open this thread.
Also, no one will ever know where to find the thread we're referring to without a link or URL address in the future.
Perhaps we can correct those mistake now by providing both ...
Source: Superman, the Man of Tomorrow #13, Volume 1
Writer: Louise Simonson
Penciller: Paul Ryan
Date: Spring 1999
Tying up loose ends, since I originally intended to address everything you'd brought up in this thread:
Originally posted by ODG
Maxwell's mental powers caused Superman to see and react to situations "strategic[ally]," sometimes "brilliant[ly]," despite being made to see different things at different times:
Let me preface with saying that, in place of "99%" I would substitute "most" for greater accuracy. There's other language I would not use here of course, but let's proceed all the same.
Salsa, if what you're saying is correct, you should have mighty disagreements with the following.
See if you do.
Put it in to words. I think you're more likely to see my point once we get this removed from the level of pure abstraction and start looking at what the other is saying in proper context:
It is always the usual posters who think they know everything about Wonder Woman when clearly they don't most of the times they create arguments of ignorance and when that does not work they just completely ignore evidence or nitpick at feats and or keep moving the goal post.
People who know about Wonder Woman have read a lot of comics I mean Wonder Woman is one of the most published characters in comics. There is a reason why they think Wonder Woman could do this or that.
The detractors eh... Not so much. They are not Wonder Woman experts, they might have their opinions and they are entitled to it. But 99% of the time they are wrong, because they form an argument based on ignorance and if that does not work they nitpick or ignore evidence.
You seemed unaware before now, or at least wrote as if you were:
-- Wonder Woman's greatest feats are in other titles, not her own
-- extra publications don't automatically grant feats relevant to specific KMC discussions. Grant Morrison's Action Comics wouldn't give crap useful to a proposed Superman versus Silver Surfer matchup, for instance.
-- discussion is pointless if the mindset is "he who has the most feats automatically wins" without regard for anything else
-- Superman fans seem to forget basic knowledge of how their character and his powers work when acknowledging such would hurt their position
Good case in point are the basic Kryptonian yellow sun powers.
More sun, more power. Increases in strength, speed, damage soak, durability, healing factor, etcetera as a general rule.
Then they can look at something like the following and not understand why people will not accept this as him at standard Earth-based power levels ...
I think, with the exception of answering fully your allusion to historical treatment and sacrificing one character's full potential for the sake of others, I've responded to everything you've written, Salsa.
On the note for the above, of course, I would point out that Wonder Woman, arguably FAR more than Superman, usually gets passed over for the memorable feats that people love to put in respect threads. Historically, taking a wider view in terms of scope of years than yours, Diana DID have a place in her comics similar to the one Superman traditionally has been held to have had in his.
If I've missed covering any question or major point you've presented to the present at this point, let me know.
Gender: Male Location: The Fortress of Solitude in Venus
This honestly does not apply. Like you said WW gets her big feats outside her title. If any people like US who read only WW trough JLA comics will tend to overstimate WW as we are reading the feats she does not get regularly on her book
As I said, your overall premise, as a general idea, I don't have severe disagreement with. In the context of the versus thread we were in?
Yes, I have great issue with it, not because of the idea itself, but because of all the implications it carries with it. Note that Riv himself, one of the 2 posters you're referring to, ALSO made my same objection, and noted he had experience with someone who carried your idea to the faulty conclusion of "he who has the most magazines has the most feats and therefore wins".
You dealt with one of my other main objections by clarifying you did not really intend to restrict the pool to titles with the characters name or moniker. At the least, that's what I get from the other 3 pages in this thread.
I think you'll agree: If you restrict, say, Wonder Woman TO her Wonder Woman title for feats, you have almost nothing to show for her. Restrict Superman to HIS titles and you still have a collection of many, if not most, of his best stunts.
There's one other thing, IF you want to carry this, as you've been phrasing it, as a general thing, and not specifically to Wonder Woman or Superman.
This is the real-life logistics counter to your premise.
Less published characters are generally lesser known and less popular.
They don't sell well. So stores tend to stop carrying the magazines of that character in favor of more popular ones. Gradually, they begin to disappear.
So, they become harder to find and collect. Often to the point where, the little you COULD theoretically get and read on lesser-known-less-popular character, is still practically unobtainable.
It is actually a similar reality that took comics out of many Mom and Pop stores. It was either Peter David or Kurt Busiek who actually explained the process to me, or at least the theory, in a surprise response on a forum like this one. He made the unlikely argument that comics, by keeping their selling prices low, actually lowered their circulation. For the simple fact that, compared to other publications, they made almost no money in sales for the business owners who stocked them.
With the Internet, this becomes at least slightly less of a problem, owing to the remarkable connectedness and spread of information it allows.
Anyway, in a general sense, that's the real-world answer to your main thread question.
Gender: Male Location: The Fortress of Solitude in Venus
Nah! Like you said the internet has changed things
I can actually and easily follow oscure characters like Aztek or Azrael with out any problem. After I read their "20" something comics compared to Batman where I have to read LOTS of comics and Batman's appearances are so many that is more likely I will skip by mistake some of them.
So reading the popular titles gives you that extra advantage of knowledge in which you get exposed to the lesser known characters just by proxy.
This is why if you read all the Superman titles you will be by default exposed to almost half of the tittles in which the less popular characters appear alongside Superman, but unfortunately is not on the same degree the other way around.
Since we have cleared pretty much this topic I will create the other one only involving post crisis stories canon and non canon. Hopefully I can do it with in the next day. I will include title of the comic and the fights.