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Blizzard's Overwatch
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Sacred Fire
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Anyone here who plays McCree needs to buy a gun and kill themselves until he is nerfed. thumb down


Or I could just kill the naysayers.

In all seriousness though, why him? There are honestly much worse characters (IMO), and I can't recall any particular problems I've ever had going against him. confused


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 03:13 AM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sacred Fire
Or I could just kill the naysayers.

In all seriousness though, why him? There are honestly much worse characters (IMO), and I can't recall any particular problems I've ever had going against him. confused
He is far and away the best offense character in the game, with only Lucio comparing to him overall.

His standard right click does enough damage to kill almost every non-tank twice over with body shots. It does enough damage to kill Zarya, admittedly the squishiest tank, with one press of the button. He can instantly reload and do it again by rolling. That does enough damage to kill Roadhog with body shots.

He is so strong that professional teams run multiple McCrees. Because why would you use Reaper or Soldier 76 when you could just have another McCree?

Who do you think is worse?


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 06:50 AM
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Sacred Fire
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
He is far and away the best offense character in the game, with only Lucio comparing to him overall.

His standard right click does enough damage to kill almost every non-tank twice over with body shots. It does enough damage to kill Zarya, admittedly the squishiest tank, with one press of the button. He can instantly reload and do it again by rolling. That does enough damage to kill Roadhog with body shots.

He is so strong that professional teams run multiple McCrees. Because why would you use Reaper or Soldier 76 when you could just have another McCree?

Who do you think is worse?


I'm not sure what you mean by that considering they're completely different classes.

I don't have it on PC, so I'm not sure what right click functions as (primary or secondary fire). Could you please elaborate? For now, I'll assume you mean secondary fire. In which case, I can see your point, but at the same time I've never really struggled against it.

I won't argue that these characters are worse from a technical or "professional" standpoint, but I've had much worse personal experiences (a few of which featured McCree) with Bastion, Torbjorn, and Tracer. I'm sure just from that you can already guess what they had in common.

Either way, I understand what you're saying. I guess we just don't share it as a problem.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 07:44 AM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sacred Fire
I'm not sure what you mean by that considering they're completely different classes.

I don't have it on PC, so I'm not sure what right click functions as (primary or secondary fire). Could you please elaborate? For now, I'll assume you mean secondary fire. In which case, I can see your point, but at the same time I've never really struggled against it.

I won't argue that these characters are worse from a technical or "professional" standpoint, but I've had much worse personal experiences (a few of which featured McCree) with Bastion, Torbjorn, and Tracer. I'm sure just from that you can already guess what they had in common.

Either way, I understand what you're saying. I guess we just don't share it as a problem.
By overall, I meant that even ignoring class differences, only Lucio rivals McCree in overall power.

Yes, it's his fan the hammer. Its damage is frankly insanely ridiculous, considering how unconditional and easy it is to land. A flashbang > fan the hammer > combat roll > fan the hammer kills any character in the game with no counter play. It does too much damage. Nerfplz.

Bastion is pretty easy to deal with once you learn how to counter him. Genji hard counters him, Pharah ****s with him, snipers eat him alive, Roadhog easily singles him out and kills him, etc. Bastion needs a lot of support to stay alive to put out his DPS.

McCree's fan the hammer needs a huge nerf. There is no reason it has to do so much damage it can literally kill any non-tank hero with a single press of a button.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 08:49 AM
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Nephthys
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Its not too bad. Hanzo can kill 2 people at once with his scattershot from max health.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 12:27 PM
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Zack Fair
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I dislike nerfs.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 02:19 PM
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Sacred Fire
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
By overall, I meant that even ignoring class differences, only Lucio rivals McCree in overall power.

Yes, it's his fan the hammer. Its damage is frankly insanely ridiculous, considering how unconditional and easy it is to land. A flashbang > fan the hammer > combat roll > fan the hammer kills any character in the game with no counter play. It does too much damage. Nerfplz.

Bastion is pretty easy to deal with once you learn how to counter him. Genji hard counters him, Pharah ****s with him, snipers eat him alive, Roadhog easily singles him out and kills him, etc. Bastion needs a lot of support to stay alive to put out his DPS.

McCree's fan the hammer needs a huge nerf. There is no reason it has to do so much damage it can literally kill any non-tank hero with a single press of a button.


Okay, but I'm still not sure how. Quite frankly, Zenyatta seems more powerful (offensively anyways) than Lucio. I've dropped tanks and non- with near the same efficiency you describe for McCree. I can't say the same for Lucio.

Then yeah, I definitely understand what you mean. I wouldn't say it needs a HUGE nerf, but speaking from experience, he probably shouldn't be able to shred Winston that easily. Then again, he has a similar problem with Reaper, which is only fair really, and I've still managed to deal with both of them despite that. Though, as far as counterplay is concerned, I figure Zarya counters the f**k out of it. Barrier yourself or an assailed ally and he's left with little other choice but to feed you damage or back off.

Yeah, I figured that out. It was just f**king annoying doing so. It just seems like such a ***** move on his part, and I kinda feel bad saying that considering it seems like practically the only thing he's good at.

Overall, he may or may not get nerfed, but I don't think it would be too significant. I think they've actually done a great job for the most part balancing the roster.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not too bad. Hanzo can kill 2 people at once with his scattershot from max health.


This is true.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 02:25 PM
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Zack Fair
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Thing about Mcree and Lucio is they are easy to use effectively IMO. Dat Y Lucio so good. You literally run next to people and cure dem just by being next to dem

If they nerf fan the hammer they better buff something else.


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Last edited by Zack Fair on Jun 7th, 2016 at 02:30 PM

Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 02:28 PM
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Sacred Fire
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Thing about Mcree and Lucio is they are easy to use effectively IMO. Dat Y Lucio so good. You literally run next to people and cure dem just by being next to dem

If they nerf fan the hammer they better buff something else.


On the latter, we agree. That's what I mean by describing the roster as being generally well balanced. For every area someone excels, there's inevitably another where they're kind of f**led. That is to say taking anything away while giving nothing back in this game would basically render them impotent.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 03:12 PM
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Tzeentch
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Even if the damage of Fan the Hammer got an insane nerf like half it's original damage, McCree would still be a powerful hero with no real drawbacks- he just wouldn't be as clearly a step above all the other offensive heroes.

In any case, Blizz has stated that they're essentially only lowering its damage enough that he can't shred tanks. He still has his flashbang and he'll still be able to burst down any =< 200 health character in the game.


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Last edited by Tzeentch on Jun 7th, 2016 at 06:00 PM

Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 05:46 PM
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Inhuman
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Meh.

I dont run with pro MLG pre made groups but McCree doesnt bother me.
If he is on the opposing team he probably gets 1 or 2 stun fan kills on me the whole game. He is easy to counter. He is only effective if he gets close.

If im Widowmaker, he is basically a free easy kill.
Pharah destroys him from the air.
Junkrat keeps him at bay pretty easy.
Raodhog owns him with his auto aim hook and shotgun to face
A good Soldier76 can out mid-range him.
Genji deflects his flash bang.


McCree is only effective if you dont see him coming. He almost becomes a non factor with a widow on your team. With her picking him off easy or with her Ult , letting you know where he is.

Also his ULT is probably tied for worst in the game. Its pretty much useless in every situation besides playing against noobs.
Once he hits it , the whole opposing team either hides from it because they have plenty of time to do so. Or mow him down before he gets the skull icons on more than 1 person.

I dont really give a fuq if they nerf him but as it stands he doesnt bother me too much and is easy to deal with if you dont play like a retard. Maybe this is more of an issue in the MLG circuit. I think maybe just add more cooldown time to his stun.
lol he will be even more useless (beside the sneak on you kills) with a shitty ULT.

The shit that does bother me is Hanzos bullshit arrow hitbox. That needs to be fixed stat.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 07:00 PM
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Zack Fair
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I saw the hitbox on dat arrow and its dumb.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 08:13 PM
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Newjak
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Love this game. I main Reinhardt


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 08:55 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sacred Fire
Okay, but I'm still not sure how. Quite frankly, Zenyatta seems more powerful (offensively anyways) than Lucio. I've dropped tanks and non- with near the same efficiency you describe for McCree. I can't say the same for Lucio.


He is, but who gives a ****? You don't take a support for their damage, and Zenyatta is bar none the worst support. He is probably the easiest hero to kill in the game, with only 150 health while also being extremely slow. Only Tracer has that little health (well so does D.Va outside of her mech), and she benefits from having extremely high mobility and a get out of jail free card.

You can legitimately kill Zenyatta with a single full power body shot from Widowmaker, and considering how slow he is it isn't hard to do so.

quote:
Then yeah, I definitely understand what you mean. I wouldn't say it needs a HUGE nerf, but speaking from experience, he probably shouldn't be able to shred Winston that easily. Then again, he has a similar problem with Reaper, which is only fair really, and I've still managed to deal with both of them despite that. Though, as far as counterplay is concerned, I figure Zarya counters the f**k out of it. Barrier yourself or an assailed ally and he's left with little other choice but to feed you damage or back off.


Reaper can 1v1 Winston, but he can't easily burst him down with a full rotation like McCree can. Nor can he stun him to keep him from escaping.

Zarya is probably the only hero that can't be 1v1 bursted down by McCree without any real thought on his part (well, he has to angle his flash bang over Reinhardt's shield to hit him) if her shield is up. But he can still literally 100-0 her with a single fan the hammer. He can literally 100-0 a tank (even if she is the squishiest tank) with a single button press that isn't his ultimate. I can't think of a single other hero that can do that.

quote:
Yeah, I figured that out. It was just f**king annoying doing so. It just seems like such a ***** move on his part, and I kinda feel bad saying that considering it seems like practically the only thing he's good at.

Overall, he may or may not get nerfed, but I don't think it would be too significant. I think they've actually done a great job for the most part balancing the roster.


He is getting nerf, confirmed. Because he's far and away the best offense, to the extent that there is little real value in picking other offense heroes when you could just have another McCree on your team. He is a hero with no weaknesses.

quote:
This is true.
Hanzo is bad though, and doing that is far less reliable than using your secondary fire on McCree.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 09:21 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Thing about Mcree and Lucio is they are easy to use effectively IMO. Dat Y Lucio so good. You literally run next to people and cure dem just by being next to dem

If they nerf fan the hammer they better buff something else.
Lucio is too good because he has more utility than any other support.

He has:
- decent damage for a support with his main gun
- A knockback on his secondary fire
- A speed buff aura and a healing aura on a toggle, sharing one ability
- The ability to increase the effectiveness of those auras
- Very solid mobility for a support
- The highest survivability for a support
- A huge team-wide shield buff with his ultimate that makes trying to team fight his team nearly impossible

He's just a champion who has no real weaknesses for his class, and quite a few strengths.

He's not as bad as McCree because there is at least more value in picking other supports like Mercy or, depending on the situation, Symmetra (though I'd want to have a healer on my team if Symmetra was there regardless), but it's a matter of his kit being inherently powerful.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 09:36 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Inhuman
Meh.

I dont run with pro MLG pre made groups but McCree doesnt bother me.
If he is on the opposing team he probably gets 1 or 2 stun fan kills on me the whole game. He is easy to counter. He is only effective if he gets close.


If he is so easy to counter, why do players who are considerably better than you, me, or anyone we play with having so much trouble doing so when he's played at a high level that they choose to run multiple McCrees, rather than another offensive hero?

Also, you might be confusing McCree for Reaper. Reaper is only effective if he gets close. McCree's primary fire is accurate and powerful from medium to long range.

quote:
If im Widowmaker, he is basically a free easy kill.


Every non-tank is a free kill if they are out in the open and you land your head shot (you have to head shot McCree to kill him in one shot). Do not confuse me stating (correctly) that McCree is overpowered means that he is invincible. He has weaknesses inherent to the offense class, but all offense heroes have those weaknesses. He has no significant weaknesses specific to him, except I guess a relative lack of mobility.

quote:
Pharah destroys him from the air.


Pharah is one of the most predictable characters in the game. Her flight makes her very easy to shoot out of the sky, and she can do no damage if you are in cover, unless she wants to walk into the building and try to man fight McCree. Which would be a bad idea.

quote:
Junkrat keeps him at bay pretty easy.


If McCree were trying to force himself through a choke point

quote:
Raodhog owns him with his auto aim hook and shotgun to face


If he lands it from far range, McCree isn't stunned by the time he gets next to Roadhog and he proceeds to flashbang > fan the hammer > roll > fan the hammer if he's good, killing the Roadhog.

If it's close range... well I mean, flash bang is much easier to land than the hook, and comes out faster.

quote:
A good Soldier76 can out mid-range him.


Probably, but McCree dominates him long or short range. Funnily enough, the damage fall-off by range on Soldier 76's assault rifle is higher than McCree's pistol. McCree's pistol is also more accurate.

quote:
Genji deflects his flash bang.


Just throw it at his feet you shitter. The fun thing about McCree's flashbang is that there's no skill required. You don't need to actually hit it. If it explodes in front of him it still stuns him.

quote:
McCree is only effective if you dont see him coming. He almost becomes a non factor with a widow on your team. With her picking him off easy or with her Ult , letting you know where he is.


Nah, sorry bud, but you play with shitters and probably are one yourself. I also shit on most McCrees, because most McCrees are dumb shitters, because most people are dumb shitters. He's still the best offense hero in the game, and one of the best heroes in general.

quote:
Also his ULT is probably tied for worst in the game. Its pretty much useless in every situation besides playing against noobs.


It's not among the best like Lucio, Symmetra, or Zarya's ults, but it can still zone an entire team and can be used to quickly pick off one or two people.

quote:
Once he hits it , the whole opposing team either hides from it because they have plenty of time to do so. Or mow him down before he gets the skull icons on more than 1 person.

I dont really give a fuq if they nerf him but as it stands he doesnt bother me too much and is easy to deal with if you dont play like a retard. Maybe this is more of an issue in the MLG circuit. I think maybe just add more cooldown time to his stun.
lol he will be even more useless (beside the sneak on you kills) with a shitty ULT.


Are you actually implying that you think that McCree is useless right now, lol?

quote:
The shit that does bother me is Hanzos bullshit arrow hitbox. That needs to be fixed stat.



He's already one of the weaker heroes in the game, being essentially just a shittier version of Widowmaker. As wonky as that hitbox is, he needs buff before he needs nerfs.


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Last edited by NemeBro on Jun 7th, 2016 at 10:03 PM

Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 09:59 PM
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Inhuman
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
If he is so easy to counter, why do players who are considerably better than you, me, or anyone we play with having so much trouble doing so when he's played at a high level that they choose to run multiple McCrees, rather than another offensive hero?

Also, you might be confusing McCree for Reaper. Reaper is only effective if he gets close. McCree's primary fire is accurate and powerful from medium to long range.



Every non-tank is a free kill if they are out in the open and you land your head shot (you have to head shot McCree to kill him in one shot). Do not confuse me stating (correctly) that McCree is overpowered means that he is invincible. He has weaknesses inherent to the offense class, but all offense heroes have those weaknesses. He has no significant weaknesses specific to him, except I guess a relative lack of mobility.



Pharah is one of the most predictable characters in the game. Her flight makes her very easy to shoot out of the sky, and she can do no damage if you are in cover, unless she wants to walk into the building and try to man fight McCree. Which would be a bad idea.



If McCree were trying to force himself through a choke point



If he lands it from far range, McCree isn't stunned by the time he gets next to Roadhog and he proceeds to flashbang > fan the hammer > roll > fan the hammer if he's good, killing the Roadhog.

If it's close range... well I mean, flash bang is much easier to land than the hook, and comes out faster.



Probably, but McCree dominates him long or short range. Funnily enough, the damage fall-off by range on Soldier 76's assault rifle is higher than McCree's pistol. McCree's pistol is also more accurate.



Just throw it at his feet you shitter. The fun thing about McCree's flashbang is that there's no skill required. You don't need to actually hit it. If it explodes in front of him it still stuns him.



Nah, sorry bud, but you play with shitters and probably are one yourself. I also shit on most McCrees, because most McCrees are dumb shitters, because most people are dumb shitters. He's still the best offense hero in the game, and one of the best heroes in general.



It's not among the best like Lucio, Symmetra, or Zarya's ults, but it can still zone an entire team and can be used to quickly pick off one or two people.



Are you actually implying that you think that McCree is useless right now, lol?



He's already one of the weaker heroes in the game, being essentially just a shittier version of Widowmaker. As wonky as that hitbox is, he needs buff before he needs nerfs.


Just cause I dont run with L33t MLG pre made groups doesnt mean im a shitter kek. Maybe I am though but he certainly doesnt bother me enough to join all the nerf fegs crying about him.
If they nerf him great. No biggie. If they dont then he will be a minor nuisance to those that can counter him most of the time besides the lucky 1 or 2 sneaky flash bang kills he gets on me.

Funny I seen some [email protected] try to go 5 McCrees one time and my team went all Winston besides me and we totally wrecked the McCrees.
1 Bastion ( even though its a shit tactic) was enough to stop the MCrees as well in the last point.

And yes his ULT is shit when youre playing with non-Noobs.
When you have all 12 players wreking shit in the last capture point and both teams are @ 99% and its overtime. McCrees ult is useless. he gets destroyed in seconds when everyone hears "Its High Noon".

Only effective McCree is the one hiding waiting for opportunities. Either waiting to surprise with his flash bang or hiding and shooting his left click from afar.
Which means he isnt contributing to the objective.
Im not saying he is not powerful, he is. But he can be countered just like every other character in the game. I think he may need some tweaks but I dont think he is broken to the point of the massive whining going on about him.
Almost always if a McCree gets 1 flash bang hammer kill on them they start whining about it all game. Its like MCcree isnt suppose to kill them not even once, let alone with his flash bang.lol. Because that is just too much and he is soo overpowered because he got 1 lucky flash bang shit on them.

IDC if the y nerf him. I play him on occasion. Not religiously.

Hanzo actually merits a nerf to the arrow hit boxes. So many videos pointing this out. Where people are behind a wall and he still kills then with a regular (non burst) arrow by shooting the corner of the doorway.


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Last edited by Inhuman on Jun 7th, 2016 at 10:27 PM

Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 10:19 PM
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Zack Fair
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I agree on hanzo needing the dumb hitbox to compete.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 11:21 PM
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Inhuman
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I think McCree needs some tweaking as well , just that I think other players need tweaks too.


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Old Post Jun 7th, 2016 11:32 PM
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Tzeentch
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The arrows don't have a large hit-box, and his arrows aren't the only weapons in the game that interact with targets that way.

All characters in the game have larger headshot hitboxes when hit by projectile weapons, and smaller headshot hit-boxes when hit by hitscan weapons. This is a deliberate balance design made by Blizzard, to compensate for hitscan weapons having no travel-time compared to projectile weapons, which do.


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Last edited by Tzeentch on Jun 8th, 2016 at 12:21 AM

Old Post Jun 8th, 2016 12:18 AM
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