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Supernatural Season 11
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Mindset
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Wasn't the Eve in Supernatural the mother of all the different species of monsters including the leviathans from season 6?
She didn't make the leviathans, but she made all the other monsters, at least the alphas.


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2015 05:11 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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The leviathans seemed to hold her in contempt, one even calling her a "whore". With this latest episode it seems like Crowley is starting to realise that he might have bitten off more than he can chew. But what did he expect when it took God, plus at least the 4 archangels we know of, just to imprison her the first time. I keep thinking back to what the one writer said at comic-con about favourites returning in "surprising ways", especially with the laptop acting weird and switching to "fortune nookie" when Castiel was trying to do research. Just feels awful Gabriel-like to me. Or it could be nothing, but the writers rarely put something like that in without reason.


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Old Post Oct 22nd, 2015 08:29 PM
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Mindset
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Gabriel coming back would be one of the best things that could happen.

I still don't believe he let Lucifer kill him.


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Old Post Oct 22nd, 2015 09:35 PM
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MF DELPH
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I hope we get a John appearance. If God comes back and John Winchester is his host body all the bad seasons would be worth it.


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Old Post Oct 22nd, 2015 10:37 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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Nah, we already know Chuck is supposed to be God. They kind of bashed us over the head with it when he narrated the one episode and directly addressed the audience members before and after. Not to mention the fact that there can only be one Prophet at a time (which he initially claimed he was), yet we know he is still around (he shows up during the Fan fiction episode), but that there have also been other prophets, like Kevin.


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 07:09 AM
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MF DELPH
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Are we 100% sure there can only be one prophet at a time though? I realize Castiel said that, but if I remember correctly, Chuck was shown to be alive in the future where Lucifer took Sam as a host body and the Croatoa plague was infecting everyone. I realize that future technically never happened as Lucifer and Michael (and Adam) get locked away, but it was shown. Are we sure that God didn't just resurrect Chuck after Kevin died like he's resurrected Castiel multiple times?


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 12:38 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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Except it'd make no sense for God to just resurrect him again and again when there would be new prophets to take his place. Plus, the whole single prophet thing was part of the one plotline where I think it was still Crowley who was trying to round them all up, in case one of them is the next chosen one. Then there is also this:

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Him literally teleporting from the screen, after finishing writing the one Supernatural "manuscript" and directly talking to the viewer. That's not a power any Prophet I know of has displayed.


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 02:55 PM
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MF DELPH
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See, that's part of the problem with the story. Early on Castiel said that all angels know the names of all the prophets. The instance you're talking about with Crowley torturing an angel to gain all the names of the prophets so he could have the Angel tablet deciphered showed that to be true, and all the angels, Castiel, Raphael, and Zachariah included, knew Chuck as a prophet. Zachariah was even able to give Chuck false visions to set a trap for Sam and Dean. Are you saying that was all just God, who apparenlty was Chuck all along, playing along for effect, and also just playing along in that post apocalyptic future timeline where he was a survivor with Dean and Castiel, or that the real Chuck the Prophet died and passed the prophet mantle along to Kevin while God uses Chuck's body as his vessel after he died?


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 03:30 PM
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Surtur
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I always thought Chuck sort of "ascended" to some higher level, becoming more then just a prophet, which would explain his teleporting away. I know the people behind the show said Chuck was God, but it doesn't actually make any sense for him to 100% of been God. So maybe if Chuck was indeed real and did interact with the Winchesters, but God also took on Chuck's form to provide some extra help.

Since why the hell was God living in the future in a shithole with no toilet paper, or anything? What does God get out of that? It makes no sense. You could at least say God posing as Chuck allows him to help the Winchesters out without them knowing God was helping..since maybe they'd begin to rely on him too much if they knew he was actively helping.

The problem is since he is God you could hand wave all the shit that doesn't make sense with "he works in mysterious ways". But that isn't good enough and doesn't explain why Chuck was in the future shithole Lucifer was in control of.

Also other things with God make no sense like the necklace for tracking God. Why is this an item? He is God, if he doesn't want to be found it won't matter(they even say this) and if he DID want to be found he is God and could just appear to you.

I also refuse to believe God has such low taste he'd f*ck Becky and get involved with her. Strippers are one thing, but no..never Becky.

I was waiting for Crowley to point out to Amara there is no reason to fear God anymore..the dude has left the building.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindset
Gabriel coming back would be one of the best things that could happen.

I still don't believe he let Lucifer kill him.


I don't think he let Lucifer kill him either...most characters killed on this show don't actually sit back and let it happen. Now..if Lucifer is truly the one who taught him all his "tricks" it would be stupid for him to try to use those to kill Lucifer.

On the other hand Sam and Dean have tricked Gabriel on multiple occasions in the past so he's not really the brightest angel out there. I'd actually be curious to see what Kali is up to.


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Last edited by Surtur on Oct 23rd, 2015 at 04:22 PM

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 04:17 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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Well, would it surprise you that much if he was just going along with it for the sake of shits and giggles? He has apparently been dicking around ever since Gadreel let the Serpent into the Garden of Eden.

Besides, there were also instances where the Archangels were specifically trying to hide locations from him, yet he knew them anyway. And if he was God it would probably be well within his power to hide his true nature from others. As previously stated, he has been hiding for ages upon ages and no one in the show has any clue as to where he supposedly is or who he is. Also, he apparently washed his hands of everything, and has been willing to let the world fall into different versions of the Apocalypse numerous times now (Lucifer/Michael, Godstiel, Leviathans etc.). And like I said, it also doesn't explain the season 5 finale, where he displays abilities no other Prophet has ever come close to displaying. That, and all we know about Prophets says there can only be one at a time (anything else is speculation really), yet we know Kevin was the last Prophet.

Look, they never outright state he is God, but they do things to imply it. So it is up to personal interpretation. But for me, based on what we know, Chuck Shurley is the alias he is using to hide on Earth. At least currently. Your idea that he might really have been a former Prophet, but then was taken as God's vessel after he died, because there would already be a naturally strong link there, could certainly be the explanation.


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 04:22 PM
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Surtur
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But to be fair we were never given some in depth look at everything a prophet can or can't do and the show tends to flat out ignore shit they set up.

You know..like "prophets have arch angels protecting them" and Kevin was in danger multiple times without any arch angel showing up, even prior to heaven being locked.

In Supernatural it seems like the rules..aren't really the rules, just guidelines. But it also doesn't explain why he gets shits and giggles from staying in a shitty camp ground with dozens of people? That isn't God trolling anyone that is.well, just not sure what it does. Unless he just really wanted to remind Dean to remember toilet paper if the Apocalypse happens.


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Last edited by Surtur on Oct 23rd, 2015 at 04:28 PM

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 04:25 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
I also refuse to believe God has such low taste he'd f*ck Becky and get involved with her. Strippers are one thing, but no..never Becky.


laughing
Good point. Well, the one way it'd make sense is if we look at MF's idea of Chuck really being a Prophet initially, but later being killed, and then resurrected to be used as God's vessel. But that also doesn't really make sense, because he did the whole teleport thing and shit in season 5, when he was supposed to still be just a Prophet, IIRC. **** it, this show isn't really that consistent in anyways.

On an unrelated note... angels... wtf... when did the average angel become hardly any better than the average foot slogging demon? When Castiel first appeared he was nigh-unstoppable, and now regular humans can trade punches with them sometimes. Hell, Cas' most impressive feat of actual mystical power recently was telekinetically removing a few pins from his head. Crowley does shit like that casually.

Also, would that shitty campground mean anything to him really? He has lived through things like the Black Plague and Abba, so how bad could it get?


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Last edited by TheVaultDweller on Oct 23rd, 2015 at 04:34 PM

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 04:27 PM
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Surtur
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I still think there was probably a real bonafide prophet named Chuck. He was probably murdered for helping the Winchesters and quite possibly by the same angels meant to protect him.

So Chuck is dead and God see's the perfect person to mimic in order to lend a hand. Remember when Chuck had a vision and was intent on telling Sam and Dean and then Zachariah forced him to not say anything? I dunno, feels like that was more Chuck then an actual God.

It also might fit in with God's dickish sense of humor. Remember Chuck thought he was a God when he first met Sam and Dean.

Or it is possible Chuck was indeed a real person, but was killed before Sam and Dean ever met him and God just took his place.


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Last edited by Surtur on Oct 23rd, 2015 at 04:33 PM

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 04:30 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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Well, I don't think we will have a definitive answer either way. The clear implication the writers are trying to create, at least nowadays, is that Chuck is/was God. Whether it was their initial intention, who knows? Remember, the show was actually supposed to end with the stopping of the Apocalypse at season 5, so that last word bit from Chuck, before he teleports away, was originally supposed to be the last words of the show. But in the 5 and a bit seasons since then, they have retconned or changed a ton of things, so who really knows what is going on?

Basically though, the real point I am trying to make is that the chances of getting a Jeffrey Dean Morgan version of God is very very unlikely (even though it'd be great, he's a good actor).


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 04:39 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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But seriously, am I the only one who is bugged by how shit angels have gotten? In earlier seasons, Castiel was able to shatter a heavy stone wall with a light tap, and lift and hold a 1 ton anvil like it was a paper cup. Yet nowadays he can't even KO Dean, even when bloodlusted.


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 05:20 PM
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MF DELPH
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Yeah, they seem to have cut back on a lot of superhuman physical abilities. At least with Castiel they had the excuse of losing his grace and whatnot, but none of the other angels or even Mark of Cain/Demon Dean was very impressive. Things have been watered down since the Leviathans.

I wonder if Rekha Sharma/Kali will ever make another appearance? Wasn't she the only godhead to survive Lucifer's massacre because Gabriel was in love with her and helped her escape?


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Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 07:22 PM
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Surtur
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Personally I just thought it was because there was a part of Castiel that was trying not to kill Dean. Remember Castiel is practically as close to being in love with Dean as he can be without it turning into something gay. But yeah it used to be that a human even punching an angel would hurt like hell.

Also wtf was with that random scene in the latest episode with a random demon and a random angel at a bar talking like friends? It actually made me interested in who they were, but I don't know if it was put there for a grander purpose or just to let us know both heaven and hell were clueless as to how to deal with the Darkness.


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Last edited by Surtur on Oct 23rd, 2015 at 09:20 PM

Old Post Oct 23rd, 2015 09:17 PM
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TheVaultDweller
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur
Personally I just thought it was because there was a part of Castiel that was trying not to kill Dean. Remember Castiel is practically as close to being in love with Dean as he can be without it turning into something gay. But yeah it used to be that a human even punching an angel would hurt like hell.


See, that's the thing exactly. People should be breaking bones (or at least bruising them) punching angels. But a while back there were still those "elite" angels who were supposedly older and stronger than most others, yet in the end fight it was a 3-on-1 way bar room style brawl between it, Sam, Dean and Cas, with the brothers trading multiple punches with it. Dean could still be justified, because he had the Mark at the time, but how is human Sam rocking a millenia old celestial being with straight punches???

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Surtur

Also wtf was with that random scene in the latest episode with a random demon and a random angel at a bar talking like friends? It actually made me interested in who they were, but I don't know if it was put there for a grander purpose or just to let us know both heaven and hell were clueless as to how to deal with the Darkness.


I think it was just to kind of show how everyone was at a loss with how to deal with the Darkness, and to show just how disorganised Heaven and Hell both are right now. I personally think it'd make a sweet Supernatural buddy comedy spinoff though. laughing laughing laughing


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2015 03:20 AM
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TheVaultDweller
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Another random observation on the Chuck is God thing. Humanity was God's favourite creation apparently (at least based on the level of jealousy the angels show towards them, and their attitude of contempt), and the Apocalypse would have been literal Hell on Earth. All the events that occurred, including Chuck's contributions, led to the two key components of said Apocalypse being locked in an inescapable prison. So things turned out just like he wanted in the end. It wouldn't be much of a stretch to believe that he let certain things still happen, if he knew that his end game would remain unaffected. But that is just my personal interpretation.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2015 06:43 AM
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Mindset
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
But seriously, am I the only one who is bugged by how shit angels have gotten? In earlier seasons, Castiel was able to shatter a heavy stone wall with a light tap, and lift and hold a 1 ton anvil like it was a paper cup. Yet nowadays he can't even KO Dean, even when bloodlusted.
Winchesters have superhuman durability.


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Old Post Oct 24th, 2015 08:16 PM
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