This will be a borderline religion/philosophy thread, but I've always approached it in the same spirit as I once did religion, so it feels more at home here.
Joseph Campbell was probably the foremost mythological scholar of the last century. And certainly mythology's primary champion. He was profoundly prolific, but much of his best-known work deals with the unifying themes present throughout religious and philosophical mythology, and how they speak to underlying truths about the human condition. Myths, to him, were and are the spiritual guideposts of our shared experience.
One of my favorite books is Campbell's "Reflections on the Art of Living." Campbell has sometimes come under scholarly criticism for the perception that he homogenizes myths at the expense of remembering their differences (I wholly disagree), and for his occasional predilection for likening mythological meanings to now-debunked psychoanalysis (on this, I agree).
But, to me, his ability to find the transcendent in mythology, to boil down stories to their essence, and to pull from them meaning that can be universally applicable to those of any belief, remains untouched. Those things, then, will be the aim of this thread.
I've somewhat tragically lost my copy of the book, which was marked extensively with notes and highlights from my many readings of it. It may yet be found, but until then I'm left with the internet. So many of these will be shamelessly ripped from a few well-known sources of Campbell quotes.
There isn't a particular talking point or question here. But I hope to regularly update this thread with quotes and ideas, and if any of them inspire you to discussion, feel free to chime in.
And for reference, I plan on eventually starting some discussion or simply adding my thoughts on some of these. It's not just quote spam. But this is just getting us going...
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“Anyone writing a creative work knows that you open, you yield yourself, and the book talks to you and builds itself. To a certain extent, you become the carrier of something that is given to you from what have been called the Muses—or, in biblical language, 'God.' This is no fancy, it is a fact. Since the inspiration comes from the unconscious, and since the unconscious minds of the people of any single small society have much in common, what the shaman or seer brings forth is something that is waiting to be brought forth in everyone. So when one hears the seer’s story, one responds, 'Aha! This is my story. This is something that I had always wanted to say but wasn’t able to say.' There has to be a dialogue, an interaction between the seer and the community.”
“There is a definition of God which has been repeated by many philosophers. God is an intelligible sphere—a sphere known to the mind, not to the senses—whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere. And the center is right where you’re sitting. And the other one is right where I’m sitting. And each of us is a manifestation of that mystery. That’s a nice mythological realization that sort of gives you a sense of who and what you are.”
"The principle of compassion is that which converts disillusionment into a participatory companionship. This is the basic love, the charity, that turns a critic into a living human being who has something to give to––as well as demand of––the world."
Pathways to Bliss
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This one speaks to me in a way, because disillusionment is easy. Being a critic is easy. I've seen it happen slowly - imperceptibly - to people over years and even decades. Some of this we call maturity. Or learning about the realities of the world. But an awareness of realities often comes with a bitterness toward them.
I don't have a magic key for eliminating that bitterness. But even a reminder that our truest, best selves are compassionate participants in the world instead of critical bystanders can be enough to keep one motivated.
That's more of a personal criticism. And one which, frankly, I was unaware of. Still, if his work is profoundly moving, as long as it isn't reflected in his work, that's where I'd prefer to keep the focus. But I did say "scholarly criticism" in the OP. If true, it's unfortunate, but a bit beyond the scope of my intent.
It's also surprising to me. Given the sensitive nature of gender relations today, and the sheer volume that he wrote, there are probably quotes that could be used (twisted?) toward that end. But given some of his writings/lectures on the power of the female and the feminine mode in mythology, it's somewhat shocking to me.
One of my favorite Campbell quotes isn't about myths, though. It's a tangent in a lecture he gave where he talks about having a list of people that he openly and actively hates. He also demonstrates full awareness of this aspect of his personality, and acknowledges it in a self-deprecating manner. He wasn't a saint; just a gifted writer/speaker. If there are warts, I'd happily acknowledge them as flaws while maintaining my love of his work.
Well, if you look at the hero's journey, he doesn't really consider women much as beings with agency, and the two points of the hero's journey where women are involved they exist as Goddesses to be worshipped/protected or as temptresses. Basically the virgin-whore dichotomy.
__________________
“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."
-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.
Yes, but he's talking about mythological archetypes. Where do we draw the line between his elucidation of historical stories and what we consider to be his own beliefs? I'd say he was drawing out a history of shared motifs, not really imposing his own beliefs onto them.
I'm quite sure I could find quotes where he clarifies that the "Hero" is a gender-neutral term. "Hero With a Thousand Faces" was first published in 1949, after all. No one would have batted an eyelash at gender-specific terms in the way we do today.
{edit} not for nothing, I Googled "Joseph Campbell criticism" and scrolled through about 5 pages of headlines. One accusation of Anti-Semitism, several on his work, but nothing on misogyny. Doesn't mean it isn't out there, and I was admittedly only clicking on links that seemed promising, but it seems somewhat buried.
Dug a little deeper into some of the criticism articles. The aforementioned "homogenization" criticism seems the loudest. But it's mentioned that he focuses a lot on stories that feature a male hero, and myths that reinforce this archetype as male-centric.
Even in Hero With a Thousand Faces, he cites dozens of examples that demonstrate that many of these stages on the Hero's Journey are metaphoric. The "Goddess," while often literally a female, is in mythological terms a gift, boon, or other aid to the hero. That it routinely manifests as female in history is at least partially incidental. Same with the Temptress; which, if memory serves, is at least marginally more likely to show up as a devil, serpent, or demon or somesuch in actual myths. It's all reflective of an inner journey, and not mired in strict enough terms to claim gender roles for each stage.
It's also hard to have a representative sample when pulling from ancient myths. Female-centric stories were hard to come by. I consider that less a criticism of his scholarship than the ancient civilizations he catalogs.
I dunno. Maybe there's something to it. Maybe I haven't read the texts that such criticism focuses on. I just have an almost impossible time reconciling that criticism with everything I've read from both his writings and lectures, where a profoundly different man shows up. I consider his work equally applicable to any gender, age, or ethnicity.
"In the poetic mythological systems, the power that one is addressing out there is a magnifying image of the power that's operating in oneself. One's deity is a function of one's own ability to experience and conceive of the divine. It is the reflex of one's own position in the spiritual hierarchy. As the Chāndogya Upanishad puts it about 900 B.C. in India, "Tat tvam asi" (Thou art that"). The mystery of your being is that mystery which you cannot conceive of, which lies beyond the touch of the tongue, and which is metaphorically referred to by the images of your pantheon."
Joseph Campbell, Goddesses: Mysteries of the Feminine Divine, p. 101
"Thinking in mythological terms helps to put you in accord with the inevitables of this vale of tears. You learn to recognize the positive values in what appear to be the negative moments and aspects of your life. The big question is whether you are going to be able to say a hearty yes to your adventure."
"What is it we are questing for? It is the fulfillment of that which is potential in each of us. Questing for it is not an ego trip; it is an adventure to bring into fulfillment your gift to the world, which is yourself. There is nothing you can do that's more important than being fulfilled. You become a sign, you become a signal, transparent to transcendence; in this way you will find, live, become a realization of your own personal myth."
"Now, all these myths that you have heard and that resonate with you, those are the elements from round about that you are building into a form in your life. The thing worth considering is how they relate to each other in your context, not how they relate to something out there – how they were relevant on the North American prairies or in the Asian jungles hundreds of years ago, but how they are relevant now – unless by contemplating their former meaning you can begin to amplify your own understanding of the role they play in your life."
I haven't. And likely won't at this point. I'll rebuy it, but it's a shame. LOTS of notes in that old copy. But this is a good question (I may not be able to do a couple sentences, but I'll try to stay somewhat brief).
I discovered him as I was leaving religion, and he was a former Catholic as well, so there were some commonalities. For me, Campbell's writing reignited the power of shared stories for me. Stripped of its literal meaning, myths, stories, and religious tales could still have immense power to elucidate the universality of the human experience, and provide shorthand bridges to strength, understanding, and acceptance. Great art in numerous genres - music, movies, dance, written and spoken word, many others - can do the same. And it's with the ultimate goal of something that was put well in an earlier quote I posted here, that of living in a way that you're the realization of your own personal myth.
He also taught me the importance of adopting such metaphors into ones own life. I don't believe, well, any religion really. But so many mystic traditions point toward this idea of transcending the daily, materialistic grind of life. You don't need to literally believe in a soul/spirit/etc. to understand that finding a personal way to transcend such cyclical banality can be beneficial.
He pulls from now-outdated psychology too often. And in speaking to universality, he occasionally ignores the cultural and sociological differences in the stories. And he'll usually get reduced by the media as the guy who invented the concept of The Hero's Journey. He may have coined it, but the concept is far older. And it's his best known idea but far from his only one. And, to me, the underlying message(s) in his works are wonderful.
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I realize spamming quotes isn't the best way to handle this topic. But I don't particularly have the patience to be in this forum with any regularity, and it's at least a a sidestep from the usual threads we see here.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
I have a digital copy of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, but have never finished it. I've gotten somewhat out of reading full books, and average only like 1 a year now. A few more with Audiobooks. Maybe you could explain a bit more of the "mystical" aspects that speak to you, the messages in his works you find wonderful?
I think generally not just stories but narratives are so important in our day to day life. Basically everything from politics to work to private life is filled with different narratives that informs decisions and the way we think.
As an aside maybe, not sure you play video games, but if you do, have you played "Journey" on the Playstation 3/4? It's a game very much inspired by the hero's journey. Extra Credits did a video about it at well (with some spoilers).
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Oct 19th, 2015 12:04 AM
