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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Bane


Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Bane
Started by: DarthAnt66

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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
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No, kek.

Bane wins 10/10 though.


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 06:32 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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haven't come to a conclusion about who has the power edge which could end up being decisive given Kenobi's defensive style could give Bane the opportunity to turn this into a force battle rather than a saber duel which he has no chance of prevailing in.

Then again, you could argue that the rots senior novelization sets precedent for Kenobi being able to press someone with his soesu. While Dooku is good enough to get around this, Bane, is not.

If Kenobi does fight offensively here, as he did against Maul and Oppress, he should take this regardless of whatever force gap may be present here.

As it still seems plausible to me that Kenobi wields more power, and Bane possessing a power edge isn't necessarily sufficient to give him a win here, I'll side with Kenobi to take this more often than not.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 06:57 PM
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TenebrousWay
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Bane ragdolls. thumb up


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 06:59 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Bane ragdolls. thumb up

Even assuming Bane actually holds such a significant edge in power, it's questionable if Bane even gets the opportunity to use the power.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:00 PM
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Haschwalth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
No, kek.

Bane wins 10/10 though.

Well Well

http://imgur.com/llZurzO
http://imgur.com/V7bzbdf

Darth cognus states, Banes Raw power is the greatest she has seen, just after witnessing events of Ambria.

Time to update those lists.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:17 PM
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TenebrousWay
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Even assuming Bane actually holds such a significant edge in power, it's questionable if Bane even gets the opportunity to use the power.


The notion that Kenobi will press Bane indefinitely giving him no ground even for a step back is absurd. It's both out of character from Kenobi and also out of his skill level.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:18 PM
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Haschwalth
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Bane>Thon>Naga sadow with guantlets

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:32 PM
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Rockydonovang
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
The notion that Kenobi will press Bane indefinitely giving him no ground even for a step back is absurd. It's both out of character from [QUOTE=16323658]Originally posted by TenebrousWay Kenobi and also out of his skill level.

rereading the passage from ROTS, Kenobi never actually presses Dooku with his soresu as I thought he did, never mind then. Kenobi's going to be inclined tofight defensively.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by TenebrousWay Kenobi and also out of his skill level.

You act as if Kenobi couldn't close the space if Bane tries to get space. It's not exactly easy to gain ground against a more skilled opponent. And given his performances against Maul offensively, he's certainly sufficiently skilled to press Bane if he fights offensively, though that's out of character.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:39 PM
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TenebrousWay
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The question isn't if Kenobi "can press". Kenobi certainly will press Bane in sabers fight. The question is: Can Kenobi press Bane totally and utterly so he can't even take two steps back?" The answer to that is obviously no.


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:45 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
Well Well

http://imgur.com/llZurzO
http://imgur.com/V7bzbdf

Darth cognus states, Banes Raw power is the greatest she has seen, just after witnessing events of Ambria.

Time to update those lists.


laughing out loud

Never once is it stated or implied in there that Bane has more raw power than Thon. All it says is that the "raw power of the dark side emanating from him" was like "nothing she had ever felt." The latter part hardly being a comparison between Bane and Thon. thumb up


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:47 PM
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Haschwalth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
laughing out loud

Never once is it stated or implied in there that Bane has more raw power than Thon. All it says is that the "raw power of the dark side emanating from him" was like "nothing she had ever felt." The latter part hardly being a comparison between Bane and Thon. thumb up


She witnessed the devastation of Ambria, something Thon could only seal, and regarded Banes power to be above that, and this was a weakened POD Bane.
You can't scale thons power above marginally above the ambria feat, Bane grows a metric ton afterwards.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 07:53 PM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You act as if Kenobi couldn't close the space if Bane tries to get space. It's not exactly easy to gain ground against a more skilled opponent. And given his performances against Maul offensively, he's certainly sufficiently skilled to press Bane if he fights offensively, though that's out of character.

Just curious... in what fight in Star Wars have you ever seen where there hasn't been a single pause, or space gained between combatants? That happens so often in lightsaber duels (even between duelists with a very notable gap in skill, such as Anakin and Barriss, Anakin and unarmed Ventress, TCW movie Obi-Wan and Ventress, AOTC Dooku and Obi-wan, Seventh Sister and Ahsoka, Season 2 Vizlsa and Obi-Wan) that the notion that Obi-Wan, the traditionally defensive fighter, is going to completely change up the way he usually fights to keep Bane from getting any interval is absurd. Could you even name a single instance where Obi-Wan fights in a way where his opponents are unable to get a single pause or length of distance? And this is beside the fact that Bane has used his force powers while under offensive assault before.

This entire line of thinking simply doesn't exist on solid ground.


__________________

Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 08:00 PM
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carthage
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Kenobi without much difficulty


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"Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 09:05 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Just curious... in what fight in Star Wars have you ever seen where there hasn't been a single pause, or space gained between combatants? That happens so often in lightsaber duels (even between duelists with a very notable gap in skill, such as Anakin and Barriss, Anakin and unarmed Ventress, TCW movie Obi-Wan and Ventress, AOTC Dooku and Obi-wan, Seventh Sister and Ahsoka, Season 2 Vizlsa and Obi-Wan) that the notion that Obi-Wan, the traditionally defensive fighter, is going to completely change up the way he usually fights to keep Bane from getting any interval is absurd. Could you even name a single instance where Obi-Wan fights in a way where his opponents are unable to get a single pause or length of distance? And this is beside the fact that Bane has used his force powers while under offensive assault before.

This entire line of thinking simply doesn't exist on solid ground.


thumb up kbro, no offense, but trash argument tbh.


__________________

”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 09:30 PM
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XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: The Eternal Throne


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Haschwalth
She witnessed the devastation of Ambria, something Thon could only seal, and regarded Banes power to be above that, and this was a weakened POD Bane.
You can't scale thons power above marginally above the ambria feat, Bane grows a metric ton afterwards.


The strength in the force emanating from a single individual is different than the energies of a nexus, tbh. It doesn't make sense that Zannah would have to draw on the energies of Ambria (and she obviously wasn't wielding the full power of the Lake in that instant) to summon her tendrils (the most devastating technique we've ever seen her use) if the collective power of the entire nexus is less potent than PoD Bane, kek.


__________________

”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 09:36 PM
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Rockydonovang
freedom fighter

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Just curious... in what fight in Star Wars have you ever seen where there hasn't been a single pause, or space gained between combatants?

The question here would be where there hasn't been a pause significant enough for them to get a chance to abuse the force, which there certainly have been:

-> Season 2 Anakin vs Ventress (I'm not counting when Ventress is running away as part of the duel)

-> Season 5 1 v 1 between Kenobi and Maul

-> Season 6 Anakin and Kenobi vs Dooku

-> Grievous vs Jedi on Hypori

-> TPM Maul vs Qui-Gon

-> Ventress vs Fisto

-> Multiple engagements between Grievous and TCW Kenobi

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
That happens so often in lightsaber duels (even between duelists with a very notable gap in skill, such as Anakin and Barriss

Because Barriss was actively trying to flee, which I imagine Bane isn't going to be doing.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, Anakin and unarmed Ventress,

Right, because Ventress was running away.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
TCW movie Obi-Wan and Ventress

Only one I recall using tk was Kenobi who at this point was significantly better than Ventress as a duelist.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, AOTC Dooku and Obi-wan
__

I don't recall either force user using tk on the other.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
, Seventh Sister and Ahsoka, Season 2 Vizlsa and Obi-Wan) that the notion that Obi-Wan, the traditionally defensive fighter, is going to completely change up the way he usually fights to keep Bane from getting any interval is absurd.
__

Right, I already admitted this would be out of character. As noted, I was basing my earlier assumption off a misremembering of the fight between Anakin, Kenobi and dooku where I thought Kenobi pressed Dooku with his Soresu.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Could you even name a single instance where Obi-Wan fights in a way where his opponents are unable to get a single pause or length of distance? And this is beside the fact that Bane has used his force powers while under offensive assault before.
__

There's Kenobi's 1 v 1's vs Maul, his engagements with Ventress ect.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
This entire line of thinking simply doesn't exist on solid ground. [/B]

Except that we have multiple fights in the mythos where neither opponent got an opportunity to use the force. Not to mention we have situations like Vos vs Dooku where even though a opponent is able to use the force, it's not sufficient to end the duel.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2017 11:22 PM
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Emperordmb
LSDMB

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The question here would be where there hasn't been a pause significant enough for them to get a chance to abuse the force, which there certainly have been:

-> Season 2 Anakin vs Ventress (I'm not counting when Ventress is running away as part of the duel)

-> Season 5 1 v 1 between Kenobi and Maul

-> Season 6 Anakin and Kenobi vs Dooku

-> Grievous vs Jedi on Hypori

-> TPM Maul vs Qui-Gon

-> Ventress vs Fisto

-> Multiple engagements between Grievous and TCW Kenobi

Yeah... except there's a difference between fights where nobody used TK, and fights where there wasn't an opening to use TK if the person was so inclined.

but yeah, the Kamino duel with Ventress and Anakin involved Ventress actually TKing him at the start, then a two second pause where they were standing poised and sizing each other up where either of them could've made use of TK if they were so inclined.

As for the 1v1 with Maul when they briefly disengaged with Obi-Wan jumping off of the cliff before Maul reengaged him in lightsaber combat, either of them could've used TK if they were so inclined. Then another couple of pauses that lasted a few seconds where... again, either of them could've used TK if they were so inclined, then when Obi-Wan ran over to check on Gallia, another opening where either could've used TK.

As for the Oba Diah duel in season 6, there was a pause where they were squaring off for a second after stepping outside that could've been used for TK, a moment where despite Dooku being there Anakin was able to utilize TK to try and save Obi-Wan, another pause between Anakin and Dooku where either could've attempted TK, then another pause after Obi-Wan rejoined the fight just before the Pykes showed up, and then Dooku actually using TK against Anakin, Obi-Wan, and a group of Pykes.

As per Grievous vs the Jedi, there were absolutely instances in that fight where Jedi utilized TK, such as Shaak and Mundi.

As per Maul vs Qui-Gon in TPM, fair enough but that is more the exception than the rule, and was a fight between two primarily offensive duelists, which is not only not the case here, but Bane's opponent is the defensive duelist.

As per the Fisto vs Ventress fight, I'll take your word for it cause I don't feel like looking through it, but its the same as the above, more an exception than the rule, with two primarily offensive duelists going at it.

As per the multiple examples of Grievous vs Kenobi, the Utupau fight in the unfinished TCW episodes is the only one that comes to mind that matches your description, and that's because the fight ended extremely quickly. In every other fight he either uses TK, or has the opportunity to at some point but doesn't.

So no, only like two of your counterpoints hold which are the exceptions rather than the rules, and both had primarily offensive duelists which isn't the case here. Not to mention, even then your two examples only hold if we absolutely assume that characters need a pause or physical space in order to utilize their Force powers. We actually have examples contradicting this notion such as Koth force pushing Grievous while under Grievous's assault with a broken arm, Maul pushing Obi-Wan while the two were bladelocked, Dooku using the Force against Anakin on Naboo while Anakin had him bladelocked on his back with one hand wrapped around his throat, Dooku shoving Anakin onto the ground in the TCW movie while they were clashing blades, and ironically enough examples from Bane in all three books of the trilogy, and also ironically enough twice in the Ahsoka vs Vader duel where they TKed each other despite being engaged in a clash of blades.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Because Barriss was actively trying to flee, which I imagine Bane isn't going to be doing.

Right, because Ventress was running away.

I don't think Bane would do this either because I think he has nothing to fear from Kenobi and that Kenobi is completely outmatched, but assuming you are correct, and that Obi-Wan outmatches Bane in a duel to such a ridiculous degree that Bane wouldn't be able to use TK, I feel to see why Bane wouldn't simply leap, run, or engage in some form of retreat for a few seconds to get an opening to unleash his force powers through.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Only one I recall using tk was Kenobi who at this point was significantly better than Ventress as a duelist.

Yes but you're missing the point. There were several pauses in that fight or moments where there was enough distance between them that if Ventress was inclined to use TK in those moments she absolutely could have.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I don't recall either force user using tk on the other.

Again though, there were moments where there was enough of a pause or space for Obi-Wan to have been able to utilize TK if he chose to. Not successfully given Dooku's significantly greater power, but the opening was still there.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Right, I already admitted this would be out of character. As noted, I was basing my earlier assumption off a misremembering of the fight between Anakin, Kenobi and dooku where I thought Kenobi pressed Dooku with his Soresu.

So then the notion of Obi-Wan aggressing Bane so much he couldn't use his TK is a moot point to argue.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Except that we have multiple fights in the mythos where neither opponent got an opportunity to use the force. Not to mention we have situations like Vos vs Dooku where even though a opponent is able to use the force, it's not sufficient to end the duel.

There's absolutely a major difference between neither character using TK, and neither character having an opportunity to use TK, and that's something you're failing to grasp, and such opportunities and moments are observable in nearly every duel in Star Wars, as well as the numerous examples from characters using TK while engaged in lightsaber combat.

Again notion that Bane won't be able to use the force here because he'd be too pressed in a duel is both patently absurd and absolute nonsense. I fundamentally disagree with where you have Bane as a duelist and force wielder, but even if you're right about the extent of the gap between Bane and Obi-Wan as duelists this point still doesn't stand.


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Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"

Last edited by Emperordmb on Sep 12th, 2017 at 04:09 AM

Old Post Sep 12th, 2017 04:04 AM
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AncientPower
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I find it funny how, at least mathematically, Bane was surviving an onslaught of attacks from Raskta Lsu greater than the number it supposedly took for Grievous to overwhelm Kenobi's Soresu in ROTS.

Just a thought.


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Old Post Sep 13th, 2017 03:13 AM
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carthage
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He survived while protected head to toe in lightsaber proof orbalisks and amped by multiple focal points of darkside energy, lmao

Bane doesn't even have saber feats that place him above Qui gon


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Old Post Sep 13th, 2017 03:28 AM
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