Thanks. There is one more thing: at the end of that fight, it seemed that Yoda had the upper hand just before that Force explosion. Just as in TCW. But this time, Yoda was worse position (he was on the edge of pod), and he fall. On neutral ground, in vision, Sidious was the one who fall from that bridge.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Yoda specialized in a fighting style to make up what disadvantage?
His height compared to a normal person standing on equal ground with him and his reach compared to a person standing on equal ground with him. Most of Yoda's movements, as I've demonstrated in the linked posting, are happening on ground level, because part of his fighting style is capitalizing on the fact that - usually - his opponents almost need to bend down in order to hit him (see Dooku locking sabers with him in AotC). I've demonstrated the latter with pure math. So?
This is taken away from him by moving the fight to the podium.
What "unnatural circumstances" are you talking about?
First off: I've already demonstrated, that the podium was not an disadvantage for Sidious. It's just math. Stop arguing facts. Thanks. That aside: What acrobatic stunts? The multiple ones he does utilize against Mace and the other Jedi coming to capture him? LOL.
Excuse me.
Can we take a moment of our time and consider the fact that [b]Sidious tried to run from Yoda, after experiencing the power of the Jedi Master first hand. So what we know is, that Sidious was impressed enough by that demonstration to think he won't win this fight. Mind you: Against an opponent that he thought he could destroy easily, right before getting his ass shoved across his own desk.
Yoda still does not have an advantage there. Fact.
Red herrings, sorry excuses.
"I can't refute your points, so I'll just say, that they don't make sense. Begone, argument!"
Seriously?
I'm referring to the movie, which is the highest form of canon, additional information from the script, which is another form of G-canon.
Oh, well.
Maybe, because Sidious, as you may have noticed, it about three times Yoda's height. So, even assuming that they are equal in the Force, Sidious, being aided by the Force in a similar fashion, would be capable of jumping higher / farther than Yoda.
You also appear to have missed the pod that Yoda did throw at Sidious. Against gravity, Sidious doesn't even attempt to stop it [like Yoda did with the aforementioned pod being thrown at him], but jumps away. Likewise he didn't attempt to push against the pod when Yoda had just stopped it. Maybe because he suspected, that he wouldn't win such a direct force contest?
Likewise, I don't see how Yoda losing his saber demonstrates Sidious' "suremacy" in the Force. Given how Yoda instantly catches Sidious lightning and then pushes the Sith Lord backwards, that bit of the fight supports the idea, that Yoda is the more powerful between them - much like that caught pod does.
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Then why does Yoda keep jumping upwards while fighting to match their heights and suffer from stamina instead of staying low and let his short height "advantage" be an advantage when facing opponents on neutral ground?
The weird shape of the platform they fought on like I said.
Like I said, I didn't read your 20 pages long essays in another thread so no you haven't and considering how the fighting style of Yoda contradicts with your claim(the need to jump upwards), I don't think any mathematical explanation is gonna prove your point.
So what? Yoda's TK has nothing to do with Sidious' cockiness as a duelist. Also, if we're going there, then Sidious took out Yoda with one burst of lightning and could've easily killed him there. It would've been the humiliation of the millennia. The force exchange in the beginning of the fight doesn't really mean much unless you wanna concede to "Sidious can kill Yoda with 1 quick attack+a following deathblow".
Read above.
Supporting evidence on my claim here which is "genius' can make mistakes in mid combat in SW Universe". Though I'm pretty sure the reason they fought there is cause Lucas wanted the fight to look more epic but whatevs.
The script itself depicts the senate platform as "confined space" which works a lot better for Yoda than Sidious for obvious reasons. lol
Do you have any proof on this? That height determines the jumping capabilities of force users? If not, I won't be able to take this seriously as it doesn't make sense. Also, that difference shouldn't really make such a huge difference in where they manage to place themselves in combat especially considering the Yoda's superiority amirite?
Yeah, instead he laughs at Yoda's attempt to throw it back which again could be due to his arrogance. Its pretty clear in his facial expression actually.
About the force clash, 2 quotes where in one it says "Sidious appeared doomed" and on the other it says "Yoda had reached the limits of his strength." They don't necessarily contradict each other as an explanation of this sort can be made: Yoda was there to kill Sidious. It is only natural that he went all out and got depleted quicker than Sidious where Sidious kept more of his power and didn't unleash it as suddenly as Yoda did. This may have caused Sidious to look overwhelmed for a moment. However, if the force fight kept on occurring, Yoda might've fallen short in keeping up and lose the force contest same as Sidious might've been eventually overwhelmed. However, it ended with a stalemate and they are depicted as equals so again:
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
He doesn't. Yoda flips sideways around the side of the platform, because there is no height to match. They are on matching heights, which is completely unusual for Yoda.
Which was much more of an disadvantage for Yoda than it was for Sidious.
So, you're an ignoramus. Very nice. Then let me just quote myself, so that the people who are willing to read arguments before replying to them (e.g. every reasonable debater on this forum) can see the point you refuse to answer:
Your maximum reach with a weapon would be, as I said before, having it extended straigth, with the arm in a 90 degree ankle relative to your upper body. Now, holding a weapon in hand and lowering it with the arm extended, will – obviously – have the tip of the weapon move in a quarter of a circle from the aforementioned position to one where your arm is essentially parallel to your body. And now, while your absolute reach doesn't decrease (since the tip of the weapon is always at the same distance from a reference point on your body, e.g. your shoulder) your reach in relation to your body does, the more you move the weapon towards the ground. And it does so uniformly, given the circular movement.
[...] So the possible range of ankles you can swing your weapon at Yoda (i.e. 66 centimeter high target) would be from 30 degrees (hitting his feet on groundlevel) to 57/58 degrees (glancing hit on top of his head). Thus, the tip of your weapon (i.e. your maximum range) will be between 80 and 105 centimeters away from your body, while attempting to hit Yoda. That means, your range decreases by an amount of 36 to 52 percent compared to its maximum.
Now for Yoda. Assuming that the same proportions apply on Yoda that apply for humans – which appears to be the case from visual evidence, we can conclude that Yoda's arms are about 25 centimeters long. Now adding the length of his blade. The hilt has been noted with a length of 14 centimeters. From visual evidence, we can grasp the length of Yoda's blade, with appears to be round about 60 centimeters, giving Yoda a maximum range of 85 centimeters (tip of blade with arm extended). That means, if Yoda utilizes his full reach (on equal ground) and you attempt to land a hit on him, your range advantage is a grant total of 5 to 25 centimeters compared to 80 centimeters, if he's on one level with your shoulders.
So tell me once again: Who is in a position of advantage when they move to the chancellors podium? Yoda, who essentially gains nothing, with the exception of not having to jump as high to flip over Sidious head? Or Sidious, who negates a heavy loss of reach (one third to a half ot it actually) compared to fighting Yoda on equal ground? We may just ask ourselves who picks that place for the fight in order to arrive at the correct conclusion: Sidious.
Emphasis mine.
If Sidious would engage Yoda on equal ground, he would sacrifice 36 to 52 percent of his reach advantage on the small Jedi Master, because he would always need to aim his strikes on an opponent with a height of centimeters. Which would, of course, also limit his fencing style to all movements that would usually be directed at the legs of an opponent, which would be Yoda's height. Or, if you acknowledge that, usually, all body parts of a regular sized opponent (1.8 meters) can be targeted, about 2/3s of your combat movements become absolutely worthless.
Having Yoda move to the side of the podium while standing in the middle does negate the decrease of reach advantage and puts Yoda in a position that makes him easier to fight [because now being on "torso level" of a regular sized opponent].
The entirety of the fight? Laughable, considering how much actually "acrobatics" Sidious comes up with over the course of the action. Furthermore: He is fighting against Yoda, who is by far more dependant upon space for acrobatics than Sidious is, rendering this point totally mood.
Much like Yoda could have sliced him to pieces, while Sidious was recovering from getting his ass shoved across his own desk?
As this applies vice versa, I once more see much point here. And as far as humiliation goes, Sidious doing a headstand on his desk-chair tops Yoda on the ground quite easily in that regard.
Yes. Do so.
Which is entirely irrelevant to this discussion, because Sidious moved into a position of advantage for himself. He did not make a mistake.
Oh. Does it now? Last time I checked, Yoda was far more into the "flip around opponents and do weird accrobatics" business than Sidious. So maybe it doesn't work "a lot better" for him than it does for his opponent.
I was referring to their raw physical capabilities, which are aided by the force. It's just logical that Yoda, with 0.66 meters of heigt, can't jump as high or far as Sidious, who is almost three times a big. So Sidious would need less force energy to cross a distance than Yoda or - using the same amount of energy - would get higher or over a greater distance. If that "doesn't make sense" to you, you're rather dense.
Urm. What "huge" difference are you talking about?
Before Sidious starts throwing the first pods, Yoda was landing precisely one or two raws below the Sith Lord. That would be a difference of a few meters that Sidious jumped father / higher. And that might very well be due to his advantage in physical height compared to his opponent.
He still could have stopped that pod from being thrown at him, instead of jumping down from his position and even losing sight of his opponent due to that. Especially if we consider, that he had gravity working for him, where Yoda stopped the pod against it.
I'm not going to accept your personal version of the fight - or that in the novel / script - over the highest form of canon. And that clearly shows that, after Sidious is pressing Yoda with his force lightning, the Jedi Master, looking into Sidious eyes, inspiries a grimace of terror in the Sith Lord, who bends backward just before the energy between them explodes. It's pretty obvious, that Yoda was about to win that power-struggle, much like he won the lightsaber fight. Or, if we make it short and assume the best for Sidious:
Lightsaber: Yoda > Sidious
Force: Yoda = Sidious (each of them can't kill the other with it)
All out: Yoda (because of the Force result).
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Oct 5th, 2015 08:56 PM
