Its pretty dumb to say Yoda was defeated in the film. Sure, Yoda admits it, but all he needed to do was use force jump a few times to get back up to where Sidious was, all Yoda did was fall down. Just as well, Yoda's tutaminis had the same effect on Sidious as it did on Yoda, he fell down just like Yoda did, only difference is, he was able to hang on, Yoda wasn't. So that counts as a loss? Thats some dumb-ass logic, my friend. Even Yoda was dumb for saying he lost.
Registered: May 2005
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Re: Sidious vs Yoda
Neutral ground?
As in: An enviroment in which Sidious doesn't benefit from the fact, that the Force had shifted towards the Dark Side, which gave him a boost in terms of power and diminished the Jedis (read: Yoda's) ability to use the Force?
That aside: Yoda did probably disarm Sidious, despite fighting him, when Sidious was in a position of advantage. So I'd give sabers to Yoda. And the Force? In the final seconds of their duel, Yoda began to push back Sidious before the Force energy between them exploded, which would suggest he's the slightly more powerful Force user between the two. But then, he probably lacks the offensive potential to really "defeat" Sidious in a force fight. So I'd call that a draw. Following from there, Yoda is going to win most "all out fights" against Sidious. And I'm inclined to say that, if you apply the "neutral setting" mentioned above, he is going to win every fight against Sidious.
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Registered: Feb 2015
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Re: Re: Sidious vs Yoda
Well I've never considered that the imbalance of the force is what gave him his power and I'm not inclined to now nor will I ever be inclined to believe so. With that a neutral ground I mean him disarming him in the senate room, this neutral ground gives Sidious gets to use his force speed the way he wants to, Yoda can't fall from a high place, no one is hindered. So balance of the force has and will never be a factor in any of the threads I create or debate in as I don't believe that had anything to do with it. The Imbalance of the force he to get there some how and that woudl mean the dark spiders Bent it to their will which shows great power. Then when you look at DE Sidious he puts both ROTS and ROTJ incarnations of himself to utter shame and guess what if there was an imbalance in the force if would be for the lightside and guess what he kicked the greatest practioners of ito butt. So that "theory" of yours while I say plausible unlikely.
Even split in everything sans sabers only where Yoda has 0,8125% of better chances.
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Yoda lost to Palpatine only becasue he was in tactical disadvantage from the start. Sidious tried to run at the beggining, so Yoda had to chasing him all the time.
Besides that, Yoda already won a saber fight, according to script Sidious was disarmed. They were about equals in a Force fight (Yoda had the upper hand in their fight in TCW though).
Stover's novel is obvious BS here, and - since it contradicts the movie's version - it shouldn't be even treat as a canon source.
It should be a split, or 5,5/10 for Yoda (on neutral ground)
LOL @ Yoda > Sidious. Calling it a stalemate is the least stressful way of looking at it but if y'all wanna prove slight superiorities, Sidious will come on top at the end.
The script/junior novel have Yoda disarm Sidious, but it's otherwise confirmed that he didn't disarm Sidious. I've had a mind blank, though, as I can't remember the source itself or anything that would point to it. There's also a bunch of sources saying Yoda and Sidious are equals (again, can't remember if there's any referring to dueling specifically).
Yoda disarmed him while Sidious was in a disadvantageous position as he had to stand still and fight Yoda without pulling off any acrobatic stunts which is not how he usually duals(not to mention missing a saber) while Yoda wasn't experiencing the disadvantage of his height due to the platforms shape.
I never said Sidious has the edge, I said they should be about equal but if people start making arguments based on the smallest of details to give Yoda the edge, I can simply return the favor.
Sidious had the upper hand in the TK fight cause he positioned himself better just like Yoda had the upper hand in the dual cause of the same reason. Better usage of environment seems like a determining factor there. Its probably cause they are so close in every department.
However, let us not forget one thing: Sidious had already won in the big picture and had everything to lose where Yoda had nothing to lose. He was also there to assassinate Sidious. This is an awkward situation for Sidious since as a dark sider and a master of manipulating his rage, being on the defensive is not a very practical stand for him. On a flat terrain with no morals etc, if I had to pick a side, I'd pick Sidious as he still managed to have the upper hand at the end of the fight despite all his disadvantages but I'm still suggesting that calling it a stalemate is a healthy way of approaching it.
Registered: Feb 2015
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Well that could be to get the force advantage. By going into the senate arena he would have been able to do everything he did. Throw the pods and lightning. However that doesn't detract from the fact that Sidious didn't fight the way he normally does, using his force speed the way he would want to.
Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Heavens of Mystic
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Or that he had to end the fight and he felt more confident with his force powers. Good point though.
He would have access to the pods to throw at Yoda.
That's what he's meant for. To jump from place to place. That's how Ataru works. He jumps from spot to spot, and being so small it would be even harder for Sidious to hit anything.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Re: Re: Re: Sidious vs Yoda
Oh. I missed that one...
I'm totally surprised. A guy named Sidious ignoring a fact that would make the character Sidious look weaker? Gosh. Who would have thought about that?!
Come again? This time in English, please.
From what I've understood, let me just say this: Your beliefs are entirely irrelevant in debates here. We deal with canon. Canon states clearly, that Sidious received a noticeable boost in power from the unbalancing in the Force while the Jedi's ability to use the Force were diminished. So, for a "truely neutral" setting, Sidious would be less powerful while Yoda would be more powerful.
@Sinious
One word for you: Wrong!
I've demonstrated mathematically, that the Senate pod is a position of advantage for Sidious, because of what it would mean to fight a foe with Yoda's height on equal ground right here. I guess, that not having to sacrifice 1/3 to 1/2 of his range advantage and 2/3s of the manouvers you can utilize, in order to be capable of hitting your opponent, counts as advantage.
Because disarming an opponent in a lightsaber fight is "a small detail" when attempting to compare the fencing skill of the two beings involved in the fight?
Wrong. See above.
And it is Sidious who picks the Senate pod for the lightsaber fight, not Yoda. I don't think that Sidious would move the fight to a place in which he would be at disadvantage. Which he doesn't, as demonstrated in the posting linked above.
Yoda, fighting from a position of disadvantage, apparently disarmed Sidious in a lightsaber fight.
Yoda on equal ground with Sidious, was about to defeat him in the Force contest, too, just before the Force energy exploded. Sidious was pushed from leaning forward into his attack to leaning backwards during that brief contest.
The only reason why Yoda lost was because there weren't fighting on equal ground. He wouldn't have lost his lightsaber permanently by Sidious' final attack and there wouldn't have been a possibility to drop down from a rather great height. And, of course, we wouldn't have Clone Troopers on their way to save the Chancellor, as was the case in RotS.
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Registered: Feb 2015
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Sidious vs Yoda
Canon says he received a significant boost from the death of his master. Once again to bend the force to a specific side shows great power. I agree Yoda is powerful, but not more powerful than Sidious. If he were than why would the novel say that Yoda couldn't defeat Sidious? He's not more powerful in the force. Maybe in sabers he's more skilled, but even that is up for debate. The imbalance of the force I shall never be apart of anything involving me because once gain to cause the imbalance requires great power. To cloud the vision of the Jedi council requires great power. If you could show me where it says the imbalance of the force caused Sidious to receive a power up would be nice. If that was the case then why didn't Luke just crush Sidious in Dark Empire? The force would be on Luke's side, and he does have the most force potential of any living being as of Dark Empire yet he was beaten by the Emperor. Another example. Maul and Obi. If the force were helping the dark side then why was Obi able to stalemate and beat maul and his brother at one time. Anakin and Obi. Same thing. If you could provide the canon source that actually says and explains this that would be better.
Your point of Sidious being weaker is speculation. If what you say is true we don't know how powerful Sidious is. We just take Sidious where he is and what we see.
My feelings don't matter? Who created this thread? My feelings and intentions decide this match? So my feelings annd intentions are that the force never increased Sidious to the degree you speak or even close, and that a neutral setting for what you describe is not the one I describe. It woudl be impossible to know. I told you what I meant by neutral, so you can either take it or leave it.
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Last edited by EmperorSidious2 on Oct 4th, 2015 at 06:22 PM
Considering Sidious, not Yoda retreated to that stand, no. There's no actual evidence that Sidious was 'disadvantaged' +The fact that he retreated from neutral grounds leads credence to the idea that Yoda was winning up until the Grand Convocation chamber.
Registered: Feb 2015
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I can go into a cramped space to get from point A to point B doesn't change the fact it's uncomfortable and cramped. Sidious isles his force speed in certain ways, and the cramped spaces made it difficult for Sidious to use his force speed to the effective point he did agaisnt Windu or maul and savage. He could ahve retreated to the pod to gain the force advantage.
Thanks Scribble!
Sep 11th, 2015 06:37 PM
