Quinlan Vos (dark disciple)vs Darth Vader Rebels Lothal
Quinlan Vos (dark disciple)vs Darth Vader Rebels Lothal
after Rebels vader neutralizes Kanan Jarrus and Ezra as you saw in the Rebels Episode Lothal sytem,
just as Vader is about to murder Kanan and Ezra with a lightsaber and forcechoke Ezra
quinlan vos shows up and orders Vader to put them down.
Quinlan and Vader look at one another while Kanan and Ezra flee on a ship for another day.
frst question 1- who wins
if you think Vos wins, Vader can be "rescued" by storm troopers to preserve continuity.
Vader can "lose", be saved by his troopers, and live to fight another day in Rebels. make a cool story since a Vader lose would obviously entice Sidious to replace Vader with Vos.
second question - do you hope to see this fight in a future episode of Rebels?
its clear we will eventually see Vader vs Ashoka Tano and Vader will kill Ashoka Tano.
itd make a fun episode of rebels, which i think is far inferior to tcw. vos is fully flesh vader lost most of his force potential when he got burned to a crisp
Because he really went all out with his force abilities against Kenobi, right?
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
if Rebels does feature Vos vs Vader, for entertainment reasons it will not be "easy".
Rebels might even have Vos defeat Vader, with emperor asking Vos to kill Vader and offering a place by his side, convincing Vader he must be rid of him.
People honestly think Disney will let Vader loose to Ahsoka, let alone a random ass Jedi... Lmao. Disney isn't Lucas. This is a company that is setting up a Vader fanboy as the major villain of their next trilogy.
Vos proved to be vastly superior to Ventress, who can easily uproot trees with a gesture, and slow the fall of her ship, The Banshee. Not to mention he did beat Dooku in a saber duel, and overpower him via physical strength. Other than force augmentation, I don't remember if Vos had a force advantage in it's offensive applications such as TK.
That said, Vader wins. He muses being more powerful than Anakin--who has consistently matched Dooku in duels and powerful enough that Dooku's own power only gave Dooku an edge vs being "throw around like a toy--with the gap between him and Anakin being pretty large, IIRC. Plus that, Vader's armor can withstand saber strikes and having two small imperial walkers collide on top of him unscathed, two walkers that he casually levitated off of him seconds later. When being hunted by Twilek freedom fighters, Vader pulled one of their freighters from the sky. The book referred to these freighters as "big ships," so I'm assuming they were bigger than the average ones, but of course another interpretation could be that they were called big ships because freighters are larger than shuttles or tie fighters, etc; regardless, the interior of freighters are very spacious and are as big as small apartments, and can house several people comfortably, having bed rooms and such (well the disk shaped ones anyway, which is how the twilek freighters were described). Also, Vader, while in mid-flight, targeting and tearing open three vulture droids with one single gesture, while they too were in mid-flight, is not only a display of raw TK but a very precise and refined use of it. Then with one handed force pushes, we had him shattering lyleks--huge creatures with shells capable of shrugging off blaster bolts (see Obi Wan vs gutkurrs on youtube to see just how good their resistance to blaster bolts are and durability since they have comparable armor/shells). In one of the new canon comics, Vader casually lifted the front part of an AT-AT walker, while simultaneously ripping it apart, Magneto style. Vader's physical strength is such that with one arm he lifted the queen lylek (who towers over the other lyleks), and gripped both of Kanan's arms, disarming Kanan and sending him flying, rendering him unconscious.
As far as pure lightsaber ability, Vos's advantages over Dooku seemed to be his physicality. It's said Vos was unpredictable, but in terms of what? Pacing? Pretty vague term the author threw in there, and one hard to use as an advantage in these type of discussions, unless one is a master of multiple forms and can switch, or even a variety of other martial arts that can be used in conjunction with saber dueling. But that wasn't the case with Vos, as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that changed was his physicality upon getting stronger, everything he knew came from his experience as a jedi and his retraining under Ventress as a dark sider, which, oddly, Dooku capitalized on only after Vos opened his mouth and mentioned it. Dooku should have recognized it after a long exchange. So, yeah, that's my stance on the term "unpredictable" being used as an argument, unless it's explained. For instance, Savage can be labeled as being unpredictable here due to his unusual strength. I just see that term being used here just because the word was used in a book as if it can't be applied the other way around.
BTW, I'm obviously only referring to their canon feats for this thread. Vader's a beast already, with even more to come, huh Cart? Why is he so scared of anal head? Lol, jk.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
His advantage was mainly speed over Dooku, and this is an advantage which he enjoys a noticeable advantage over Vader. Canon Dooku can move faster than Obi wan can perceive, make his blade appear everywhere, ETC. Vos's speed/mobility advantage to ANH Vader is a huge advantage. Vader is vastly more powerful, but as seen in his duel with Kanan/Kenobi he is a duelist foremost.
Its a no brainer who'd win there, Vader lost most of his better feats with the end of the Legends canon. Vos fought evenly with Ventress while poisoned/against an amped Ventress, and demolished Ventress after having been tortured for days by Dooku and was faster than she was nearly overwhelming her. Vader struggled to put down Kenobi who was a shadow of his former self. Vader's preference to engage in a duel, likely means he loses before using his force abilities.
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
It was a combination of both speed and strength, and speed adds a great deal more to one's strength, with the impact of the clashes being even more taxing, thus slowing the opponent considerably. Strength isn't a factor against Vader, though Vos's speed might council out Vader's own strength advantage.
And it's not that simple. We are discussing who is all around more powerful/skilled and what they are capable of when driven to kill, not what they are inclined to do against people who are inferior, unless specified otherwise. Therefore you can't use people like Kanan as a representation of what Vader is capable of. All that fight did was show Vader was so far superior to them that he had the decision not to go full throttle.
For example, Palpatine chooses to torture, bully or play with his victims unless he is forced to unleash himself. That's because mostly everyone except for Yoda and now perhaps Windu are so far below Sidious that he can choose how he wants to fight, and is not forced.
As for Obi Wan, which new canon source states he's a shadow of his former self? Because Vader musings eight years after his fight with Kenobi suggest he is more powerful than Anakin in a combatant context. Only thing that changed about Anakin was his ability to reach his full potential after becoming Vader, but it didn't hinder his ability to become more powerful at all. If Obi Wan is a shadow of his former self, then that would only suggest Vader was holding back, otherwise Kenobi should have been force fodderized. Even Maul is capable of subduing Kenobi with the force, and that was apparently Kenobi in his prime, if he indeed slowed. Maul isn't as powerful as Vader. Of course you could say "well that was pure fencing," but if one is holding back to any degree than it's hard to establish by how much unless you are that person, but we do know there was some yielding and that's all we do know. That's why I didn't get into a saber portion, until Vader gets more exposure against better combatants. But with all the hype Vader is getting in new canon, his own musings (don't think he's lying to himself) and showings so far, I don't see it as being that cut in dry in Vos's favor, TBH.
__________________ "The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Last edited by Dominis on Sep 3rd, 2015 at 02:25 AM
Um there is no mention of Quinlan being physically stronger than Dooku in their duel, He won by speed, constant motion, and unorthodox movements over Dooku. Its relevant because Vader's style is more centered and confined due to his limited mobility, and even Dooku's more polished style was circumvented by Vos's constant motion/unpredictability. He's described as having danced around Dooku:
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He drew his lightsaber against Kanan and went straight for a duel, its not Vader's MO to instantly abuse his power. Canon Vader hasn't beaten an opponent as skilled as Ventress or has a feat comparable to besting Dooku, his showings aren't comparable at all in terms of skill.
He was being pressed in the duel and couldn't break his defense. He may have been more powerful, but he never attempted to use his force abilities due to being pressed in the fight. In the fight's depiction in the novel he never had an explicit edge in skill nor did it state anything about holding back.
Glad to see you agree about Vader dying due to not having better feats
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
Sep 2nd, 2015 07:32 PM
