Now I should preface this with the fact that outside of Thor I don't really care about them race/gender swapping characters.
Cap- Black
Spider-Man- Female or Black/Puerto Rican
Thor- Female
Giant man- Indian & Gay
Hulk- Korean
Ms Marvel- Muslim
Wolverjerk- Female
I'd also like to point out they did this with all of Pym's identities over the years
Pym- Ultron
Wasp- Jan and soon Hope (Red Queen)
Goliath- Black or Hawkeye
Yellow Jacket- Black & Female
Ant Man- a living breathing Douche and then a peeping Tom.
Some people like Stan Lee has said its just Marvel being lazy and human turd blossom Bendis has said this was done so that children of color can now pretend to be there favorite heroes as well.
I've never known of Black, Asian, then to go into religions (Muslims, Christians) who felt disenfranchised with the main comic companies because there wasn't any Black, Asian heroes. Because the fact is while on the whole there isn't as many heroes of that ethnicity I don't know of many people that have complained. There are heroes that are black that are very prominent in Marvel and DC in my opinion.
I just think Marvel is pandering to SJW's to get more appeal. Perhaps not full on but I think it plays a part.
I don't see a problem with a White Character (like Cap) ageing for example. So someone needs to take the mantle. I'd rather it be that Falcon takes the mantle because it is fitting for the story and lore and he just happens to be black because his creators made him so.
I care about the characters and how they work with eachother. I don't care about the colour you are but I don't think characters should suddenly become female and should switch ethnicities because the modern world is apparently sexist, racist etc according to certain groups that exist.
That part about Bendis saying kids can grow up now with a hero of their colour to aspire to. I again think that's silly.
Because for one thing I'm pretty sure there are hundreds of thousands of people who aren't white who have characters like Hulk, Spider-Man, Superman and Wolverine as idols. I could name countless other heroes but you understand my point.
It just kind of defeats Bendis's point. Almost like he's implying there isn't loads of Black, Asian (and other ethnicities) of children and Adults who don't have a rabid fandom for White characters. Heck we have users here who aren't white and they are huge fans of White heroes.
So in short I don't care for what race you are. I just think you should be careful of changing characters colours and genders for the sake of pandering to a certain culture and groups that have only just realised that apparently there is a shortage of non White superheroes (and villains as I know a lot of people like Villains, like Quanchi with Voldermort and stuff).
A good example on this topic would be Blue Marvel, Kevin Grievoux brought in a character with a good backstory. How he was encouraged to step down by J.F.K after he was revealed as being Black after his identity was revealed. Then he suddenly re-emerges. And look how he has been in the MCU. He's been a really good character.
We also have the recent Mighty Avengers comics where we have had 2 Black characters being prominently featured.
Blue Marvel
Monica Rambeau
Al Ewing has written some good comics where they have been working together and has made for a very good story. But osmething we notice is that they weren't given the roles they were in that comic because of their ethnicity were they?
They were given the roles because Al Ewing wanted to use the characters known as Blue Marvel and Spectrum, he didn't go,
"Oh I think I will pick these 2 characters because of their ethnicities. By doing this this makes us look better".
I just don't think we should pump in (now note these numbers are being used for examples, so if these seem like I'm overreacting it's just purely to do with examples. I could use the number 9 or 50 for example).
100 Female Characters
100 Black Characters
100 Asian Characters
100 Jewish Characters
100 Muslim Characters
100 Hindu Characters
Just because they're the ethnicity (religion and gender) that they are. I don't care if you add a Asian character into the MCU. But don't invent a character because he's Asian. Invent him because he has a really good well though out backstory. He has a cool costume design. Cool powers. But he just happens to be Asian. He wasn't made to appeal to Asian's. Because this way it'll look like a crap characters no matter what ethnicity you are. If a character is Asian, Black, Female, Jewish, Hindu, Christian let them be them ethnicities and religions be because that is what they are. I don't care if you're Black, White, Asian, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Blue, Orange, Rainbow, Magenta. As long as you are a good character as a whole and not invented solely because of your colour, gender and religious background then good luck to you.
Like mentioned previously Blue Marvel is what I would call an excellent example of this.
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Last edited by One_Angry_Scot on Aug 31st, 2015 at 02:53 AM
You know how movie studios care less and less about US box office these days, because they can make a killing in international markets like never before? It's the reason the percentages of foreign actors are up over a decade ago in American-made films, especially in blockbuster-style movies that will have a wide release. There will be exceptions, but this is the trend. Why this would be a surprise in other media that is becoming internationally consumed is beyond me. Marvel/Disney is simply adjusting to capitalize on a global scale.
One, that's not exactly true. Peter Parker and Thor-Odinson are still around, it's just *so are* Miles Morales and Thor-Jane.
Ms. Marvel is Muslim? That's because the old one is now Captain Marvel, and Kamala is probably more popular than she was! Or at least, more popular than Carol has been in decades. Carol's popularity also seems to be on the rise, just not as much as Kamala's. Kamala is pure awesome, btw.
Two, spicing things up is their jobs. New characters are a much more interesting way of doing that than some ways tried in the past. Like, the reason X-23 is becoming Wolverine is because due possibly to overuse, the sales of his books have been sliding for some time. Laura was able to do well enough in an ongoing when she wasn't Wolverine, so she seems like a good way to spice things up. Logan'll be back eventually- though I hear he's going to be around as Old Man Logan for awhile.
This is not unusual operating procedure for comic companies. Anyone remember when Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman were all replaced around the same time? I do. Granted, these seem to be planned to be longer lasting, but as a fair amount of plot foresight has been put into them and they're set up well, I don't see that as a problem. Hm, I'll also point out to when Flash had two active people going by the name (Wally and Jay), and Hawkeye doing similar for about the last 8 years.
The Sam Wilson Cap stuff I've read has been great. I dunno about Laura as Wolverine but she is a good character in her own right. Kamala is, as mentioned, awesome. Thor-Jane certainly is getting good reviews and considering other related circumstances (i.e. she's dying) it's the least likely to be permanent. Spider-man is just a side-by-side thing anyway so yay there.
Judging by the Bendis comment, sounds like you care about the race/gender change fairly a lot...
It's not that people necessarily complain so much, as when they are represented there's a, "Yay, someone who's more like me!" feeling. The people who do feel disenfranchised are less likely to complain and more likely to just not pick up a comic in the first place, as well.
And, personally, I just find it more realistic. The real world has all races and genders, the 'white male as default' thing is just pretty lazy.
Heck, look at all the white people who complain that they are getting somewhat less representation. Like, there are people honestly really angry about this. Non-white males are simply use to not getting people who look like them, but as it's not hard to see, representation matters to white guys, so it shouldn't be a surprise it matters to others. Just, y'know, in a more positive sense and less internet ragey.
Oh yes, one final thing: Apparently the books like Ms. Marvel and Thor are doing incredibly well in digital sales, in addition to respectively well in physical sales.
So to change the title a bit, it's kinda "Marvel replacing some popular characters with even more popular related characters. Also keeping the popular characters."
From a business sense, I believe you can see the advantage of that for Marvel.
Ok, fair enough. I find Bendis either really gets characters (Say, Kitty Pryde, Ultimate Spider-man), or... not (His Laura Kinney does not remotely speak like X-23 should).
Oh of course I think you're right in what you said 100%. Like I said with race I don't care what colour you are. As long as a character isn't made because he's that colour. It detracts from other parts of him/her.
I did have a problem with Bendis's comment. (i know you was addressing Pym here but I just wanted to reply) Not because of what you suggested. As like I mentioned race and gender (and religion mean nothing to me). I'd treat an Asian Jewish Female the same I'd treat every other type of race.
My problem with that comment is that it's like he's implying there hasn't been millions of non-White children (and Adults) who have held characters not of their ethnicity as idols. It's like he's saying generations of non-White children have grown up through the decades having no one at Marvel to support. Because that's a lie and I like to think we know that.
I understand that it's popular and it helps to make a story (and money which is ultimately their driving point). You mentioned Kamala, who I forgot to say is also a good character. Her faith hasn't become what she's about entirely. It's part of her character and not the whole.My only real problem as it stands with the current changes would be Lady Thor. And that's only because I just dislike the story and how it happened. Can't really comment on the other new introductions until we see them.
I know that if you were to look at it you would see a ratio of more White to Black/Asian characters. So by numbers non-Whites are unrepresented. My only warning is don't start bringing in 20 New characters and changing 20 Old ones and changing them to a different colour, religion solely because of that colour being not as prominent. Because when you do that you are only making a character because he's for example Samoan. And not because he's a badarse character along with his ethnicity which I think is better. Because we know this character has an interesting story.
My argument for the most part isn't based on current events. It's more to do with the future and what's to come.
I hope the female characters don't become cartoon Anita Sarkeesian's etc. By at large I haven't experienced the things I'm talking about. It's just something I worry about for the future.
Add 30 Black characters in by all means. But don't add them solely because they are Black. Add them in the vein of Blue Marvel. He may be black, but that isn't all we know about him. Is Kamala (thanks for reminding me of her). We know she subscribes to the Islamic faith. But are we bombarded with only that when se see her? No we get a good story surrounding that.
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Last edited by One_Angry_Scot on Aug 31st, 2015 at 11:59 AM
I understand your point. I again don't see it as a surprise (as you mentioned on your penultimate sentence).
I just worry that we will not invent a generation of Black Panther's, Blue Marvel's, Monica Rambeau's and Kamala Khan's. Instead we make new load of characters that are only designed because of their colour only. The people I listed in my first sentence are characters of different races and religions who weren't made solely because of their colour and religion.
Like I mentioned to Q99 my argument is coming mainly not from what is happening now. But in the near future. I just want Marvel to do the right thing for comics, everyone and the future.
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Last edited by One_Angry_Scot on Aug 31st, 2015 at 12:01 PM
It's more like...for every 30 characters/stories he writes like shit, he lucks out and gets 1 right. Him doing a passable Kitty and good Daredevil are flukes.
X-Men is the shittiest it's been in a while thanks to him....which is saying a lot since most of the post-Second Coming stuff was shit anyway. All he did was give us a bunch of forgettable new mutants, with dumb stories to boot.
AT LEAST CYCLOPS CAN MAKE X'S IN THE AIR WITH HIS ARMS THOUGH!
Last edited by StyleTime on Aug 31st, 2015 at 07:42 PM
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