 |
Mithrandir
The Grey Wanderer
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
someone read matrix and philisophy, didnt we Tevesh?
__________________
Where is the Horse and the Rider?
Where was the horn that was blowing?
They have passed liked rain on the mountains.
Like Wind in the Meadows.
The days have gone down in the west.
Pella i amoni tenn' lumbule
|
May 30th, 2003 11:56 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Karma Toreall
Darth Karma
 Gender: Male
Location: Indiana |
Soory im not so smart.......... what is philisophy?
__________________
Only The Strong Survive
|
|
May 31st, 2003 01:23 AM |
|
|
| |
|
BEST TRINITY
Senior Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Who Knows. Why we had dejavu in our lives. Im always had a question in my mind why dejavus. I always doubt of this. Can we really c a short episodes of our past lives?????
|
|
May 31st, 2003 05:06 AM |
|
|
| |
|
General Kaliero
F = ma, beeyotches.
 Gender: Male
Location: "Kidnapping" Peach |
I get prophetic dreams. Does that mean I'm only half-plugged? Is my neck loose?
Someone screw it back on.
Oh, and I searched that website on Dogpile after going to it. Object that came up the most had to do with MENTAL HOSPITAL PATIENTS. Does that mean something?
__________________
WARNING: The above post may contain sarcasm and/or sophisticated satire. Any psychological damage sustained is purely your fault.
|
|
May 31st, 2003 05:50 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Reveiller
Vash The Stampede
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
the matrix philosphy kicks ass its really interesting
everything that platos says on the allegory of tha cave makes sense
everything that hilary putnam said in brain in a vat makes sense
robert nozicks experience machine makes sense
peter ungers evil scientist makes sense also and all the other ones u should read them its cool i made a paper on them and i took a philosophy class and we looked at that 2
__________________
Vash The Stampede
|
|
May 31st, 2003 06:47 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
 Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Jesus, you are doing well if you actually understand Putnam. That's a very basic analysis they give of his work there, as they thrmselves admit, though I am sure you studied him in more detail in your class.
For those of you who don't know, Putnam had an interesting take on the 'What if we are all just brains in a vat and none of this is real?' question.
The thing he posed was that if we WERE brains in a vat, would we be able to truthfully SAY that we were? And he rather neatly goes on to say that we could not.
It gets complicated there, but he points out basicallly that just because someone says something it does not necessarily means the person understands what he is saying... crap, I'll have to give examples now...
Right, something a person says can be nonsense, that is obvious. If I all a bed a chair, that is nonsense, because the bed is a bed, not a chair. And if I say the word 'flargenabbleniblick', that is nonsense because there is no such thing.
But the THIRD way to be nonsensical is the important one here. Say there WAS such a thing as a 'flargenabbleniblick' and I just didn't know it, thinking it was a nonsense word. Someone, who did know what it was, coming into the room to hear me say it would think "Ah! He is talking about flargenabbleniblicks!" He might even come over and ask me what my favourite flargenabbleniblick is, and I would be bewildered.
So the point is that although I APPEARED to be making sense to this person, I was actually talking nonsense. I didn't know what a flargenabbleniblick was, I would have used the word whether it existed or not. Putnam called this a lack of 'causal connection'. You cannot use a word meaningfully unless your brain has a causal connection to what the word actually means. So if it turns out that a flargenabbleniblick is actually a type of drink, I cannot have any causal connection to its true meaning until someone tells me that.
ANYWAY. Putnam's point is that a brain in a vat experiencing only simulated happenings has NO causal conneciton to anything in the real world. He has never been there, everything he has seen has been simulated. He might SAY "I am just a brain in a jar" but he has no causal connection to brains, jars, or even, really, 'am'. He could not successfully imagine a real world with brains in jars- would be would be imagining is a simulated world with brains and jars. FOr all he knows, real-world brains might be triangles.
And so it is in The Matrix. No-one in the Matrix has any causal connection in thr real world. As Morpheus says, "No-one can be TOLD what the Matrix is." He is right- for people that have lived in it (people born in Zion could be told any time). Morpheus can explain to Neo all he likes what it is, but Neo's brain is completely incapable of truly understanding what it is until he sees it and experiences 'real' and makes the causal connection. And before that point he could say "I am just a naked body in a pod attached to a computer Matrix'. but his brain won't be thinking of a real body in a real pod. It would be thinking of a computer simulation of a body in a computer simulation of a pod, which is conceptually a different thing. It CANNOT think of a real body in a real pod. It does not know how. It does not even realise that it cannot do it.
Mind you, that is all very interesting but it never struck me as greatly relevant. All Putnam says is that you would not TRULY understand what the real world is like. He doesn't say you could never know that the one you were in was false.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
May 31st, 2003 11:03 AM |
|
|
| |
|
yerssot
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
like the cave of ... (big greek philosopher, forgot his name for a minute)
and
descartes: "je pense, je suis"
|
|
May 31st, 2003 11:22 AM |
|
|
| |
|
mechmoggy
Northern Monkey
 Gender: Male
Location: Changing nappies |
Well I think this is a Matrix cus when I dropped a glass this morning my kitchen floor did a weird rippling thing before the glass broke.
The real question is, "do I want to get out", to which I say no. My life is pretty kewl thanks. 
__________________
|
|
May 31st, 2003 03:11 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
'cogito ergo sum' is the more universal way descartes put it.
But what you have to rememeber about Descartes is that he was a. a mathematician and b. a hardcore Christian, both of which severely biased his thinking.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
May 31st, 2003 03:13 PM |
|
|
| |
|
mechmoggy
Northern Monkey
Gender: Male
Location: Changing nappies |
Holy Calculus!
__________________
|
|
May 31st, 2003 03:16 PM |
|
|
| |
|
alaba
THE ONE
Gender: Unspecified
Location: kent, england. |
what if what we see isnt what truly is? your perception of the color red might be blue to me and maybe the world exists in a universal mind. maybe there's no physical existence but our minds projecting our experiences through our eyes. we touch but really do we touch anything?
__________________
trust only the man upstairs.....
|
|
May 31st, 2003 04:21 PM |
|
|
| |
|
BEST TRINITY
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
We really have to analize our lives coz there is some things that we have to disci=over by ourselfes. We always do what other tell us to do... like Neo with the oracles. Think about it we follows our parents, teachers, neightbors, friends rules, coz this is the way the the persons of ythe past told them to do and they tought us that rules. So.. we r living by the words of the past. who know for surely they were RIGHT????????????????????????????????? HUH????? Maybe we should start to belive what we want to belive about the world....... as we know or wanted to know.
|
|
May 31st, 2003 04:47 PM |
|
|
| |
|
alaba
THE ONE
Gender: Unspecified
Location: kent, england. |
MR KRAZZ, MY NAME IS ALABA, AGENT ALABA, IF YOU ARE PREPARED TO GET THIS SILLY IDEA OF YOUR HEAD THAN WE ARE WILLING TO WIPE THE SLATE CLEAN, GIVE YOU A FRESH START, AND DON'T EVEN DARE TO GIVE ME THE FINGER OR ASK FOR A ****ING PHONE CALL!
__________________
trust only the man upstairs.....
|
|
May 31st, 2003 04:54 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Alaba, go read Descartes' 'Meditations' if you want to read about that. Though if you check we did just cover that subject in detail!
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
May 31st, 2003 05:21 PM |
|
|
| |
|
yerssot
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
finally got the name:
Plato
The cave of plato
think that fits in here nicely
|
|
May 31st, 2003 05:29 PM |
|
|
| |
|
Ushgarak
Paladin
Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK Co-Admin |
Yes, that just got mentioned as well, yerss, two posts before where you forgot his name.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
|
|
May 31st, 2003 05:31 PM |
|
|
| |
|
perceptionist
Junior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Hello all,
I'm at work right now so I haven't had the oppurtunity to read through this whole thread yet. I just wanted to throw a quick 2cents in. In a way, we all exist in a "matrix" so to speak. Not the one from the movie of course but something along those lines. You see, its pretty obvious that everything you know to be "reality" can be broken down into numbers. Binary for example: 1's and zero's, on and off's, yes's and no's, red pills and blue pills. Theres patterns of these numbers, systems of patterns and so on.... I apologize if this all has been said here already. When I get home, I'll have to come back and elaborate. Bad news Krazz, there really is no "escape". Theres arelady "systems" functioning to prevent anyone or anything from surpassing "them." Some may think theres ways, but just like in the movie, its already figured in as part of the "control" system.
All feedback is welcome!
Talk to you guys later (or yesterday.... hehehe.....)
|
|
Jun 3rd, 2003 07:29 AM |
|
|
| |
|
Karma Toreall
Darth Karma
Gender: Male
Location: Indiana |
man you understudy's know more than what i thought.Good job.
__________________
Only The Strong Survive
|
|
Jun 4th, 2003 02:53 AM |
|
|
| |
|
BEST TRINITY
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
yes it is possible
|
|
Jun 4th, 2003 04:23 PM |
|
|
| |
|
The Serpent
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
We definately exist in the Matrix.
... Unless you are one of those people who likes to pretend that they have "free will".
|
|
Jun 4th, 2003 04:36 PM |
|
|
| |
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
Text-only version |
|
|
KMC Community Forums
